Daddy...Where does God come from?

Originally posted by orionthehunter
The answer to the question "Daddy...Where does God come from?"

God was around before everything else and it was a really boring and lonely place. There was nothing happening anywhere. It was very boring. Then suddenly God got a brilliant idea to create beings like him not as powerful of course but ones that could learn and create things using their own ideas. These people would need a place to live so he had to create a planet. The planet needed heat so he had to create a star. The star needed other stars or the universe would be very empty so God went all out and created billions of other star systems and billions of other groups to put the systems into. These stars and billions of other star systems would allow the people to develop vast galactic civilizations after millions of years. The plan seemed brilliant. He would need beings to oversee his creation so he created angels to watch over things.

One of the angels didn't like all of God's plans. He had a falling out with the boss. He thought he could run the show alot better. God wanted to prove this disgruntled employee was wrong so the experiment began. Satan was put in charge of the Earth and had a limited time to prove his way would work better. God would only intervene when absolutely necessary or by requests he deemed worthy. and here we are stuck in this experiment.

That was cool .

Oh Ikku ye of little faith. Has thou stray from thou religion?

It was never my religion to begin with, it was my mother's religion. I'm still in a largely Christian, mostly Catholic environment, most of my friends are Catholic or some form of Christian. I'm rather singled out in this respect.

Originally posted by saint4God
The gods don't really care about them, they do as they will and oh what tragedy when people are involved in plans.

According to the Greeks, the gods took a huge interest in mortal affairs and in fact envied humans (self-interest fabricated by the Greeks, it doesn't make much sense). The gods were always giving something or taking something from them, and I really wouldn't say they didn't care about them. Someone had to make sure their ships stayed on course, they had good harvests, the sun would rise every day. The gods favored certain peoples in times of war, they chose their side and did everything they would to help them. I wouldn't call Greek mythology grim, it was more heroic and all in all rather interesting.

So no, I don't see God and the gods behaving differently.

Hold up. What religion are you claiming is older than God?

I didn't claim any religion is older than God, but there are religions older than Christianity and Judaism. The creation myths and stories in the Old Testament were not the first of their kind and in fact borrowed heavily from other cultures. So why are they more substantial than the myths written before them?

Finally, you'd have to successfully argue the reasoning/advice behind the Bible is not what is best for humanity. This mission would be a huge undertaking.

I have no problem with the Bible's teachings as far as morality is concerned. I don't even have a problem with it giving hope of a next life. But I do NOT like the idea that a large population of the world is willing to just give up everything to God and let him sort it out when I don't think he's coming. They say they see the signs of the end times, I say it's a self-fulfilling prophesy. It wouldn't be the end times if you did something about it, but they say that God will save the believers, there's no reason to worry. But there is reason to worry, just what if you're wrong? What if Jesus isn't coming, what if you end up stopping everything in anticipation and he misses the bus so to speak? That can't be a good move on humanity's part.

This is hard for me to argue because I'm not on one side of the Christian viewpoint or the other. There are those who say God knows exactly when and where we will screw up and uses those experiences as a teaching tool...then there's the other house that says he set the universe in motion, manages the big picture and smacks us around when we get out of line. Which one is it? I don't know. Both sound pretty convincing to me.

So the only good answer is that God doesn't have a plan with every detail set in stone or he would not be displeased. Even so, he still can't be displeased because he's omniscient. A creator displeased with his creation does not work if the creator is omniscient. He would've seen it coming, he would know that it would displease him, and because he's omnipotent, he would be able to change it before it ever got to that. There's no reason for him to be displeased at all.

Again, 'compellling them to' sounds to me a bit like mind control. I think any way he does it, he has to do it in a way we can understand it.

Who says it has to make sense? You can't put limitations on an omnipotent being. He doesn't break free will, but that's not a limitation, he can go around it. It does sound like mind control. But somehow he should be able to get around the free will problem and at the same time be able to uphold this law he set himself. Do not expect me to tell you how exactly, it's irrelevant, he can do it.

How do you guys do it? -snip- I pray to God, in the name of Jesus, and get results.

Interesting, but this is a moot point to argue, it has no real meaning to me, it's a subject that should be argued amongst those to whom it matters. Christians can debate amongst themselves, I don't care, it happens with science. Doesn't make the point invalid. I'm not going to accept it, but hey, you can't save everybody, right?

Good night.

Saint,
I wasnt offended, it just would have bothered me, if I hadnt put the correction (thats just one of the ways my mind works.

As for proof, well I can prove or disprove alot with science, if their is a deity or soul I'm more inclined to believe its either more akin to Buudhism, or as I use to believe before I was an Atheist, that a deity created the Universe, Multiverse etc., but does not interfeer with our lives, and could probably care less if we pray to it or believe in it.

Well all I know is that I would rather believe in God and heaven then a Godless universe where our exhistance doesnt matter. I dont think that every word in the bible should be took literally. Although I do believe in Genesis. Let there be light=Big Bang. Evolution=7 days to create the earth. I think when they said He created the reptiles he was talkin about dinosaurs. Thats just what I think.

[edit on 22-1-2005 by Croat56]

ok i believe that god is or was pure energy (before the big bang) and inteliigent enough to "manipulate" his own energy which leaves us with one thing energy was around before time so there was no creator of god it just is and thats somthing we have to execpt unless...

...the universe has too "little" mass then it would collapse back into itself like a ripple on an intergalactic water this would mean time exists and after a while just does'nt but this is not the same for the energy or "god" because it would have to exist there in the begining so in short god just is

Originally posted by Ikku
According to the Greeks, the gods took a huge interest in mortal affairs and in fact envied humans (self-interest fabricated by the Greeks, it doesn't make much sense). The gods were always giving something or taking something from them, and I really wouldn't say they didn't care about them. Someone had to make sure their ships stayed on course, they had good harvests, the sun would rise every day. The gods favored certain peoples in times of war, they chose their side and did everything they would to help them. I wouldn't call Greek mythology grim, it was more heroic and all in all rather interesting.

Alright, but don't they play heavily on unavoidable fate, luck, and celestrial wars amoungst themselves? With such turbulence above, how can that not effect earth below? The mythos I'd read were either victory (not to be confused with happiness) or tragedy (and there seem to be a ship-load of that). Most of the time small victory, then big tragedy. Hardly a library of triumphs in the human spirit and moral understanding. So much so, from what I understand, these legends were phased out because logic and reasoning had much more to offer than the defeatist attitude towards the 'will of the gods'. I'm not saying there weren't some bright spots, but don't know what history book recounts a success of Greek mythology nor a positive impact on the people of that time.

Originally posted by Ikku
So no, I don't see God and the gods behaving differently.

I don't think I'm the one that can change your mind on it. I think that's one of the benefits of the Bible. It gives insight into God's character.

Originally posted by Ikku
I didn't claim any religion is older than God,

Thank you. Judiasm is said to have started at God. Christianity also the case.

Originally posted by Ikku
I have no problem with the Bible's teachings as far as morality is concerned. I don't even have a problem with it giving hope of a next life. But I do NOT like the idea that a large population of the world is willing to just give up everything to God and let him sort it out when I don't think he's coming.

What is a person who believes in God giving up?

Originally posted by Ikku
They say they see the signs of the end times, I say it's a self-fulfilling prophesy. It wouldn't be the end times if you did something about it, but they say that God will save the believers, there's no reason to worry. But there is reason to worry, just what if you're wrong?

Then what was lost? I can tell you what would be gained if right though.

Originally posted by Ikku
What if Jesus isn't coming, what if you end up stopping everything in anticipation and he misses the bus so to speak? That can't be a good move on humanity's part.

Accepting his words on love and wisdom not a good move? Hm...

Originally posted by Ikku
So the only good answer is that God doesn't have a plan with every detail set in stone or he would not be displeased. Even so, he still can't be displeased because he's omniscient. A creator displeased with his creation does not work if the creator is omniscient. He would've seen it coming, he would know that it would displease him, and because he's omnipotent, he would be able to change it before it ever got to that. There's no reason for him to be displeased at all.

This is a good argument used also by Christians who say this is all a demonstration for us to learn and grow from and knew well in advance we'd disappoint him. The counter I've heard is that he intentionally set up a way to 'not see' the outcome or minute variables. Which it is, again, I don't know. Both sound convincing to me. God only knows.

Again, 'compellling them to' sounds to me a bit like mind control. I think any way he does it, he has to do it in a way we can understand it.

Originally posted by Ikku
Who says it has to make sense? You can't put limitations on an omnipotent being. He doesn't break free will, but that's not a limitation, he can go around it. It does sound like mind control. But somehow he should be able to get around the free will problem and at the same time be able to uphold this law he set himself. Do not expect me to tell you how exactly, it's irrelevant, he can do it.

Okay. I'll buy that. Don't let me be the one to say God can't do something. I can say a lot of what He does do however, makes a whole lotta sense.

I pray to God, in the name of Jesus, and get results.

Originally posted by Ikku
Interesting, but this is a moot point to argue, it has no real meaning to me, it's a subject that should be argued amongst those to whom it matters. Christians can debate amongst themselves, I don't care, it happens with science. Doesn't make the point invalid. I'm not going to accept it, but hey, you can't save everybody, right?

I can't save anybody. That's not my job. The only thing I can do is direct people to He who can.

Originally posted by Ikku
Good night.

Take care.


[edit on 24-1-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by iori_komei
Saint,
I wasnt offended, it just would have bothered me, if I hadnt put the correction (thats just one of the ways my mind works.

Cool

Originally posted by iori_komei
...that a deity created the Universe, Multiverse etc., but does not interfeer with our lives, and could probably care less if we pray to it or believe in it.

Depressing. We don't matter? Hm...

[edit on 24-1-2005 by saint4God]

Oh we matter. If we didnt matter to him then he wouldnt have sent his only son to save us. He is also now sending Mary to various places doing miracles that cure incurable diseases and make the parilized walk. For we are his creation and when you create something you dont just abandond it.

I didnt find it very depressing when I believed it, infact I'd be sad if there was a god that interfered or cared about us.