Study of Tongues in the New Testament

a reply to: intrptr
So we can have a difference of opinion on the word of God and still respect each other?

I believe it is true and preserve (ps12:6,7), by it, it teaches the simple Psalm 119) and instructs the wise(proverbs).

God's words are spirit and truth and none of them shall fail. It is the word of God that will judge all the thoughts and intents of a man. (Hebrews 4:12).

a reply to: intrptr
If that be true then why even get involved in a bible study thread?

Unless you are only doing it to disrupt it. That would be disrespectful to those who would be interested in it.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
You know you're putting the pearls before swine here, right? Trying to teach us heathens something that can only be understood if your steeped in church doctrine and theology, as well as more than familiar with scripture. Nevertheless, nice try.

I've always found tongues to be an interesting topic. If we remove Paul's teachings from the topic as some would suggest, it becomes much simpler and clearer, to be sure. However, that doesn't mean it's correct. If we take Paul at his word, things become a bit more complicated, but something else comes through. Speaking from a biblical perspective for a moment, the "selfish" use of tongues becomes not so selfish.

Paul says we don't always know how to pray, therefore we can be/are given utterance, whether we are praying for ourselves, or someone else. This means the prayer is now coming from the heart, instead of the intellect. Which for the Christian especially, is something to be desired, since it is the heart that God deals with, more so than the intellect. So from the Christian's perspective, tongues are an indispensable gift or blessing for their personal prayers.

In a nutshell. I'll leave it there. Wouldn't want to sound preachy.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

The first section there is what I have always understood "speaking in tongues" to mean -
that the speaker is understood by everyone - that the words come across in the language of the listener, and everyone hears their own language when the utterances are made.

It does NOT mean speaking gibberish.

I agree with you there.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Do you have anything positive to add to this thread?

Personally, I believe the account of those speaking in tongues in the Book of Acts is made up nonsense.

This is what is what is meant when one talks of "speaking in tongues".

Matthew 10:19
But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs
This is actually a human thing, more than anything else. You're a mother. How many times did one of your children say something when they were little, and to everyone else it sounded like gibberish, but to you it was plain as day what that baby was saying?

The idea of tongues is less of a biblical phenomena, and more of a heart/subconscious phenomena. It's the language of the heart that can't be spoken with intelligible words, but can only be uttered in sounds that vaguely express what is being felt. To the credit of the biblical writers, and others throughout history, they understood the marriage of thought and emotion as a coherent communication that was beyond words, yet was still understandable by others on a level the conscious mind was unable to grasp. The fact that it is hidden in plain sight in the bible is a testament to the bible's metaphysical and gnostic foundations, and should be read from that perspective. IMHO.

This is what happened to me, not sure how it all fits, but

I was raised a Jehovah Witness, and I realized they were a cult about 21 yrs old. I started praying, and begging for an answer. I truly thought my 3 children would die at Armageddon. So, one night I said, OK God if your big enough to make this earth, your big enough to tell me who your are. And in that moment I started speaking in tongues. I didnt know what was going on. I also had a life review which caused me to fall on my face and beg him for forgiveness for being such a worm. I didnt understand what was happening, all I knew is the more I let the tongues flow, the less of a worm I felt. I think the Holy Spirit prayed for me using my body.

I did not know what happened to me, and started searching the bible for answers and praying. A few days later a man showed up at my house super early in the morning, and handed me a list of scriptures, he said he was woke up in the middle of the night by an Angel and was told to write them down, and was again told to stop at my house to give them to me on his way to work. All the scriptures were about tongues and being born again, I had never heard the term born again. There is of course a lot more to the story, but that is what happened to me.

Just as a side note, my life review was not about sin, it was about hurting people. I felt everything I had made other feel in my life.

As a Jehovah Witness, I had never heard of being Born Again. And thought speaking in tongues was from the devil, so you can understand how baffled I was by the experience.

That was almost 40 years ago, I went through all the religions looking for the right one, Guess what there arent any! The kingdom is within us. Im not a churchy bible thumping christian. In fact sometimes I question if I am a christian or not. However, I do believe there is a Holy Spirit that will lead you and guide you into all truth, no matter what religion you choose.

a reply to: Klassified

It is ok Klassi the word of God is powerful. But there are those who would be interested.

a reply to: windword
Ok so basically you don't believe the Bible except where you choose to believe it.

I can live with that.

a reply to: Klassified
Paul we saying it was done not as a spiritual level speaking to to other men, but to God alone and that it was unprofitable to the church to practice the unknown tongue. Read the Third section of the outline.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: windword
Ok so basically you don't believe the Bible except where you choose to believe it.

I can live with that.

No. I mean the Bible isn't meant to be taken literally, including the Book of Acts. That doesn't mean that I can't agree with some of its content.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Dont believe anything Paul said. He circumvented everything Jesus practiced. He took it upon himself to "Christianize" the Jewish faith. He was in direct conflict with the early church, especially with James the brother of Jesus. Anyone seeking truth needs to remember that the Catholics decided which Holy books were allowed into the canon of Scripture, and they only allowed what fit their agenda. Pauls teachings fell right in line with them and that is the only reason most of the new testament are the writings of Paul.

There is very little historical record of Jesus, but there is quite a lot on his brother James. Jesus was an Essene, and so was James. They were not Christians, they didnt teach Christianity. They were practicing Jews.

Google Professor Robert Eisenman and the dead sea scrolls. He is the man that made the dead sea scrolls public, by smuggling pictures out and publishing them. He also wrote the book James the brother of Jesus. Huge work, but there are online interviews that will blow you away with the historical information.

Speaking in tongues is a natural occurrence that happen when the brain get over energized and part of the unconscious is allowed to play around with speech center/sound center.

Some souls can spend hours creating music using an energized creative side. Naturally speaking in tongues is normally a sign of increased body awareness and third eye abilities. The abilities that can be used to connect with the divine that some religions do not want people to use because it will give them the objective truth about the religions.

a reply to: Klassified

You're a mother. How many times did one of your children say something when they were little, and to everyone else it sounded like gibberish, but to you it was plain as day what that baby was saying?

That different. Laughter and crying, even bird song are 'language' , too.

Don't need a translator to understand it. Human song is a language, music, art, theatre, all languages we don't need interpreters to understand.

Unless you're the kind that seeks signs in everything. Or promotes them to generate a 'mystery'.

originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: windword
Ok so basically you don't believe the Bible except where you choose to believe it.

I can live with that.

No. I mean the Bible isn't meant to be taken literally, including the Book of Acts. That doesn't mean that I can't agree with some of its content.

Not only but if you've ever played telephone, the secrets game, you understand that some people alter the historical record to suit their own agendas.

Lot of agendas down through the ages.

The secret is to learn how the people that found the wisdom to write things down found that wisdom. Otherwise we're just regurgitating others interpretations.

Speaking in tongues symbolizes the confusing language that the church speaks, language and concepts that have no basis in reality and only confuse people.

2 Peter 3
16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

This is talking about Paul and how what he says is hard to understand. Paul speaks in tongues that can easily be misinterpreted as meaning something they do not mean which is why there are so many sects of Christianity today. The church does not speak clearly, only in vague ways in order to cause confusion.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: ChesterJohn

The first section there is what I have always understood "speaking in tongues" to mean -
that the speaker is understood by everyone - that the words come across in the language of the listener, and everyone hears their own language when the utterances are made.

It does NOT mean speaking gibberish.

I agree with you there.

1Cor 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Paul trying to put himself as interpreter who knows the truth instead of others knowing it for themselves. Submit to the view of Paul and do not get answer yourself. Muhammad and Paul clearly was created in the same mold with the same manipulation fooling the masses of their intent. Anti Christs since they are trying to dumb down souls thru faith (submission to their indoctrination) instead of true spiritual awareness.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

So we can have a difference of opinion on the word of God and still respect each other?

You mean agree wth you, sorry.

Edit: Disagreeing is not disrespecting by the way.

a reply to: intrptr
The whole point is that it's all allegory. The bible verses in question are meant to convey an underlying metaphysical/gnostic truth, as well as a human truth. Christians take these verses literally. They should be interpreted metaphorically. Humans speak in "tongues" all the time, and if spoken from the heart, we can often understand the baser meaning of what is being said subconsciously, even if we don't understand the words. That's why I used a baby as an example.

It's a convoluted topic, and gets into other topics beyond the scope of the OP's thread.

a reply to: misskat1

Just as a side note, my life review was not about sin, it was about hurting people. I felt everything I had made other feel in my life.

You went thru the mirror from my point of view. I have not done it myself yet this time around but I have gotten information about it. It is kind of nice knowing the servants are around to bring you proof of the divine when you need it.

I do not doubt that the divine exists. I have to much proof, I do not agree with how many religions describe it/them.