Study of Tongues in the New Testament

a reply to: ChesterJohn


Tongues means languages.

Simply, the Pentecostal movement is absurd and doesn't seem to get that tongues is the vocabulary used when the languages were confused at Babel.

The gift of tongues is the ability to learn new languages. That's it.

Plus who cares, it's Pauline nonsense anyway.

Interesting. I know the SVV has experimented with this.

Whenever I meet someone speaking tongues I ask them to teach me hello in it

Did you know a University did a scientific medical study of the gift of speaking in tongues? They did scans on the volunteer subjects brains while they prayed in the gift of tongues. The scans showed when they spoke in tongues it used a part of the brain that has nothing to do with language! It actually collaborated what the Apostle Paul wrote regarding the gift. "For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful." 1 Corth 14:14

youtu.be...

For those who do not understand the gift of tongues and would like a detailed teaching on it and its opperation, I highly recommend reading a free ebook called "The Walk of the Spirit, the Walk of power" by Dave Robeson.

www.daveroberson.org...

a reply to: Sharparrow

That's interesting. Reminds me of Matthew 6, " 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.

8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. Main part

9 “This, then, is how you should pray:

“‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,[a]
but deliver us from the evil one.’"

a reply to: [post=22007461]Maplestor

Hi Maple

The babbling of the pagans, if you observe for example Buddist monks they will chant a repetitive prayer that they have learned from their masters instruction. They all do it together in unison, there is not individual expression it is viewed as one big collective.

Tongues however each individual has their own unique expression of prayer language as the Holy Spirit gives them utterance. The flow of words, they way they express out what they pray is different.

When people sing in tongues it is a beautiful harmonious sound. Everyone is singing differently and yet it blends and compliment each other.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

When i attended a apostolic church a few times, people spoke in tongues. However not undersyandable it was what was spoke in plain english that seemed to have a profound effect where people were receiving each a different message. This was not different interpretation but something more.

This was my only experience where i seemed to see something closer to what tongues are.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Text So in short, the sign gift needs no interpretation, the spiritual gift needs an interpretation and the unknown tongue has no interpretation anf therefore Paul says it should not be done in the assembly.

Agree completely Chester. I attended a Pentecostal independent assembly one time in the mid west U.S.A. and was quite surprised to have been given a card about the size of a post card with the requirements of belonging to that assembly. The most pronounced requirement was that you must be baptized with the Holy Spirit and talk in tongues. That floored me. I knew that tongues were a gift and not a requirement and that no person can demand what is a gift from God. I then asked about the other eight gifts of God which were included with tongues. were they also a requirement from God?

As the service progressed and came to an end the congregation started to assemble for prayer and a lady came to me and asked me if I talked in tongues. I said no and she then asked me to come with her and she would teach me how to talk in tongues. I left that congregation in a very sad state to say the least.

I soon learned that the preacher's wife was dying from cancer and there was no one in the assembly who had the gift of healing. She did die some time after that and I remember being very sad that this type of selective faith is a great wrong in Christianity.

Speaking in Tongues—Is It From God?

“I JUST don’t understand,” says Devon. “Each week at my church, many seem to get the holy spirit and miraculously speak in different languages. Some of them lead immoral lives. Meanwhile, I try to live in a morally upright way. Yet, as much as I pray for it, I never receive this gift of the spirit. How can that be?”

Gabriel likewise attends a church where people appear to receive holy spirit and speak in tongues. “What bothers me,” he explains, “is that during my prayers, others interrupt me with loud speech that neither I nor they understand. No one really benefits from this speech. Should not a gift of God’s spirit have some useful purpose?”

The experiences of Devon and Gabriel raise an intriguing question, Is speaking in tongues as done in some churches today really from God? To answer that question, it is helpful to examine the gift of miraculous speech among first-century Christians.

They “Started to Speak With Different Tongues”

In the Bible, we read of some men and women who were given power to speak languages that they had never learned. This first occurred on the day of Pentecost 33 C.E., a few weeks after the death of Jesus Christ. On that day in Jerusalem, some 120 disciples of Jesus “became filled with holy spirit and started to speak with different tongues.” Visitors from foreign lands “were bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language.”—Acts 1:15; 2:1-6.

The Bible mentions other early followers of Jesus who had this remarkable ability. For example, empowered by holy spirit, the apostle Paul could miraculously speak in numerous tongues. (Acts 19:6; 1 Corinthians 12:10, 28; 14:18) But any such gift of God’s holy spirit should logically have a good purpose. So, what purpose did speaking in tongues serve in Bible times?

A Sign of God’s Backing

...

A Tool to Spread the Good News

Early in his ministry, Jesus directed his disciples to preach the good news of God’s Kingdom to the Jews only. (Matthew 10:6; 15:24) As a result, the disciples rarely set foot outside of areas predominantly inhabited by Jews. But that would soon change.

Shortly after his death in 33 C.E., the resurrected Jesus commanded his followers to “make disciples of people of all the nations.” He also told his followers that they would be witnesses of him “to the most distant part of the earth.” (Matthew 28:19; Acts 1:8) Spreading the good news to that extent would require the use of many tongues other than Hebrew.

However, many of those early disciples were “unlettered and ordinary.” (Acts 4:13) How, then, would they be able to preach in distant lands where languages were spoken that they may never have heard of, let alone learned to speak? Holy spirit empowered some of those zealous preachers with the miraculous ability to preach fluently in languages they had never before learned to speak.

Thus, the gift of tongues served two vital purposes. First, it provided a sign as evidence of God’s backing. Second, it was an effective tool to help the first-century Christians fulfill their commission to preach to people of many languages. Does the speaking in tongues done in many churches today accomplish these purposes?

Speaking in Tongues Today—A Sign of God’s Backing?

Where would you post a sign to benefit as many individuals as possible in your community? Inside a small building? Of course not! The account of the day of Pentecost tells us that a “multitude” of passersby observed the sign provided by the disciples’ miraculous speaking in tongues. Why, as a result, “about three thousand souls were added” to the Christian congregation on that day! (Acts 2:5, 6, 41) If people today claim to speak in tongues but do so within the confines of a church building, how can the practice serve as a public sign to multitudes of unbelievers?

God’s Word mentions fornication and other “works of the flesh” as being opposed to the operation of holy spirit, adding that “those who practice such things will not inherit God’s kingdom.” (Galatians 5:17-21) If you observe people of questionable morals speaking in tongues, you might rightly wonder, ‘Would it not be inconsistent—even misleading—for God’s holy spirit to be bestowed on individuals who persistently engage in conduct that God’s own Word condemns?’ That would be like installing a street sign that directs traffic the wrong way.

Speaking in Tongues Today—A Tool to Spread the Good News?

What about the other purpose of the gift of tongues in the first century? Does the speaking in tongues practiced in churches serve as a tool for preaching the good news to people of different languages? Recall that observers who were in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost 33 C.E. were from many lands, and they clearly understood the languages miraculously spoken by the disciples. In contrast, those who speak in tongues today usually utter speech that is unintelligible to any listener.

Clearly, modern-day speaking in tongues is very different from the gift of holy spirit given to Jesus’ early followers. In fact, there is no reliable record of anyone receiving that same miraculous power since the death of the apostles. This is not surprising to Bible readers. Regarding the miraculous gifts, including that of speaking in tongues, the inspired apostle Paul prophesied: “They will cease.” (1 Corinthians 13:8) How, then, can one discern who has the holy spirit today?

Who Give Evidence of Having Holy Spirit?

Jesus well knew that the gift of tongues would cease relatively soon after the formation of the Christian congregation. Shortly before he died, Jesus mentioned a timeless sign, or mark, that would identify his true followers. “By this all will know that you are my disciples,” he said, “if you have love among yourselves.” (John 13:35) In fact, in the same verse where God’s Word foretold that the miraculous gifts would eventually cease, it says: “Love never fails.”—1 Corinthians 13:8.

Love is listed as the first of nine aspects of “the fruitage,” or product, of God’s holy spirit. (Galatians 5:22, 23) So those who truly have God’s spirit—and hence God’s backing—would show genuine love for one another. In addition, the third aspect of the spirit’s fruitage is peace. Thus, those people who today have holy spirit would be committed to peace, earnestly seeking to rise above bigotry, racism, and violence.

Also, recall Jesus’ prophecy recorded at Acts 1:8. He foretold that his disciples would receive power to be witnesses of him “to the most distant part of the earth.” Jesus also indicated that this work would continue “unto the end of the world.” (Matthew 28:20, King James Version) Hence, this international preaching work would continue to be an identifying mark of those who are truly empowered by holy spirit.

What do you think? With what group of people do you find evidence of holy spirit today? Who are manifesting the spirit’s fruitage, particularly love and peace, to the extent that they suffer at the hands of governments because of their refusal to bear arms worldwide? (Isaiah 2:4) Who are endeavoring to avoid the works of the flesh, such as fornication, even removing unrepentant practicers of such conduct from their midst? (1 Corinthians 5:11-13) Who are preaching in all the earth the good news that God’s Kingdom is the only hope for humanity?—Matthew 24:14.

And not Trump or any other politician.

If you go by the King James, or any other "slapped together bible" you have no idea how far you have led yourself astray. However, you can thank all the people who slapped these overtly edited, agenda driven, real scriptures left out, and the various occult groups who had a hand in re-writing, making-up, and falsifying what was "supposedly holy." That, and I'm sure none of you speak or read proto-Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, Ancient Egyptian -or have read the Dead-Sea-Scrolls...and I could go on and on. This is just a crude synopses: Old Testament - Ancient Jewish Agendas, New Testament - Greek/Roman Agendas.

a reply to: hiddenlight

If you go by the King James, or any other "slapped together bible" you have no idea how far you have led yourself astray. However, you can thank all the people who slapped these overtly edited, agenda driven, real scriptures left out, and the various occult groups who had a hand in re-writing, making-up, and falsifying what was "supposedly holy." That, andOld Testament - Ancient Jewish Agendas, New Testament - Greek/Roman Agendas. I'm sure none of you speak or read proto-Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, Ancient Egyptian -or have read the Dead-Sea-Scrolls...and I could go on and on. This is just a crude synopses:

Could you explain your post a little more? I find it interesting when you stated quote -I'm sure none of you speak or read proto-Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, Ancient Egyptian -or have read the Dead-Sea-Scrolls...and I could go on and on. This is just a crude synopses: unquote

Are you saying that you are a translator and interpreter of 1st century Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, Ancient Egyptian? We can get into this Proto Hebrew that you are also an expert at a latter time.

If you would please explain Your rendition of Genesis 14:12-15 and give us the true Hebrew translation/interpretation and then the true source of your translation and interpretation.

Those "who really know" don't speak; and those "who speak" don't know.

Not only am I not going to debate or justify what I know to you; I said what I mean and I meant what I said.

And lastly, never justify or explain the truth with lies, and any half of another half.

Come in peace; Leave in peace.

a reply to: hiddenlight

Not only am I not going to debate or justify what I know to you; I said what I mean and I meant what I said.

Matthew_5:15,16 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

You are as a thief who hides the light of God. Your name suites your agenda. A scoundrel and a rascal would suit you best.

Look man, using scripture as a weapon against those who have done nothing too you defeats the commandment -if you believe in the bible, "Love others." (The first supposed commandment of the NT).

Also, I am sure you are familiar with, "Not casting pearls before swine." ATS is the wrong forum, the wrong platform, and the wrong internet place to discuss biblical trivialities.

No one called you any names. Remember the "Golden Rule." Anyone can "cherry-pick" the scriptures to "create whatever meaning they want." "All doctrine, including theology, theory, and practice are ripe for 'reproof, correction, re-writing, re-interpretation' -if even it means calling some of them 'wrong'."

Just because "scripture is written by the 'inspiration of men thinking about godly things' does not 'in-fact' mean it is from God."

The name (hiddenlight) itself refers to "biblical scripture" which speaks of "light in the midst of the darkness although the darkness knows it not."

No one came here to fight you, debate you, or even deserves the "tone and obvious adversarial attacks upon others here." I came here to read, talk, and maybe interact with those of similar interests.

Debating scripture is as "tired and as old as the oldest dead and beaten horse". The facility and ignorance of debating scriptures "over 2000 years old" is that the "arguments are just as old." There is nothing to prove as everything has been lost in the "sands of time." People and the understanding of "such things" are not the "same now as they were then" and there is no sense in "trying to make something out of nothing."

Although I am not "religious" I can forgive you for your "trespass against me." And, I wish you nothing but the best.

Lastly, I am not "judging you" however, the scripture does say, "A person of spirituality has the right to judge all things of a spiritual nature."

Hope you get that "intellectual chip off your shoulder."

Come in Peace; Leave in Peace.

originally posted by: hiddenlight
If you go by the King James, or any other "slapped together bible" you have no idea how far you have led yourself astray. However, you can thank all the people who slapped these overtly edited, agenda driven, real scriptures left out, and the various occult groups who had a hand in re-writing, making-up, and falsifying what was "supposedly holy." That, and I'm sure none of you speak or read proto-Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, Ancient Egyptian -or have read the Dead-Sea-Scrolls...and I could go on and on. This is just a crude synopses: Old Testament - Ancient Jewish Agendas, New Testament - Greek/Roman Agendas.

This is just my own personal experience, but scholars agree. The "slapped together bible" called the King James Version carries a complete and consistent message, despite the many authors and time span. You can't unlock Revelation without Daniel and other key books in the Old Testament. The chiastic way many of the books are written and the chiastic whole of the KJV shows divine inspiration. On the surface, it seems discombobulated, but it's not, it has layers of depth and meaning that transcend what I would consider to be normal. I like to think of the Bible as compressed. The only way to unlock it is to use God's app, the Holy Spirit. If you're a skeptic or you don't have faith or believe, that app simply isn't available to you.

It's your choice to believe what you want to believe, but I can tell you from personal experience that the KJV is insanely complex, deep... and most importantly, consistent in its message. A feat unfathomable for so many authors (40) over about 1500 years of time.

Do a search for "chiasmus bible" on Google Images.

Before you get lost on the KJV, you might want to study what he did with it -who he gave it too- before publishing.

Also, read over the old Councils that decided what constituted scripture and what did not.

Be careful not to over-look the historical forest for the idiosyncrasies of a single tree.

You can compare the KJV directly with the original Hebrew and Greek texts on sites like www.blueletterbible.org..., which negates the argument of things being changed. Even if they were, you have the real translation and actual words and meanings at your fingertips.

Before this ish gets deep, I suggest your read up on Constantine, maybe Eusibus, the Nicean Council...and of course Roman history. Also, for you conspiracy nuts, Holy Blood Holy Grail -as long as you separate the wheat from the chaff.

Might want to read the old 1st cen. historical records of the Vatican. Who knows what you will find out about your precious infallible bible.

Ten commandments? What? Someone say Egyptian BOTD?

Without getting detailed, you might want to read up on the story to unite the "Roman Empire between the proto-Christians and the Pagans."

Sol Invictus anyone? (lol)

Hey, and what about those Mythric Pagan temples the Vatican was built on?

I swear, you throw someone a bone, and I'm speaking ancient Egyptian.

Wonder if Tahuti ever had eons like this?

Seriously, the bible isn't what you imagine it to be, no matter how lucid your imagination or ability "to Google on the internet."

Peace.

Anyway students, go back to school books.

Somethings might of been written down to spoken tongues. Therefore intrepeting was needed