Shooting heard in Ankara, military jets & helicopters flying over city

On a positive note, most of their army is younger population who are conscripted ("drafted" for US perspective), and there were reports of police / paramilitary taking them into custody or escorting them away peacefully. Seems like at least at the street-level, people are sensitive to not blame the lowest echelon's of the military as conspirators who started all this stuff - they were just shoved into the middle of all this.

Of course, Mr. E - might decide to wipe them all out anyway - we will have to wait and see.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Images of lots of military soldiers coming out with hands up being shown.

Apparently turkey has the weakest military on the planet.

ISIS is probably salivating at the new found opportunity.

a reply to: Chickensalad

There are reports of military resistance on going, including from the air. Ankara is not secure by either side.

50 soldiers on one of the bridges over the Bosphorous have surrendered.

Their military seems to lack balls. Orchestrate a coup and wont do the dirty work involved? Getting captured by civilian police forces? Or was the whole thing an elaborate rouse?

Of course this all might just be round one.

originally posted by: onequestion
Apparently turkey have the weakest military on the planet.
ISIS is probably salivating at the new found opportunity.

Well, they have mandatory / conscripted / drafted military service. That means you have a lot of troops who literally "did not sign-up for this s__t".

In comparison, Saddam Hussein had two levels of military. The "Republican Guard" was their paid/professional units. The bulk infantry was conscripts. The conscripts were the ones surrendering to our drones. The Republican Guard is the one we got into a tank-battle with.

how clever...erdogan will return triumphant and praise the people of turkey...
who saved the country from ruin..thus cementing himself with the people.
very clever...now he will have free reign, and with the total support of the people.

The coup could be gaining momentum by those with initial cold feet, and/or zealous Media who's interest is to drag it on.

a reply to: EnhancedInterrogator

Thats a good point.
A lot of the conscripts probably werent on board with the coup, making it extremely important that they kill Erdogan in the first hour. They didnt and maybe the game really was up after that.

Actually the Turkish miitary is pretty good. I would be hesitant to draw a conclusion on their ability based on a very strange / suspect coup.

An acting head of the military has been appointed since they cant find the actual head.

"A gift from allah"

This coup could have not turned out better for Erdogan if he staged it himself.

originally posted by: autopat51
how clever...erdogan will return triumphant and praise the people of turkey...
who saved the country from ruin..thus cementing himself with the people.
very clever...now he will have free reign, and with the total support of the people.

Unfortunately, you' are 100% correct. This is going to result in a move toward a more authoritarian structure, not a more democratic one. For future reference (you guys in Turkey hear me?):

• The difference between a "coup" and a "revolution" is getting the civilian population (opposition parties, etc.) on your side!
  
• Timing is everything. Wait until right when the existing regime does something totally unacceptable to the general population. Don't jump just because he's "on vacation".
  
• Get your act together! If you don't have solid backing from all your military branches from the general level down to at least the colonel level - give it up.
  
• Cut the head-off is Step-1! Arrest him or take him out has to be the first step. If that is unsuccessful, hope you have cyanide capsules.
  

originally posted by: Deny Arrogance
"A gift from allah"

This coup could have not turned out better for Erdogan if he staged it himself.

I think he did. Things are not adding up.

a reply to: onequestion

Who said that? Weakest Military? 2nd largest in NATO and equipped with modern weaponry.

Whoever you're quoting there hasn't a clue what they're on about.

originally posted by: EnhancedInterrogator

originally posted by: autopat51
how clever...erdogan will return triumphant and praise the people of turkey...
who saved the country from ruin..thus cementing himself with the people.
very clever...now he will have free reign, and with the total support of the people.

Unfortunately, you' are 100% correct. This is going to result in a move toward a more authoritarian structure, not a more democratic one. For future reference (you guys in Turkey hear me?):

• The difference between a "coup" and a "revolution" is getting the civilian population (opposition parties, etc.) on your side!
  
• Timing is everything. Wait until right when the existing regime does something totally unacceptable to the general population. Don't jump just because he's "on vacation".
  
• Get your act together! If you don't have solid backing from all your military branches from the general level down to at least the colonel level - give it up.
  
• Cut the head-off is Step-1! Arrest him or take him out has to be the first step. If that is unsuccessful, hope you have cyanide capsules.
  

Dont forget the bombing of the Parliament, or the Reichstag's fire as its more commonly known.

originally posted by: pirhanna
a reply to: EnhancedInterrogator
Thats a good point.
A lot of the conscripts probably werent on board with the coup, making it extremely important that they kill Erdogan in the first hour. They didnt and maybe the game really was up after that.

I think we are going to find-out, this was a very small group of officers in the military who cooked-up this half-baked coup. Of course, that won't stop Erdogan from blaming a way bigger set of officers so that he can "clean-house" of all possible opposition.

My prediction: Within 10 years, Erdogan will be overthrown by somebody else - probably with military and public support. But, there will be several years of increasing BS while he's in power.

a reply to: EnhancedInterrogator

I dunno.. going on tv and promising to "cleanse" the military might bring that decade time frame down to near future.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Its a sign of the apocalypse I am agreeing with your analysis

update -
60 people reported dead
336 people taken into custody across Turkey (no info on breakdown military / civilian).

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: EnhancedInterrogator

I dunno.. going on tv and promising to "cleanse" the military might bring that decade time frame down to near future.

Nah, it will extend his time in power, because he'll clean-out anybody he thinks might ever even think about over-throwing him. It will take a while for the next generation in the military and the public to get tired of his crack-downs (after this cleanse) for anybody to even try again.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Deny Arrogance
"A gift from allah"

This coup could have not turned out better for Erdogan if he staged it himself.

I think he did. Things are not adding up.

I have thr same feeling I don't think he created it what it seems is he set up the circumstances to allow it to ocur. Then he sat back and waited to see who would take the opertunity. As he said in his speech afterwards this gives him the opertunity to clean out the military. I thought that was a strange comment giving the fact that he had just regained control.