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Off duty, black cops in New York feel threat from fellow police

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posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 02:03 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

Yes you did say that.



Those crime stats are determined by the policing patterns of the police... nothing more and nothing less. If the police -- and their policing patterns -- are targeting a specific demographic, then those stats are going to reflect that pattern.




The crime stats are a self-fulfilling prophecy, more accurately reflecting policing patterns; NOT criminal patterns in the Black community or anywhere.


Both of these quotes imply that profiling itself is the driving factor here, not the crimes of those being profiled.

Blacks commit more crimes and are therefore subject to profiling. If blacks did not commit crimes the profiling would lead to no arrests and would therefore stop. They are being profiled because they are overrepresented in crime.



If the police -- and their policing patterns -- are targeting a specific demographic, then those stats are going to reflect that pattern.


If the police started profiling East Asians their criminal statistics wouldn't suddenly blow up out of the blue because of it. They would likely remain the same and said profiling would be deemed a waste of time.




posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: TheLaughingGod


Yes you did say that..... Both of these quotes imply that profiling itself is the driving factor here, not the crimes of those being profiled.


Thank you for confirming that I did not say that. I did not even imply it. I never quantified in any way. However, you inferred it based upon your own premise:


Blacks commit more crimes and are therefore subject to profiling.


Which is, by the way, a non sequitir.


If blacks did not commit crimes the profiling would lead to no arrests and would therefore stop.


Another non sequitir. There is a reason we have phrases like "false arrest" and "mistaken identity" and "kangaroo courts."



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 02:18 PM
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originally posted by: TheLaughingGod
a reply to: Boadicea

Yes you did say that.



Those crime stats are determined by the policing patterns of the police... nothing more and nothing less. If the police -- and their policing patterns -- are targeting a specific demographic, then those stats are going to reflect that pattern.




The crime stats are a self-fulfilling prophecy, more accurately reflecting policing patterns; NOT criminal patterns in the Black community or anywhere.


Both of these quotes imply that profiling itself is the driving factor here, not the crimes of those being profiled.

Blacks commit more crimes and are therefore subject to profiling. If blacks did not commit crimes the profiling would lead to no arrests and would therefore stop. They are being profiled because they are overrepresented in crime.



If the police -- and their policing patterns -- are targeting a specific demographic, then those stats are going to reflect that pattern.


If the police started profiling East Asians their criminal statistics wouldn't suddenly blow up out of the blue because of it. They would likely remain the same and said profiling would be deemed a waste of time.


i agree. and its what the OP is failing to realize.
there is racial profiling because there is cause and effect.

there are bad cops. if when police racial profiled, and time and time again they were dead wrong, it would be a lot easier to incriminate those cops. but as long as crime rate numbers are in their favor, no matter what their wrong doing, they can use those stats as an argument.

if police here in OC police began to profile the Samoan community, and that said community brought it up to the counsel or city, it would be easy for them to prove its unjust and even easier to incriminate those police.
edit on 14-7-2016 by odzeandennz because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 02:21 PM
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a reply to: Shamrock6


Stopping somebody because the fit the description of a person who committed a crime when that description is given by witnesses and/or video evidence is not profiling.

Stopping somebody to see if they committed a crime with no information to indicate they have is profiling.

Two completely different things.


Thank you Shamrock!!!

I promise I'm not reading any more into that than what you stated... but thank you for saying so well what I could not!



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 02:27 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Khaleesi


I don't agree with profiling people when there is no crime involved.


Good. Because that's exactly what the OP is about.

These cops are saying, "Yes, we are and have been profiled when there is no crime involved." And the chief is telling the officer to profile people when there is no known crime involved.


Do not edit my response in an attempt to make it agree with what you are saying. I originally responded to your assertion that policing patterns are why black people are being unfairly targeted. I do not believe that entirely. While I do believe being profiled when no crime has been committed is wrong, I also believe some policing patterns are in response to crimes being reported with a specific descriptions that prompts police to stop certain people. Their is a distinct difference in our positions on this matter.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: odzeandennz

Agreed.. I don't know where all those stars are coming from, the argument is completely without merit and this is self evident.

It just goes to show you that people's opinions in general are based on what they want to believe, not what is.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 02:57 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

Non sequitur*...




The crime stats are a self-fulfilling prophecy, more accurately reflecting policing patterns; NOT criminal patterns in the Black community or anywhere.


This does imply that crime statistics reflects the policing(profiling) of a specific minority. This is what you are saying, stop denying it.

You think this whole thug culture is an invention of the police? The media? Rap music glorifies being a thug. Are you suggesting that there aren't more black gang members than there are white gang members?

What are you really saying here? Because you keep denying my interpretation of your words but you don't correct me as to what you actually mean.

I think what you're saying is pretty straightforward: profiling itself is a large factor that influences crime statistics, not actual crime.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: Khaleesi


Do not edit my response in an attempt to make it agree with what you are saying.


I edited nothing. I quoted you verbatim:


I don't agree with profiling people when there is no crime involved.


And... wait... what's this:


While I do believe being profiled when no crime has been committed is wrong...


Oh look! You said it again!!!


I originally responded to your assertion that policing patterns are why black people are being unfairly targeted.


Technically, my assertion is that the crime stats and listed suspects are reflective of policing patterns, not criminal patterns, and likewise reflect Black people being targeted.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 03:04 PM
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a reply to: TheLaughingGod


I think what you're saying is pretty straightforward: profiling itself is a large factor that influences crime statistics...


Yes! That's what I'm saying!!!


...not actual crime.


In combination with actual crime.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: odzeandennz

You wanna hear something crazy???

The liberal narrative is so heavy right now I almost thought you might be a closet racist until you said your black.

Damn, sometimes I feel like I'm losing it but your right.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 03:14 PM
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a reply to: TheLaughingGod

To be perfectly honest theres just a lot of gangs in the US, our drug enforcement policy has turned this country on its head.

But it's the Latino's and Biker gangs who rule that world.

The mafia isn't and doesn't operate like a gang they control city councils and businesses using threats of death and violence.
edit on 7/14/2016 by onequestion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 03:14 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Khaleesi


Do not edit my response in an attempt to make it agree with what you are saying.


I edited nothing. I quoted you verbatim:


I don't agree with profiling people when there is no crime involved.


And... wait... what's this:


While I do believe being profiled when no crime has been committed is wrong...


Oh look! You said it again!!!


I originally responded to your assertion that policing patterns are why black people are being unfairly targeted.


Technically, my assertion is that the crime stats and listed suspects are reflective of policing patterns, not criminal patterns, and likewise reflect Black people being targeted.



You edited half of my response out . You quoted HALF of what I said which skewed the meaning. Crime stats and suspects are a result of the reports that are given to the police by the citizens. So what? The police are supposed to ignore the reports? The police don't make the reports. They receive the reports and put them into the data base. Suspects are the result of descriptions given.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 03:18 PM
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a reply to: Khaleesi

I was focusing on the common ground I found between us. A starting point to build from possibly...

But if you don't want to... okay.

Have your say. Make your record. I'm good with that.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 03:49 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Khaleesi

I was focusing on the common ground I found between us. A starting point to build from possibly...

But if you don't want to... okay.

Have your say. Make your record. I'm good with that.


If you were trying to build from common ground you wouldn't have gleefully done it again with multiple exclamation points.


Oh look! You said it again!!!


You would have respected my request to quote me in full.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 03:58 PM
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a reply to: Khaleesi

Bless your heart.

I hope the rest of your day is awesome



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 04:05 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

he he.

to me, the problem isn't the problem, the problem is our attitude toward the problem.

I can sit here and say some cops are biased and unfairly target blacks, I'd be right. but I couldn't without bias say blacks are not easier targets than other minority groups because of stat crime in 'x'. it wouldn't make sense for me to circumnavigate around an even bigger issue in order to point out another's faults.
feel free to revisit all of my posts in this thread if you think otherwise.

I'd rather point out solutions instead of problems all the time.
edit on 14-7-2016 by odzeandennz because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 04:08 PM
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a reply to: Boadicea

They didn't start profiling people out of a vacuum. First there was crime, profiling was a response to said crime.

If there were no crime the profiling would amount to nothing and no blacks would be sentenced.

The percentage of people being framed is probably negligible.

Try not to let your progressive ideology colour your conclusions. It's becoming very apparent that facts mean nothing to you.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 04:14 PM
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a reply to: onequestion

Maybe if I were black I could be a dissident without being called a racist. But hey, it's the internet.. so you know what? I'm black too. Yep.. I'm a black lesbian Muslim and my opinion is to be afforded maximum attention and credibility.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 04:24 PM
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originally posted by: TheLaughingGod
a reply to: Boadicea

They didn't start profiling people out of a vacuum. First there was crime, profiling was a response to said crime.

If there were no crime the profiling would amount to nothing and no blacks would be sentenced.

The percentage of people being framed is probably negligible.

Try not to let your progressive ideology colour your conclusions. It's becoming very apparent that facts mean nothing to you.


hes otherwise a smart poster as far as I've seen.
I think this topic is a bit emotional and , emotions trump all logic. ( case and point 80% police traffic shootings).

this is also not specific to race or the law or politics.
if I'm a stock trader on the trade floor, I will keep my eyes on the volatiles stocks and let my customers know about transactions. I don't know how many more metaphors can be made to , not sway him into thinking police bias doesn't exist (even against black cops), but bias was created because of 'something'.
and that 'something' is the real enemy.
edit on 14-7-2016 by odzeandennz because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 04:36 PM
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Some have it completely backwards.

Cops pay more attention to and focus more on the areas with the highest crime rates. Therefor, more people will have more contact with them within those crime ridden areas. If it's more blacks in crime ridden areas, then it's going to be more blacks having contact with the cops.

If an Asian neighborhood had the higher crime rates, it'd be Asians. If it was a white neighborhood, it'd be whites.

Given stats show blacks commit far more violent crimes than any other race, this shouldn't be surprising. If your local neighborhood had high rates of whites gunning down whites, whites standing on the corners selling drugs, white street gangs, that's where the cops would focus their efforts.

And which areas do you think cops receive more complaints to come out for gun violence, gang violence, selling drugs on the corner? Are they supposed to ignore calls to come out because they hit some artificial limit which if they go over, it's considered racist?




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