The Sanders "Revolution" Was Just Put To Sleep

originally posted by: essentialtremors


I will say, that Ron Paul never endorsed any of his opponents and fought until the end. That's respectable. He never once sold out his ideologies. He didn't just say things, he lived it.

Ron Paul lost, and none of his policies got included in the platform of the candidates who did win.

Hillary has recently adopted some of Bernie's platform, for example free college tuition at state universities.

I'd rather get some of the things I want, rather than none of the things I want.

Give Bernie credit unlike the stupid like Ralph Nadir who got Bush elected because his ego wanted to run


The goal is to stop Trump even though Hillary is lousy too

But the reality is that the lessor of two evils is the only choice we always have.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: essentialtremors


I will say, that Ron Paul never endorsed any of his opponents and fought until the end. That's respectable. He never once sold out his ideologies. He didn't just say things, he lived it.

Ron Paul lost, and none of his policies got included in the platform of the candidates who did win.

Hillary has recently adopted some of Bernie's platform, for example free college tuition at state universities.

I'd rather get some of the things I want, rather than none of the things I want.

So you will be voting for Clinton again come 2020? I believe as was shown with Obama's promises, she will say the republicans stymied her but she can do it next election! Just recognize that that free healthcare that Obama originally proposed, isn't free!

originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: olaru12

Careful what you wish for. It could sink Hillary.

Sink Hilary? She is guaranteed the White House, she is the most qualified and has done the most good for this country.

originally posted by: LSU0408

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: essentialtremors
a reply to: Krazysh0t

But, see, on page one you clearly stated that you're not voting on a position thaat you agree with, rather you're voting purely AGAINST a position.

I am voting against Trump. I'm also voting for Sanders' positions that have been adopted into Hillary's campaign. Before it was just voting against Trump, but now that Hillary has adopted some of Sanders' campaign there are things I agree with her on.

In any case, it's complicated and people on ATS usually don't care about my nuances.

Of Sanders' positions, which ones has Clinton adopted? Does she even have any besides bragging about being a third term of obama?

You could actually look this up. It's a pretty simple Google search away.
Bernie Sanders Wins Policy Concessions as Democrats Seek Unity

a reply to: theySeeme

You forgot to put, end of sarcasm...

Someone might actually you think you meant what you said.

originally posted by: theySeeme

originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: olaru12

Careful what you wish for. It could sink Hillary.

Sink Hilary? She is guaranteed the White House, she is the most qualified and has done the most good for this country.

I don't know about that, but watching Trump last nite, his crowd was mostly white guys. For him to have anykind of chance, he is going to need minorities to cross over....I just don't see it.

originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

If you don't support her, don't give her your vote.

Well, thanks for the advice, but I got this.

Or quit thinking we're some kind of fools, and openly say I support that criminal...

I don't think you're fools and I don't think she's a criminal. You're assuming a lot here about my thoughts.

originally posted by: butcherguy
Remember what Ross Perot (a businessman, btw) said about NAFTA? "A giant sucking sound" as the jobs leave the US for Mexico.

Exactly. I voted for Perot. But Donald Trump is no Ross Perot...

Perot supported abortion rights, promoted higher taxes on the wealthy, Medicare for all, more educational funding, strict environmental regulation and cuts in defense funding. He was really quite liberal on many issues.

Ross Perot on the Issues



Hillary Clinton On the Issues



Trump On the Issues

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: theySeeme

originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: olaru12

Careful what you wish for. It could sink Hillary.

Sink Hilary? She is guaranteed the White House, she is the most qualified and has done the most good for this country.

I don't know about that, but watching Trump last nite, his crowd was mostly white guys. For him to have anykind of chance, he is going to need minorities to cross over....I just don't see it.

But! But! According to Trump. They all love him.
Donald Trump declares 'the Hispanics love me – they were chanting for me' after being met by protesters at US-Mexico border

Even when they are actively protesting him, they are loving him. Didn't you know?

The outspoken tycoon was met by a group of about 50 Hispanic protesters as his plane landed in Texas but told reporters that people were actually gathered there to show their support. “They were chanting for me at the airport,” he insisted.

When a reporter told him there were "plenty" of people chanting against him, Trump was unfazed: “I didn’t see them."

originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: theySeeme

You forgot to put, end of sarcasm...

Someone might actually you think you meant what you said.

Oh I'm dead serious, out of the options left to vote for - Hilary as done more good for this country than Trump. She is also more qualified than Trump. She has also paid more in taxes than trump, despite earning less.

I won't argue that Hilary has done her dirt as well, but in all fairness, she has done a hell of a job her entire career, much better than most.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

And women, the biggest voting demographic in the US think Trump is creepy, with that hair and small hands....

They may stand beside their husbands at the Trump rally but when in the voting booth will support Clinton; at least according to my Baptist, Texan, Right Wing, blue haired mother.

Donald has some loyal and outspoken supporters but he needs a broad spectrum of voters. It's a numbers game.

Of course these are broad sweeping generalities but we shall see SOON. The circus is in town...bring in the clowns!

a reply to: olaru12

Oh I know. I'm just kidding around. I know that Trump has little to no support outside of the white male demographic. My mom is the same way. She's hated his guts since the 90's

a reply to: theySeeme

BLASPHEMY! You aren't allowed to say anything positive about Hillary Clinton on ATS! Only hyperbole and slander allowed in this here echo chamber.

I don't think Bernie has conceded or given up or lost yet. He's not done.

I think he had to endorse Clinton or they would have shut him out of the convention.

I think they'll be fireworks and hell to pay at the Democratic Convention.

In my heart, I truly believe that he will run independently or endorse Jill Stein after the convention if he doesn't win there.

Let's see what happens.

a reply to: amazing

You do know that the odds of something like that happening are near 0 right? Or are you pulling a Jim Carrey in Dumb and Dumber?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: amazing

You do know that the odds of something like that happening are near 0 right? Or are you pulling a Jim Carrey in Dumb and Dumber?

I don't think it's near zero, but like I said lets see what happens in the convention. I base this on actual Sanders delegates saying they're still voting for Sanders and putting forth scenarios like this.

I myself am either voting for Jill Stein or Gary Johnson in the General Election.

98% of the time you and I are in agreement on things here on ATS. It's that other 2% where I see you hold a stubborn position and don't seem to be able to see the possibilities. You sometimes seem to be stuck in your own paradigm and when things don't hold to your worldview you discount them and give them a zero probability. I'm trying to find the right way to describe it.

It would be like if I said I was going to start a small business in a down economy. The probability of success based on statistics is very low. You would tell me don't do it, there is zero chance of success. However, I know that anything is possible and I would give it a shot. And, real life example, I did succeed against all odds.

That's the difference between negative people/realists and optimistic people/dreamers.

The dreamers statistically have a lower chance of success, take more chances, but when we succeed like MLK, Gandhi, Tesla, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln...man when we succeed life is sweet.

Be optimistic, and if we fail, then we just try again a different way. But real permanent failure is not an option.

originally posted by: CynConcepts
It is frustrating that so many say that the only reason they are voting for Clinton or Trump is out of fear of the otherside becoming President! If everyone of these individuals voted for a third party, Americans would send a bigger message to the establishment than the fact that we are just sheeple! Sigh.

I had so much hope six months ago.

Now I have the opposite feelings.

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
I feel this is a shame really, I really hope Bernie people don't automatically say, oh well and vote Hillary.
Actually if you are an ATS member and you know the score with Hillary, she is the one person that no ATS member should be voting for.
Better to not vote at all actually, or park your vote in protest with the libertarians this election cycle.

Sanders

Damn do I feel stupid.

I "felt the Bern" alright, brought to us by big money politics, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders and the rest of the corrupt democratic machine.

Against better judgement I gave the left a shot. Never again.

While I believe that Donald Trump is a fool, I do believe that he's an "honest" fool whose faults can be contained by the the Congress critters from both parties. Left with a choice between an utterly corrupt Clinton or a moronic Trump, I have to follow the moron.
Trump 2016

a reply to: amazing

No, it's pretty much near zero. I mean where are your sources of delegates saying that today? Post some.

It would be like if I said I was going to start a small business in a down economy. The probability of success based on statistics is very low. You would tell me don't do it, there is zero chance of success. However, I know that anything is possible and I would give it a shot. And, real life example, I did succeed against all odds.

This is a completely different set of probability and statistics to be successful than predicting what Bernie will end up doing at the convention. For one, starting a business and it being successful DIRECTLY relies on your willingness to work and put in effort to make it succeed. Your claim here is a complete guess. One you claim to be founded on sources of delegates saying they'll still vote for Bernie. Whether these sources exist or not doesn't matter though. Your input has absolutely zero baring on if this will happen or not. It is a complete guess on your part. And one that is EXTREMELY unlikely given Bernie's history and that he has been saying he'll support the Democratic candidate all along no matter who it was.

When I say that the chances of what you described are near zero, it's because I know enough about what is going on to make that claim pretty confidently. You are basically wishing for a Hail Mary pass here.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Here's one thing I saw. I've seen dozens of reports like this today. This is the most comprehensive. The only problem is what I'm seeing is unverified and unsubstantiated. I don't have a name or a source. I don't feel bad putting it out here on ATS for discussion because this is a conspiracy and Theory site and I think it's relevant to our discussion. I get that it could just be noise but there could be something here. Unlike you though I don't discount everything I see if it doesn't fit my world view or preconceived notions.

From Sanders' inside delegates meeting:
FAQ time:
Q. Why did Bernie endorse Hillary now?
A. They threatened to completey shut him out of the convention if he didn't.
Q. Couldn't he have said screw them and go and fight at the convention anyway?
A. No. Hillary has more delegates, Superdelegates, and supporters on the DNC rules committee. They would have voted down every one of our platforms, denied Bernie the opportunity to speak, and basically shut him out of the entire process. All the leverage he has gained up to this point would be gone.
Q. So wait, Bernie DIDN'T quit today?
A. No. He had to say she won the primary, he endorses her and will help the party defeat Trump, yadda yadda but he DID NOT concede. There is a very big and important difference. Had he conceded, all of his delegates would go to Hillary and he would no longer be an option for nominee.
Q. So Bernie can actually still win??
A. YES. And if he wasn't still TRYING to win, he would have conceded. The ONLY option he had to get to the convention with his delegates behind him and have a chance to still win was to do what he did today. He is not a traitor. He didn't sell us out. He did the only possible thing he could have done to keep fighting for the nomination.
Q. So how can Bernie still win if he's losing the delegate count and he just said he will help Hillary win the election?
A. By far the most important thing to the DNC, even more important than making sure Hillary beats Bernie, is making sure the Democratic nominee beats the Republicans in November. They scrutinize every poll, every opinion of the public, every event to judge whether a candidate is strong enough to win in November. There are A LOT of things going on right now that show how weak of a general election candidate Hillary Clinton is:
-66% of the country sees her as untrustworthy
-60% thinks she should have been indicted for the email scandal
-A lot of Bernie supporters won't vote for her
-Congress has requested the Department of Justice investigate her for lying under oath about the email scandal
-There's a possibility more emails will be leaked by wikileaks or hackers further proving her guilt
-Many believe the FBI is secretly investigating the Clinton Foundation
-Her "wins" during the primary have been tainted with accusations of fraud, suppression, lawsuits, and investigations
And then there's Bernie. An honest candidate people trust and whose approval rating and trustworthy rating crushes Clinton's. This is the argument Bernie will make at the convention. With all his 1,900 delegates inside arguing this case and 100,000 supporters outside arguing this case, we hope the DNC realizes he's the only choice. He CAN win the convention, but he has to get there first. That's why he endorsed her today.
Q. So it's still important that all of his delegates go to the convention and we all still March on it like we planned?
A. It's more important now than it ever was before.
Q. What if the DNC still refuses to nominate him at the convention? Can he still run third party now that he endorsed her?
A. Yes. In fact, running third party has never been an option until AFTER the convention. We need to stick with Bernie and see this through to the convention. He's led us this far. Do not abandon him now.
Q. What if he loses at the convention and doesn't run third party, but instead endorses Hillary 100% and asks us to vote for her?
A. Then our revolution continues without him and we continue to fight against Hillary Clinton and the DNC all the way up to November and beyond by voting for someone like Jill Stein or writing Bernie in. But the time for that is NOT here yet.
Q. So what did Bernie accomplish with this move?
A. Backed into a corner, facing the entire political pressure of the Democratic Party and the DNC, robbed of a right to claim he should be winning if not for a rigged process, and faced with the threat of being shut out of the convention completely Bernie:
1. Managed to stay in the race and secure a prime speaking slot at a contested convention which he can turn into a floor fight
2. Kept all of his delegates to use as leverage in that floor fight
3. Got tens of thousands of people to "Like" and "follow" Green Party candidate Jill Stein on social media
4. Amplified the #NeverHilliary screams of his supporters for all the media and Superdelegates to see 12 days before the convention.
Anyone trashing Bernie today needs to wake up and respect the masterful chess move he just made.