A work or die mentality doesn't work. Why we deserve a basic income.

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeease.

I would immediately retire and move to a micro-apartment to live in poverty off the basic income. I'm sure tens of millions of other young Americans would do the same thing.

Getting to live my 20s and 30s boozing it up all the time with my boys with free rent and food? Yes, please!

The idea is a bad one because people like me will YOLO the second we can.

originally posted by: Benicealways
a reply to: cynicalheathen
And why would they pick you to fix the machines when millions are out of a job (with you) and can do what you can as well?

> Once again, a person makes themselves valuable through their individual skillset, not some abstract concept like spirituality or creativity.

Lol.

See, that's the thing. I can fix things better than they can. That's what would make me more valuable.

I can weld, repair, machine, program, and assemble items... either without having to be trained or with very minimal ( i.e. specific to that part ) training.

These are all things that I sought out the knowledge of how to do on my own, while others were playing on social media or being "creative".

I took the initiative to make myself a more functional, useful human being, without having to be told. Doing so is how one increases their value.

Either you understand that concept or you don't. Humans have equal opportunity, but are not "equal".

a reply to: schuyler

No one else owes you anything just because you were born. You don't "deserve" anything.

Some might argue that they were born without any other option but to be born. Into a world that is run by a minuscule minority that controls almost all of the wealth and allows a slightly larger, but still tiny group to fight over the scraps. Some might say that the ultra wealthy actually enjoy their multiple billion dollar bank accounts while 90% of human beings struggle, and 50% struggle to even live.

Some might say therefore that a guaranteed living wage, regardless of employment, is the very least a human being should have, given that the rules of economics, the systems we are governed by, are written by the very, very few.

originally posted by: Discotech
a reply to: schuyler

People aren't rewarded according to effort though are they ?

Are you saying low paid workers in fast food or retail are any less hard working than investment bankers ?

The people who sweep the streets to keep them clean are less hard working than doctors ?

The bricklayers are less hard working than the architects ?

What a stupid thing to say that people are reward in this society according to effort because it's NOT true at all

Investment bankers, doctors and architects: years of training, schools and certifications

Fast food, bricklaying and street sweepers: Few days to learn


One puts in more mental work and one puts in more physical work. The mental workers could learn the physical jobs easily. The physical workers could not learn the mental work easily.

Society rewards the mental workers because they put in a lot of extra effort in their trade.

Putting a little thought into it,

Scarcity of resources would prevent everyone from receiving a 'basic income'.

Let's say we go ahead and provide 'basic income' for the entire world. If the rest of the world became modernized, and transformed into a consumer society like America; it would require 3.5 planet earths to sustain life given the current population.

Also, the ease by which we are able to acquire our necessities is due to fossil fuels. This energy source will eventually run out, possibly in the next 500 - 1000 years; we may develop a new energy by then, but population and 'providing basic needs' for every human, would essentially cause a mass extinction (which is actually occurring as we speak, and accelerating).

I try to place myself in the position of others before I spout my ignorant opinion about things.

A lot of you should try to do the same thing, and quit assuming you know what is best for anybody.

Most people out there on the street are so nearly beyond ignorant they don't even know when they should maybe not spew what their opinion may be.

I'm not talking about being PC either, I'm talking about being so disconnected from reality and too ignorant to even realize they really shouldn't bother others with their views on the economy and what to do about it, having no clue what they are talking about.

A "work or die" mentality is #ing retarded and considers to few of the variables, and there are a whole lot of variables.

originally posted by: GodEmperor
Putting a little thought into it,

Scarcity of resources would prevent everyone from receiving a 'basic income'.

Let's say we go ahead and provide 'basic income' for the entire world. If the rest of the world became modernized, and transformed into a consumer society like America; it would require 3.5 planet earths to sustain life given the current population.

Also, the ease by which we are able to acquire our necessities is due to fossil fuels. This energy source will eventually run out, possibly in the next 500 - 1000 years; we may develop a new energy by then, but population and 'providing basic needs' for every human, would essentially cause a mass extinction (which is actually occurring as we speak, and accelerating).

I think the answer to this might be: For every scientist, doctor, technician and whatever else that exists, in the poorer parts of the world there are probably a thousand who will never get the chance to even contribute.

That would be my thought on that.

a reply to: Benicealways

There are already way too many people sponging off the doers.

Who decides who produces and who simply sits back and consumes?

The only way it's even close to fair is to subsist on the merits of your skills and efforts.

Do nothing, get nothing.

The rest of nature works that way.

a reply to: GodEmperor

There is no scarcity of resources here, any scarcity of anything is almost always contrived to drive the price up.

High unemployment causes a scarcity of resources for the unemployed in the form of little or no money to buy what they need to survive.

There are no shortages yet, but maybe after the environment gets a bit more contaminated there will be.

originally posted by: Urantia1111
a reply to: Benicealways

There are already way too many people sponging off the doers.

Who decides who produces and who simply sits back and consumes?

The only way it's even close to fair is to subsist on the merits of your skills and efforts.

Do nothing, get nothing.

The rest of nature works that way.

That is only fair under the present economic model. You know, the one that says it is fine to make a billion dollars in a day speculating on the collapse of a country's currency, that kind of model

a reply to: Urantia1111

The spongers are the banks and financial institutions if you want to locate the people who do little to nothing for their money.

Indeed there is no scarcity regarding resources and energy, that's just an idea to keep you scared and worried.

You can recycle pretty much anything, ever thought about that?

a reply to: ForteanOrg

I never said work harder, for one.

By basic skills I mean a foundation of skills necessary to rely on oneself in order to survive in today's society, for instance, language, nutrition, economics, health, time-management, reading, writing and so on. Without such a foundation of knowledge, any subsequent planning or life-choices are severely hindered. This doesn't only apply to the 19th century, but all centuries.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

That's called proper education.

Speaking about the basic income, a neat little break-through just occurred in the UK
www.reddit.com...

Hey if people want to break their backs until they die by all means. That misplaced sense of pride seems to be more than enough for some.

a reply to: Benicealways

If everything was free nobody would have anything, nobody deserves more than a chance, failure to thrive is part of nature. If you didn't earn it and lose, to bad so sad. If you can't hunt, you starve, ohh well.

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
a reply to: Urantia1111

The spongers are the banks and financial institutions if you want to locate the people who do little to nothing for their money.

I know several investment bankers. Very stressful, long hours. Constantly watching markets, getting training, certifications and building more clients due to people dying. The work very hard from what I know. Most of them also start out making nothing. 0 for months until they slowly build their clients. Ever work for free for almost 6 months. It sucks.

originally posted by: LifeMode

originally posted by: MyHappyDogShiner
a reply to: Urantia1111

The spongers are the banks and financial institutions if you want to locate the people who do little to nothing for their money.

I know several investment bankers. Very stressful, long hours. Constantly watching markets, getting training, certifications and building more clients due to people dying. The work very hard from what I know.

I would imagine it IS hard work giving over so much of ones time in the hopes that someone rich and influential enough took notice and began paying you more than scraps.

a reply to: LifeMode

Heh, most of the markets are simply the work of bots already.

a reply to: corvuscorrax

How do you think those rich and influential people likely got their starts in investment banking? Some of them started working for almost 6 months making zilch until they built their client base.