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Iran Claims 'The Greatest Deterrent'

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posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
It is such a liberal "icon" to try to separate governments from the people. The people are the government. The governement "is" the people. It has no power, nor money without the people. It isn't some "thing" that exists all on it own.


I'll take these one at a time. The government is the people, although there comes a point in time when the government can and does operate independantly of the people and their will (some could make a case for that in America as we speak).

You speak of a world where if the government does something bad we can recitify it or overthrow them with ease. The same goes with many countries.

Did you forget the 30,000 dead Iraqis from an attemted coup with "US support" that never arrived? Things are not that simple


Iran is steadily marching to war. They have sponsored terrorism since the "revolution". The "people" overthrew the Shah....they can overthrow this "radical mullah" gov too. If not the radicals can not be allowed access to nukes, and the capability to deliver them. IRAN has chanted "death to America" for many years and that still continues today. Doing nothing about terror brought 911 and will end life on earth.


Perhaps, but maybe being globally agressive and authoritative in nations we hold no sway over might be construed as imperialistic regardless of the merit of our reasons and desires for peace and freedom.

Perspective is a bitch, one which doesn't seem to be on our side in the middle east.


And, it seems that "tolerance" is just a word for think and speak "my way" in the PC world of the liberals. I "hate" no one except evil. Nor will I be accused of it from the "tolerant" ones.


Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black. No offense man, but you are too angry to be having conversations like this.

Renouncing the liberal for being unrealistic and demonizing about you and your side while you are unrealistic and demonize in the same manner.

Your offense just has no staying power because it is invalid. What would Jesus do might be a pleasant thing to ponder for a while before coming back to post again.


Terrorist are cowards because they prey on the weak, ask others to commit suicide and murder the innocent, because they are afraid of death themselves.


Actually, they prey on the innocent (not always the weak), but to fight the powerful. Do you honestly think the people who perpatrated 9-11 were fighting the families of the people that died?

Hell no. They were fighting a guerilla war with AMERICA. Quite a dangerous and momentous thing to attempt if you ask me.


Iran's mullah's are afraid of the US, make no mistake. But their intent has been to MURDER each and every man, woman, and child in Israel. Then force the planet to convert to the false religion of Islam or die.

This is a fight for the survival of Christianity and Judaism on this planet.


Understand that we have no obligation to Israel in any way. If you are truely a Christian, you would know that there is no such THING and judaism any more.


I think you mainly overlook the inherant humanity that Christ wanted to get across to us.

The answer is love.

[edit on 18-1-2005 by KrazyJethro]




posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 01:05 PM
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The funny thing is that the mullahs say the same thing as the Dr, that western religion is an invention of satan etc. that its duty to Allah to have this evil vapourized etc etc. I wonder if you were born in Iran , you would probably have become a radical muslim instead of a radical cristian ?

Thusfar I haven't seen any evidence that shows the concept of God as painted by western religion is more realistic than that of eastern religion, for every bible quotation supposedly proofing something, you can find a text in the Quran.

As for the greatest deterrent, they must be referring to bad breath, unless china gave them one or two bombs to keep the oil flowing....


[edit on 18-1-2005 by Countermeasures]



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by MemoryShock

Originally posted by DrHoracid
Allah is not GOD, nor is budda, and so one, and so forth. Islam was created by satan to fool mankind. Islam denys Christ was the son of God and therefore is a false religion.
Anyone that prays to anyone or thing other than Jesus himself or God has been fooled.



Why bring god into it? and for that matter, what makes your religion so special just because you were born into it? Don't you realize the zealots on the other side of the pond think just like you, but with the pronouns rearranged? You either really believe all this holier than thou crappola you spew or you're here to cause problems.....many of your posts don't reflect the subject matter and instigate others by the ignorant generalities you insist on using as answers for everything. I choose not to ignore you because your posts remind me of the stagnation of mind that I continually strive against......Dr. Horacid


Iran is a fundamentalist Islamic state. It is sad that those of you in the "middle" seem to get trampled by us zealots. Sorry for the "hoof" prints.

I am very pleased you are so "enlighted" and I can provide a bit of superiority for your ego.



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 01:09 PM
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hasn't anyone figured out that Dr horacid is just a computer program that spews out contradictory statements to anything said...

just watch... now he will say that He IS REAL...and anyone who says different is a loser...

just kiddin... actually DR... i can understand many of your opinions, i just don't agree with many of them. You self contradict many times...
you seem to support Israel... but forget that they are True christians biggest opponant... (i agree that all todays "tv" christianity or fundamentalist versions are not true christian). After all, they did kill OUR savior... and he still tried to save them all the while... NOT BOMB THE CRAP OUT OF THEM.... so your attitude is anything but christian... where is the "turn the other cheek" ?

As to this situation... If we all thought the way you did,... then we need to give up now... becuase no one would survive a world wide nuclear war (for very long)
We are all trying to see/manifest a better way...
the first thing we need to do is win the hearts of moderate islam (and let them kill off their own defectives..) we can not do that by supporting israel.... they cause us too much trouble, with their policies...



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 01:18 PM
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Israel (actually judea) are still Gods chosen people. They still keep the "covenant" and the sign of the true sabbath. Yes, I am blessed to have been born where and when I was born. I have studied many other religions. My orignal "religion" was abandon many years ago. I am not a "Christian".

The world is rushing towards Armageddon. That train left a long time ago and no one can stop it.

To finish.........When Jesus returns to this planet it isn't with "open" arms. The gates to heaven are very narrow and I do not pretend to be among those blessed to enter. Christ is returning with great "wrath" to purge evil from this planet forever. Peace and Love are only half the equation.

Remember when Christ tossed the synagogue?

[edit on 18-1-2005 by DrHoracid]



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by Johnny Redburn

I know I should hit the ignore button, but this guy is just to funny.


woah, just had to add more laughs.





hit it a long time ago his replys arnt even worth the fraction of my bandwidth it use take up



why isnt he banned?



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by bodrul

Originally posted by Johnny Redburn

I know I should hit the ignore button, but this guy is just to funny.


woah, just had to add more laughs.





hit it a long time ago his replys arnt even worth the fraction of my bandwidth it use take up



why isnt he banned?


Are you that afraid of the truth? Is it "tolerant" to ban opposing views? What are you afraid of bod baby? I "tolerate" you.........

I hold no animosity for any of those that "hate" my words and perhaps me. I can forgive ignorance................



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 01:57 PM
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My God, these idiots have done one of three things,

first the less harmful more likely case, Iran is blowing smoke up our touches trying to mislead us into thinking they have nukes, as aploy to deter us, which you have to admit is a more powerful tool in the older days then now as our president doesnt yeild to threats , with his cowboy mentality of shoot first find out what they did later as in Iraq, as we all know this weekend it was publically noted that the search is over and no wmd's exist in Iraq.

The second possible course is they are confident in their military and have allies ready to move into the region which as we all know will over power our 150,000 men in the area quickly and they know we are spread thin enough to the four winds to only be able to offer up about 1/3 of that amount to leave Iraq right now in order not to loose our ground in Iraq and we can only muster about 75,000 to 100,000 quickly to move to Iran on short notice so if China, N Korea, or other allies join their already rested and stronger forces not already battle weary that they will slaughter our smaller probably 200,000 man force estimated availible to enter the area if needed, which would open the Iraq troops to desimation worse than seen to date as the Iraq insurgents will see a weakened force with no back up and step up operations bringing in their own reinforcements. And we also will loose ground in Afthganastan as we may have to pull from those troops as well there by putting up a fatal welcome sign to our opponents their as well, NOW WAIT we haven't even gotten to those in the battle group on the ground unarmed doing relief in one of the largest Muslim communities in the region, not to mention the goverment there wants our troops to drop the goods and be gone from the area today if p[ossible and we are not welcome, if they decide to jump on the band wagon and join up with know insurgents in that country that battle group will be desimated because they are not armed, not to say the tsunami torn countries are a risk but the muslims dont trust or like us as stated in Condi's hearing's opening remarks from the Minority Chair from Florida, I mean look at it this way hypothetically, Lets say Im a muslim and note I am note and dont claim to know how they think nor am implying anything, but never the less
Hypothetically I'm a muslim and I have stated I am uncomfortable with US military assets being on my soil, because of the US strong arming of other muslim countries through out the middle east, now the US starts with Iran another war against muslims, Im as a muslim going to get nervous that the US is going to use this large battle group to take my tsunami stricken country out while we are weak, My first choice is to make peace with the muslim extreamist insurgents in my country and gather up both forces and cause a desimating preimtive blow to the US battle fleet before they can get me, so in my opinion right know we are about to get hit on four and maybe 5 fronts all at once and we are going to as Iran stated be met with rain of fire and destruction.


Now the third possible choice about their statement is that most obvious and while possible yet unlikely possesion of fully battle ready nuke assets, they have the missles they have tested them all they need do is attatch war heads , now how is this possible yet unlikely we all know nukes give off tell tell signs of their presence during devlopement when seen by sattlelites right , ok fine but the same traits are put out by fully operational nuke power plants, here is my thought as inspections are random but carry with them enough warning why cant Iran be making those warheads in portable labs that are set up in the nuke sites they have all the tools at those plants they need, and when they have notice they are going to be inspected they ave always stalled a day or even up to 3 days what is to say there is not a way to conceal these mobile labs under the nuke plant while visual inspections are done, I know it's risky and could cause the plant to explode if the slightest error occurs but that does not negate the possibility that it can be done and the delay inspections offer enough time to do so, so in essence Im say the third possibility is this they have the war heads and they are ready to let them fly. Kinda scary huh.

All three of these possibilities lay right into their statement and whats worse is what if the second or third is the truth we, will be so utterly desimated so quickly that we will have no choice but to initiate a full draft and even then we are talking at least 6 weeks to train new people in basic survive and minimal combat skills. Which translates to this if we dont get overwhelming help from our allies in the event one of these two attack scenarios are utilized the we here at home are screwed boys and girls.


Well I must sound crazy but think it through while you may come up with some other possibilities it all ends the same way we are not ready to man wars in Afthganastan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the tsunami countries while thankful for the help have displayed at least in goverment levels a hostile intent towards us wanting us to leave because our reputation is that we are out to kill muslims and occupy their countries, this isn't the twilight zone kiddies this is real life and we need to wake up and look around Iran says if we attack them we will have bitten off more than we can chew and we will choke on it , Im tell ing you right now we are gasping for air and have already bitten of more than we can chew and Iran is just going to take that last breath we are able to get now and cut it off and with little to no effort, they know we are stretched thin and suffering casualties at a rapid rate in Iraq and they know we have assets tied up in Afthganastan and the Tsunami aid areas and they know we only have 150,000 troops to 200,000 troops immediately in stones throw away and that they are already fighting , we are an apple ripe for the picking, and lest we forget we have hardline opponents in South America just waiting to get a chance to march accross they mexican border into the US , boys and girls we got ourselves into a heep big barrel of trouble and we cant climb out.



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 02:30 PM
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oh my holy invented god..dr horacid, i simply can't decide wich post to quote, they are all full of hate and religious extremism. you are bitching about muslims that behave EXACTLY like you, where is the difference?the name of your so called god?
ridiculous..you are a good example for zero evolution in regard to humanity and tolerance, but you don't need this # because you are one of the choosen ones...just ridiculous. a shame for your country and your so called god+jesus..remember what jesus "said" about judging other people? what about killing? what if someone attacks you? ahhh nonsense..who cares...if god/jesus/allah/krishna or whoever will ever come back to earth, you will definitly have a special place reserved


[edit on 18-1-2005 by Hannah]



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
Israel (actually judea) are still Gods chosen people. They still keep the "covenant" and the sign of the true sabbath. Yes, I am blessed to have been born where and when I was born. I have studied many other religions. My orignal "religion" was abandon many years ago. I am not a "Christian".

The world is rushing towards Armageddon. That train left a long time ago and no one can stop it.

To finish.........When Jesus returns to this planet it isn't with "open" arms. The gates to heaven are very narrow and I do not pretend to be among those blessed to enter. Christ is returning with great "wrath" to purge evil from this planet forever. Peace and Love are only half the equation.

Remember when Christ tossed the synagogue?

[edit on 18-1-2005 by DrHoracid]


Yes, I do remember. I was there
.

The wraith is not yours, nor is revenge something for you to decide or doll out (or support in your government).

Love and compassion are the only equation that will work. The "show em who's boss" mentality might just be what they are mad about in the first place regardless of religion.

As for the "covenent", they do have a specific termination date. This one had one too, so if you know what it is then let the rest know about it.

Prove something outside of religion. Post anything that doesn't have vitriol laced through it and people can take you seriously.

Trust that it is not your words or your "truth" that people dislike. It is your condesending additude while you prance about proving nothing and invalidating everyone opinion but your own.

That would be the practical definition of ignorance, and it doesn't become you in the least.



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 03:37 PM
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This thread is not about you liking/disliking DrHoracid. Use the ignore button if you wish, but don't make the whole thread about this issue. Please stay on topic or the thread will be closed.

The topic for this thread is:
Iran Claims 'The Greatest Deterrent' (i.e. They have nuclear weapons)

I honestly think that Iran is just bluffing. If they do in fact have any form of a nuclear deterrent it would be by donation from Russia. They don't have the nuclear stockpile to carry out a nuclear war. One or two nuclear missiles won't win the war and they know that. It's a bluff.



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 03:41 PM
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Honestly I don't care who has nuclear weapons as far as countries go.

Many will say "But we can't trust those people with those weapons", but to be honest with you 95% of America can not honestly tell me the name of one person they would trust in the federal government.

I wouldn't loan them 100 bucks let alone trust them with weapons.



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by UK Wizard

Originally posted by Janus
If they had Nuclear weapons then they would have to be tested. That would have been detected about 3 seconds after detonation, even if the test had occured below ground. The US and Russia have very sensitive detection devices for this kind of thing. I dont think they have them yet, but i do think they are very close.


What about the possibilty of creating nuclear weapon but not testing them, would they risk such as tactic?
Then again it is Iran so the odds are they are lieing.



I think to develop a Nuke and not test it would, imo, be very dangerous and foolhardy. The slightest mistake would be catastrophic. Openhiemer(sp) was terrified that the first Nuclear explosion would set off a chain reation that would destroy the World that is how touch and go he thought it was. Legend says that after he witnessed the first detonation he was heard to say " Lo i have become death, the destroyer of Worlds." I have often wondered though if Iran has some Mercenary Ex-Soviet Nuclear Scientists on the pay roll. I believe someone with their experience could construct a war head and forgo the need for extensive testing.



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 07:10 PM
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First of all... 3 freakin cheers of Dbates! Gazrok has said a lot with relevance to the issue. Drbryankkruta has said a lot with relevance to the issue. I have attempted to contribute on topic as well... BUT a few extremist quips from somebody you dont even like get all the replies!???!

Gazrok says talk is cheap. A great song I know says "Talk is cheap but lies are expensive". The Iranians are probably lying about this deterrent and it's playing into Bush's hand.
They need to go to the UN being as calm and rational as they now how and make the case that if a US invasion would be illegal then international separating forces must be emplaced and consequences for invasion must be stated and ensured in advance.
Iran has a chance to not only protect itself but to set a revolutionary precedent for the international community, and with two or three security council members in their corner (China, Russia, and France) I think they may be able to make something happen.

If they could by some miracle convince Britain that peace was both morally and economically the right thing to do they'd have it made. The executive branch in the UK doesn't have the same free hand that ours does in the USA. If Iran played their cards right and appealed to the common man's sense of justice, they might gain limited support from a nation which has the political capital to force the USA into a Non Agression Pact.

In short- Iran needs to rise to the occasion and set an as yet unmatched example for pacifism and sincere diplomatic outreach on behalf of a threatened nation- they can't afford these repeated outbursts, which likely stem from unfortunate cultural differences and attendant misunderstandings of intent between West and Middle East. They think that only force will deter force, but force is the one thing that can not work for them.


Sep

posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 09:17 PM
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There was a report about Iran buying a few nukes from former USSR states a while ago. It said they bought it in 1996, or some time close to it, from Ukrain if my memory serves me right. It was quoted from a Russian general but I dont have a site or much information about it.



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 10:07 PM
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i would think that dirty bombs would be more likely thatn full fledged bombs as they would be easier to hid and to use.



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by Sep
There was a report about Iran buying a few nukes from former USSR states a while ago. It said they bought it in 1996, or some time close to it, from Ukrain if my memory serves me right. It was quoted from a Russian general but I dont have a site or much information about it.


The general in question was almost certainly Lebed. His most specific claim is that 40 of Russias SADMs (special atomic demolition munitions) aka suitcase nukes were not among the 1900 nuclear weapons Ukraine returned to Russia in 1994. He has been widely criticized and contradicted by Russian officials, although some have offered thin support by saying that those weapons were for the KGB's use and may not have been documented by the military.
I do not know if Lebed himself has made accusations of Iran having them. Extensive googling on my part turned up nothing concrete on that point- mostly speculation attached to the Lebed story and a lot of opinion pages with pro-Israel leanings.

The common story is that Ukraine sold its nukes to terrorists- Chechens and Afghans are the most commonly reported recipients. From there it is alleged that a nuclear facility operated in Kandahar, Afghanistan where Tajik scientists who had previously worked at Osirak reactor in Iraq prior to Israel's bombing of that facility attempted to develop additional weapons for Al Qaida while the original weapons were stored and kept secret for future use.
Al Qaida is also claimed to possess assorted biological weapons given by Russia, Ukraine, Czech Republic, and Iraq.

In my humble opinion this does not have the ring of truth. If I was Bin Laden and had 40 nukes that's checkmate. 40 nukes is more than enough to destroy the US government and economy as well as create serious strategic weaknesses in our military.

Really, even without nukes... if Al Qaida really has thousands of members, several national sponsors, and millions of dollars, then I bet you anything that they could pull off attacks that would all but eliminate the US as a world power. If Homeland Security is listening, I'll show you guys and I don't even want money for it; just get me a well paid think-tank job and promise not to send me to Guantanimo.



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 10:25 PM
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It is such a liberal "icon" to try to separate governments from the people. The people are the government. The governement "is" the people. It has no power, nor money without the people. It isn't some "thing" that exists all on it own.


On the contrary, the government becomes ever more so an entity of its own, real democracy doesent exist. people should Be the government but we all know its not so clearly so. Most people dont advocate mindless war! you Dr horacid are not included in this definition of "most people" im afraid.



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 10:33 PM
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drbryankkruta:

Your prose is curiously phrased and punctuated-- almost intentionally so?

Also I see no reference to the air or space programs which are active in all of the affected areas.

The Tsunami group ARE armed.. and you and I both know that the landmass of Indonesia is much more negotiable than Japan, if ever the need arose to pounce that group.


Regarding Iran, I wonder if there is some form of conditioning being employed in the media-- perhaps preparing the population for another preemptive attack? The skies over Iran have not been calm as of late. The nuclear question is a separate issue that becomes relevant in terms of risk assessment.

MK

[edit on 18-1-2005 by MKULTRA]



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 12:13 AM
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Iran's "Greatest Deterrent" may just in fact be the simplest deterrent of all: a vicious defense that involves every man, woman, and child in Iran.

The biggest concern for any war with Iran is the insane nationalism that would unite Persians against the U.S. in case of war. In other words, NOBODY, Persian or British, is gonna help or support the U.S. in a war with Iran. They have stated they can and will hold off a U.S. invasion and frankly, I believe them. It doesn't take any special weapons. Just take every person in Iran, get them on their feet, and they'll fight back. All hell will break loose.

It'll get to the point where the only option for the U.S. is to either withdraw or annihilate Iran. Tough choice. What Would Bush Do?



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