Okay, Which one is correct then?

a reply to: Akragon


Bravo. It's hard to find people here these days who can't have a back and forth civil dialogue like the great days of Athens. That's why we were always friends, you never made the disagreements personal.

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Apparently...

They will worship the Son of God... as it says

My position is that the Son took on flesh, that He is God. That's why the angels worship Him.

Oh i know... that is the standard Christian position

Regardless of its truth... Keep in mind i was a Christian all my life...

I know your beliefs brother

"Was"

What changed your beliefs?

a reply to: In4ormant

I believe Jesus' words at the last supper are pretty telling on what and who he considered himself to be.

Sure...

Who did Jesus give thanks to at the last supper?

Himself?

a reply to: In4ormant

"Was"

What changed your beliefs?

Hypocrisy... mainly

Contradictions In Christianity as opposed to what Jesus said.

and too much studying lol

I actually was told recently by a pastor that i studied the word TOO MUCH...

Funny because said person turned out to be one of the worst people i've ever met

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Remember a person who does not retain god in their knowledge or recognize god they are without understanding.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Romans 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Romans 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Sometimes it is just best to leave them alone to their lack of understanding than to try and convince them. You can't expect them to understand the truth of the scriptures when they are just using the mind of a unrepentant sinner and the lack of the Holy Ghost

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: In4ormant

I believe Jesus' words at the last supper are pretty telling on what and who he considered himself to be.

Sure...

Who did Jesus give thanks to at the last supper?

Himself?

It was just the strict custom in that day. He was following it. He always blessed and gave thanks.

a reply to: In4ormant
You cannot expect an unsaved person to understand the deity of Christ. Their minds are not capable of it until god opens the eyes of their heart.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: In4ormant

"Was"

What changed your beliefs?

Hypocrisy... mainly

Contradictions In Christianity as opposed to what Jesus said.

and too much studying lol

I actually was told recently by a pastor that i studied the word TOO MUCH...

Funny because said person turned out to be one of the worst people i've ever met

How much were you studying?

What hypocrisy do you mean?

originally posted by: In4ormant

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: In4ormant

I believe Jesus' words at the last supper are pretty telling on what and who he considered himself to be.

Sure...

Who did Jesus give thanks to at the last supper?

Himself?

It was just the strict custom in that day. He was following it. He always blessed and gave thanks.

Sure... Following his religion

He gave thanks to the Father...

Prayed and Worshipped HIM... Attributed all his work to HIM... and nothing to himself

Kinda sounds like he wasn't God to me

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: In4ormant
You cannot expect an unsaved person to understand the deity of Christ. Their minds are not capable of it until god opens the eyes of their heart.

I ask the questions I do because I see my earlier self in some people before I became a Christian.

originally posted by: In4ormant

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: In4ormant

"Was"

What changed your beliefs?

Hypocrisy... mainly

Contradictions In Christianity as opposed to what Jesus said.

and too much studying lol

I actually was told recently by a pastor that i studied the word TOO MUCH...

Funny because said person turned out to be one of the worst people i've ever met

How much were you studying?

What hypocrisy do you mean?

Its pretty much all i did back then... the bible, religious texts from other religions... but mainly early Christianity

This has been my reading list for so many years...

www.earlychristianwritings.com...

And theres a few other sites as well... I've read pretty much everything on that list...

The hypocrisy came from the people in the church, and those that claim to be Christian... I just realized that i wasn't like them at all... i genuinely care for people, whereas most went to church and claimed their titles for appearance sake... or to be able to hold something over other people

As IF making your sunday appearance makes you a good person

what a joke

a reply to: Akragon

Originally posted by Akragon
The Messiah wasn't ever supposed to be God in the flesh...

What about the whole Immanuel, “God with us” statement in Isaiah 7:14…

How did you manage to get around that one…?

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Just curious...



- JC

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: In4ormant

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: In4ormant

I believe Jesus' words at the last supper are pretty telling on what and who he considered himself to be.

Sure...

Who did Jesus give thanks to at the last supper?

Himself?

It was just the strict custom in that day. He was following it. He always blessed and gave thanks.

Sure... Following his religion

He gave thanks to the Father...

Prayed and Worshipped HIM... Attributed all his work to HIM... and nothing to himself

Kinda sounds like he wasn't God to me

I see why you believe what you do. I can't explain or speak for those actions that make you question it. Then you read this...

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name [singular] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit [Matthew 28:19]. All authority, father,son,spirit as one.

I used to do the same thing. I wasn't nearly as civil as you though

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: In4ormant

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: In4ormant

"Was"

What changed your beliefs?

Hypocrisy... mainly

Contradictions In Christianity as opposed to what Jesus said.

and too much studying lol

I actually was told recently by a pastor that i studied the word TOO MUCH...

Funny because said person turned out to be one of the worst people i've ever met

How much were you studying?

What hypocrisy do you mean?

Its pretty much all i did back then... the bible, religious texts from other religions... but mainly early Christianity

This has been my reading list for so many years...

www.earlychristianwritings.com...

And theres a few other sites as well... I've read pretty much everything on that list...

The hypocrisy came from the people in the church, and those that claim to be Christian... I just realized that i wasn't like them at all... i genuinely care for people, whereas most went to church and claimed their titles for appearance sake... or to be able to hold something over other people

As IF making your sunday appearance makes you a good person

what a joke

The behaviour of others shouldn't influence you.

What are your beliefs now?

a reply to: Joecroft

Easy...

Who called him Emmanual?

No one...

a reply to: In4ormant

I see why you believe what you do. I can't explain or speak for those actions that make you question it. Then you read this...

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name [singular] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit [Matthew 28:19]. All authority, father,son,spirit as one.

I used to do the same thing. I wasn't nearly as civil as you though

Well that passage is a serious problem actually...

The commandment that wasn't ever followed

And WHO gave him said power?

Himself? Or someone "Greater" as HE put it?

a reply to: Akragon

Originally posted by Akragon

Easy...

Who called him Emmanual?

No one...

lol

Well, they did say he was born of a virgin…and other people called him God…Thomas for example “my Lord and My God” etc…

Just wondering how you get around those things, considering you used to be a Christian…



- JC

a reply to: In4ormant

The behaviour of others shouldn't influence you.

What are your beliefs now?

That was only one of the many reasons...

My beliefs now... I Know God exists...

Its not a belief anymore, nor has it been for a long time...

I do believe the gospels are the words given by God to his son... but they've been tampered with, and they're not what Christianity tells its people

I do believe the OT entity is not God, but either an entity posing as the true God... or a fabrication of Man... Might be an alien... thats a tough one

Hell doesn't exist... and we all go to "the Afterlife" but we have no idea what that entails... perhaps a return trip here... but "the second death" is not real... the spirit is immortal, and a part of God

thats a pretty good summery

originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: Akragon

Originally posted by Akragon

Easy...

Who called him Emmanual?

No one...

lol

Well, they did say he was born of a virgin…and other people called him God…Thomas for example “my Lord and My God” etc…

Just wondering how you get around those things, considering you used to be a Christian…

- JC

actually the whole virgin birth thing is a deliberate mistranslation... one used to suit "prophecy"

And i don't believe for a second that Thomas called him God without Jesus literally slapping him... lol

It just doesn't fit the rest of the gospel story... and it only happens in the book of John

Likely never happened at all

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: In4ormant

I see why you believe what you do. I can't explain or speak for those actions that make you question it. Then you read this...

All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name [singular] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit [Matthew 28:19]. All authority, father,son,spirit as one.

I used to do the same thing. I wasn't nearly as civil as you though

Well that passage is a serious problem actually...

The commandment that wasn't ever followed

And WHO gave him said power?

Himself? Or someone "Greater" as HE put it?

Again, interpretation. Jesus has a journey through his life in which we see him connecting with man on a basic level. He is poor, ridiculed, harassed etc. He spoke to them in parables and spoke with them using common language. Maybe he phrased it that way so people would connect him with God. Maybe just walking around saying "I am God, do what I command now" wouldn't work. God could just make it all be perfect but what would be the point then?

I used to hang up on all those things as well, 35 years of my life I spent as an athiest. You can find discrepancies in just about anything if you look long enough and are trying to find them.