It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Ancient conceptualization of the Matrix

page: 3
27
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 08:18 AM
link   
a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness


a fine line between madness and truth... sane is still struggling to know the difference.

The debased practice is that the female oracles were considered expendable asset, easily replaced.

We don't (at least we better not) think of our oracles in that way.

Another aspect of debasement is the lack of freedom, the questions posed by the inquirer are not the questions of the oracle herself, but rather the questions of another. The oracle is forced to seek data not of her own personal choosing, not following the paths of her choosing, but those externally imposed by another. That is madness.

On the other hand, a free, non-expendable oracle may take paths and methods based upon her own inclinations, and in the process discover things she cares about and even what others care about. When she speaks then, it is as a shotgun blast, a pellet or two for one listener, maybe four for another. Madness, is thinking that one listener can take it all.

Not speaking for the OP, just the way I think it should be.
edit on 15-7-2016 by pthena because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 08:53 AM
link   
a reply to: pthena

I think a better example than the Greek in terms of practise would be that of the Nordic Seiðr, if we consider the origin of the term;


Seiðr is believed to come from Proto-Germanic *saiðaz, cognate with Lithuanian saitas, "sign, soothsaying" and Proto-Celtic *soito- "sorcery" (giving Welsh hud, Breton hud "magic"), all derived from Proto-Indo-European *soi-to- "string, rope", ultimately from the Proto-Indo-European root *seH2i- "to bind".

Related words in Old High German (see German Saite, used both in string instruments and in bows) and Old English refer to "cord, string," or "snare, cord, halter"

Nordic Seiðr


Keeping in mind that the proper definition of Religion is that to which one binds oneself, and noting also the association with bow strings, it was also the case that the key aspect of the cult of Ishara was the maintaining of oaths and bonds and malediction against any who broke such, thus again the question of entering into reciprocal relationship with an emphasis on integrity, not exploitation and dominance of any party within that binding.


Išhara, the gods of divine oath, malediction and death! Every god is hungry and thirsty. Come here, eat and drink! And accompany me! The entire badness, be purified from the house and the town; dirtiness, murder, perjury, sin, malediction be tied to the hands and feet, and be pulled to the underground!”

You, the Underground gods! Look, your tribute is given. Now receive this sacrifice! Now he sprinkled water to the fire And he said them like that: As this burning fire is extinguished, the persons who broke the oath also these oaths should catch like that and his life, his youthful energy, his safety, totally his woman and sons, they should eradicate and the oath gods should curse him dreadfully




The Nordic practise was open to both gender as also an aspect of the cult of Odin and could also involve collaborative effort on the part of the community;


These female practitioners were religious leaders of the Viking community and usually required the help of other practitioners to invoke their deities, gods or spirits. The seiðr ritual required not just the powers of a female spiritual medium but of the spiritual participation of other women within the Norse community: it was a communal effort. As they are described in a number of other Scandinavian sagas, Saga of Erik the Red in particular, the female practitioners connected with the spiritual realm through chanting and prayer

edit on Kam731196vAmerica/ChicagoFriday1531 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 10:32 AM
link   
a reply to: Kantzveldt


Blest be the tie that binds
Our hearts in Christian love;
The fellowship of kindred minds
Is like to that above.

Before our Father’s throne,
We pour our ardent prayers;
Our fears, our hopes, our aims are one,
Our comforts, and our cares.

We share our mutual woes,
Our mutual burdens bear;
And often for each other flows
The sympathizing tear.

When we asunder part,
It gives us inward pain;
But we shall still be joined in heart,
And hope to meet again.


Fawcett served for seven years, despite a small income and a growing family.[citation needed] It seemed only practical that he move to a church that paid a larger salary. When he received a call in 1772 to the large and influential Carter's Lane Baptist Church in London he planned to accept the call. But at the last minute he changed his mind, and remained at Wainsgate where his salary was £25 a year. To commemorate this event, in 1782 he wrote the words to his "Blest Be the Tie that Binds" hymn, his most famous hymn by far.
wikipedia-John Fawcett

I think the people who connect to a lower stream and those who connect to a higher stream are not disconnected one from the other. The piece that Byrd provided showed two different traditions: accept that from above, flee that from below. And a shift to "Put your hands into the soil". I don't know if it was a shift or perceived shift.

The Tree has roots and branches.
edit on 15-7-2016 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 10:40 AM
link   
a reply to: pthena

I dunno I've seen many countless children used as such puppets... twisted to purposes they wouldn't have chosen given encouragement of their own chosen purpose. Supporting notions out of tradition and towing lines of duty in a never ending tug of war that also calls for the same thing.

It's a cycle that has repeated many times and in many forms, every group or banner waiting for individual victims to become a horde or army to fight against others doing the exact same thing... all desiring happiness, even if that happiness comes from places of greed, hate, or power having others under their influence or control.

The intent is obviously still the same... trying to find a way to divine such things for ones own purposes. The reasoning is obvious; when ones so twisted know that their very twisted nature is what prevents them from attaining it themselves, so they must use others for such purposes as slaves. The victim of such things are typically unwitting or naive accomplices... once they gain wit or the naivety ceases, then there is of course the desire to then twist them towards the same degradations to add further insult to injury.

It's a sad thing really, but I've no empathy for such willful ignorance nor the perpetuation of it.

That doesn't mean I'd ever stoop to any level, the laws of karma and impermanence hold their own judges, courts, and executions for such matters that one doesn't have to even personally get involved in such base things.

Pointing directly and honestly of course, leaves no place for such to hide... of course the more brazen are proud of such things and fortunately for the world are somehow proud enough to keep showing it without hiding it under facades.

Of course under the policy of transparency and the paranoia that allows constant surveillance... theres no such place for them to hide any way, so the pointing doesn't really have to occur, the odd thing is watching all the dancing and self justification for such behaviors nearly all of society has deemed deplorable for a very long time.

The lines we lay... well they have a particular bias of energy to become ley lines, how someone defines themselves in such bias clearly defines their polarity of being as either positive in intent or negative in intent and when such drawings or pulls are an individual choice the banner one flies to rally more has really no meaning... as it is still an extreme side of the scales without balance.

So the mad scramble to get more to one side of such extremes of being or polarities assumes theres a ground or landing to walk on when enough weight tips to one side... curious though how heaven gets called upwards and hell downwards in such dual natures. When wrong is simply wrong no matter how many wish to say it's right.

Well, power lines... they crisscross and connect the world the energy that does so has no bias, those attached to form that energy traverses however? Seem to forget without the energy theres just no connection to form, so having a bias is a matter and using ones energy to display that bias is simply a utility of futility.

Ego doesn't care about the legacy it leaves... as long as people still talk about that conglomeration after they are long past, I suppose thats justification enough for many involved in such things no one would or really should be proud of as an accomplishment... sad and sort of pathetic to waste such potential but it happens.



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 10:58 AM
link   
a reply to: Kantzveldt

I interpret the following ancient Hermetic curriculum as either a guide out of the existing perceived matrix or transcending to one's newly manifested matrix, by changing one's consciousness or perhaps one's energy frequency.


"The Hermetic Curriculum

Until comparatively recently there was very little information available concerning the method of spiritual progress that the Hermeticists may have followed. The Nag Hammadi Library, discovered in 1945, contains at least one scripture whose content is unmistakably Hermetic. This is Tractate 6 of Codex VI, whose title is usually translated as The Discourse on the Eight and the Ninth. On the basis of this discourse, one of its early translators suggested a scheme of progress that was followed by some of the schools of Hermeticists.4

A Hermetic catechumen would begin with a process of conversion, induced by such activities as reading some of the less technical Hermetic literature or listening to a public discourse. A period of probation, including instruction received in a public setting, was required before progressing to the next stage.

This phase would be characterized by a period of philosophical and catechetical studies based on certain Hermetic works. (The Asclepius and the Kore Kosmou may be examples of such study material.) This instruction was imparted to small groups.

The next step entailed a progress through the Seven Spheres or Hebdomad, conducted in a tutorial format, one student at a time. This seems to have been a process of an experiential nature, aided by inspiring topical discourses. In this progression, the candidate is envisioned as beginning his journey from earth and ascending through the planets to a region of freedom from immediate cosmic influences. (The planets were regarded mostly as influences of restriction, which the ascending spirit must overcome.) One may note a close resemblance of this gradual ascent to similar ascensions outlined in various Gnostic sources, as well as to the later Kabbalistic patchwork on the Tree of Life.

The final step was what may be called the Mystery Liturgy of Hermes Trismegistus, of which The Discourse of the Eighth and the Ninth is often regarded as a good example. Here the Hermeticist is spiritually reborn in a transcendental region beyond the seven planets. His status is now that of a pneumatic, or man of the spirit. (Note once again the similarity with Gnosticism.) This level entails an experience of a very profound, initiatory change of consciousness wherein the initiate becomes one with the deeper self resident in his soul, which is a portion of the essence of God. This experience takes place in a totally private setting. The only persons present are the initiate and the initiator (called "son" and "father" in this text). The liturgy takes the form of a dialogue between these two.

The Hermeticists had their own sacraments as well. These appear to have consisted primarily of a form of baptism with water and an anointing resembling "a baptism and a chrism" as mentioned in the Gnostic Gospel of Philip. The Corpus Hermeticum mentions an anointing with "ambrosial water" and a self-administered baptism in a sacred vessel, the krater, sent down by Hermes from the heavenly realms."

www.gnosis.org...



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 12:18 PM
link   

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness


a fine line between madness and truth... sane is still struggling to know the difference.

The debased practice is that the female oracles were considered expendable asset, easily replaced.


I don't believe this is true - at least not in the Greek world. In spite of their treatment of women, the Pythia was exceptionally valuable (and so were other priestesses.) For example, at Argive Hera, one entered the temple past statues of the former kleidouchoi ("Keyholders"... the chief priestess)

Here's a PDF of a really neat book you might like on Greek cults



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 12:29 PM
link   
a reply to: Byrd

Thank you once again.

In the scene from 300 (which I haven't watched since it first came out) King Leonidas shows distain for the practice of bringing in the girls from the neighboring villages and burning them out.

I'm guessing there is a big difference between that type of oracle and a priestess. Thank you for the link. I will read it.



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 12:39 PM
link   

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Byrd

Thank you once again.

In the scene from 300 (which I haven't watched since it first came out) King Leonidas shows distain for the practice of bringing in the girls from the neighboring villages and burning them out.

I'm guessing there is a big difference between that type of oracle and a priestess. Thank you for the link. I will read it.



ROFL!

Uhm... "300" got EVERYTHING about the culture wrong!

I noticed, for instance, that they didn't actually show the semi-enforced homosexual pederasty that was part of the Spartan culture (the Agoge)

They did get the names right, however.
edit on 15-7-2016 by Byrd because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 12:55 PM
link   
a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

I can't disagree with your observations.




power lines... they crisscross and connect the world the energy that does so has no bias, those attached to form that energy traverses however? Seem to forget without the energy theres just no connection to form, so having a bias is a matter and using ones energy to display that bias is simply a utility of futility.

Perhaps. Magical, mystical, occult, spiritual, arcane, and etc. feels that the connection(network) is influenced by the input. Two-way channel. I don't know if that can be objectively verified or not.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this. If the point is: Running around waving one banner as apposed to another banner is a waste of energy? If that's the point, then yes I agree.

The song lyrics I posted above: I watched 4 youtube videos looking for a decent one, couldn't find one. All were performances. In a real communal participation in the song there is a real connection formed, not so in a performance.



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 01:00 PM
link   
a reply to: Byrd


ROFL!

Uhm... "300" got EVERYTHING about the culture wrong!

So I was countering a strawman? Now I feel foolish. Better to find out though.

I think I'll take a break from trying to answer questions and switch to asking.
ETA:
But BigBrotherDarkness has observed real life examples of the strawman, and pointed them out. Maybe the strawman applies to present society.
edit on 15-7-2016 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 01:16 PM
link   
a reply to: pthena

Yes were the Holy Spirit is that which binds, and the fact that the premise for that very closely related to the Mandaean Ruha were distinction is made between the Earth centric generation of the planetary archetypes through Ruha and the Masculine Celestial archetypes, and the looking toward the rehabilitation and perfection of Ruha.


Then, when she reacheth the Seven Mysteries, servitors of the Seven go forth towards her. They come and surround her and question her and say to her, "O soul, whence comest thou and whither goest thou ?'' I say to them, "I come from the Body, the name of which is the Earth and I am going towards the Good Consumination ".

They say to me, "Whose servant art thou and whose envoy art thou called ?'' I say to them, "I am the servitor of the Beloved Consummation, and the envoy of the vast Ether"


Mysterious Mandaeans

The Rehabilitation of Ruha

Ruha was related to the former cult of Ashera/Ishara, an Earth bound spiritual force that generates both good and evil, though as i've noted in Hurrian tradition Ishara was more a regulatory factor and Allani the personification of the network, the Heptad of the Sun/light would closely correlate to the Holy Spirit.


In Mandaeanism, this name refers to an evil female spirit allied with the Jewish God (whom the Jewish call Adunay). They believe that Ruha d-Qudsha founded Jerusalem and, together with her sons, the seven planets.



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 01:24 PM
link   
a reply to: Kantzveldt


looking toward the rehabilitation and perfection of Ruha.

And I remember you mentioned the rehabilitation.

I think I have an overabundance of materials to read now. I will read now.

Thank you.



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 02:12 PM
link   
a reply to: InTheLight

I find there is something of a disconnect in Hermeticism were the emphasis is on the Celestial abstraction and baseless conjecture and the actual source of Earth generated consciousness is simply ignored or indeed classed in entirely negative terms as corrupted Materia, such that perfection could only be found in Celestial realms.

That's something of a negative generalization but a pattern of development can be observed from the time of the Atenists through to the cult of Yahweh toward the Celestial abstraction and the suppression of Earth centric practise and i consider Hermeticism as an extension of such, were the idea of the thing became more important than actual religious practise in Greece, and you simply end up with Masonic Deists.

Of course one needs to consider the balance between the Universal Celestial archetypes and the Earth generated physical-spiritual relationship, but there's nothing to suggest that living void of physical existence is either desirable or possible for an Earth based life form.



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 05:28 PM
link   
a reply to: Kantzveldt

Perhaps they viewed themselves more as spiritual energy beings rather than restricting themselves to being only Earth-bound physical life forms.



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 05:28 PM
link   
a reply to: Kantzveldt

Perhaps they viewed themselves more as spiritual energy beings rather than restricting themselves to being only Earth-bound physical life forms.



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 07:05 PM
link   

originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Byrd


ROFL!

Uhm... "300" got EVERYTHING about the culture wrong!

So I was countering a strawman? Now I feel foolish. Better to find out though.


Don't feel bad -- the Internet Age is the Age of Easily Found Misinformation.

History is a very difficult subject -- you are taught to go back to original sources which (usually) aren't in modern English. You have to read up on the culture of an area before you can piece things together, and sometimes the symbolism really isn't that clear (as an example, the "magical wands/knives" of hippopotamus ivory of the Egyptian Middle Kingdom.)

If it's an important topic, we don't just take the word of one person or one site...we look for "who argued against this and why and are their points really valid?"

It's a fun (endless) rabbit hole.



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 07:38 PM
link   

originally posted by: Kantzveldt
That's something of a negative generalization but a pattern of development can be observed from the time of the Atenists through to the cult of Yahweh toward the Celestial abstraction and the suppression of Earth centric practise


I should take the time to point out that:
* Atenism existed for less than 20 years and promptly died with Akhenaten
* Akhenaten said that he was the only one who could talk to the Aten (all prayers, etc, were directed toward him... as was the temple incomes) He made all the rules for Atenism, and his police force enforced compliance to Atenism within Amarna with whips and clubs.
* in order for it to have persisted, it needed priests. While Neferneferuamun might have continued it for their brief reign, in practice, Akhenaten and his family were the only priests.

So there wasn't a tradition of Atenism.



posted on Jul, 15 2016 @ 08:13 PM
link   
a reply to: InTheLight

It may or may not be obvious but the influence of the older cakra or modern form chakra(wheel) or 7 turnings are where this system was borrowed and transliterated into common language, as it is none of the language in the practice that matters but the practice itself.

So whether one calls them the 7 wheels, 7 lotus, or the 7 planets, or whatever doesn't matter as far as the actual process or pathway is followed irregardless of the cultural dogmatic or the liaisons involved; other initiates, adherents, priests, personifications, embodiments, attainers or what have you. The result or transmission is the same... as it all ends in the very same place of being.

Of course, it is important to have respect for all of those that have passed through such gates, that have kindly pointed the way no matter how futile with any words dogmas or representatives it may have or incur from then all the way to now and on into the future. As all such pointing, gleaning, pouring over texts in philosophical(sophist) grasping cannot be comprehended in any rote comprehension... but all such phenomenon that arises in ones very own spheres or doors of perception, apperception is simply the use of all that previous pointing or teachings that has gone on before to make sure one is not lost or wayward on the path to attainment, of course with arms and mind full how could anyone hold such a thing if offered?

The old Zen maxim? Empty your cup. That is of course one wants to empty it of all the blood one has spilled via body, speech, and mind in all ones past, present, and future for eternal life as the great elixir. The cup that people have called the one of Christ then becomes obvious... and the blood of the lamb is of course all of the children people have slaughtered and continue to prepare for slaughter birth after birth in their ignorance being so attached to the concepts that delude instead of enlighten.

Of course such is the way of the world in it's dual nature... thinking one is apart from nature it becomes a self-fulfilling other forcing prophesy, that only serves to recreate such madness over and over generation after generation due to the greed and hate that keeps them bound on that wheel called birth and death simply known as life after life after life, until one ceases such ignorant grasping that leads to death after death after death and actually for once lives.

If such a thing where a gift that could just be handed, then it would be so... since it isn't birth(becoming) continues that allows chance after chance. Each new form that harnesses life isn't a gift to anyone except that being itself and endowed with their own gifts on birth. Stripping that away and twisting such for one's own purposes is one of constant toil and slavery of each others ignorance. The gift is responsibility to foster the greatest of that beings potential as possible. In such a way society advances and grows... and doesn't choke or stagnate.

Of course, we do not have to have children to exercise such responsibility... and this is where ethics come in morals are too easily twisted towards one ideology to clear out the mess the world is currently in... secularism of respect for all of the systems negates the demand that any single one is correct when all of them properly applied are.

Unfortunately, greed is happy to fuel the fires of ignorance into flames of hate... for no purpose other than consumption it is a cancer that constantly consumes. Every green forest of life and growth eventually a desert of despair and death. When such wants to traverse such ignorance world to world in conquest and conquer for such systems simply because one cannot be balanced in sustainability it's a shame. How many does humanity think it takes for such balance?

who knows who knows.



posted on Jul, 16 2016 @ 02:36 AM
link   
a reply to: Byrd

I disagree and wrote my opinions here were i considered that Atenism was the result of developments within the cult of Re based upon their solar observations and reflections and that there was an inner circle that persuaded Akenhaten to embrace Atenism in order to further their own cause, that after his demise and their forced departure they continued their tradition among the Hebrews in the form of Yahwism, the positing of an unknowable and Masculine Celestial abstraction, and the suppression of all other cultic practise.

a reply to: InTheLight

But Physics informs us that an Earth bound life form is already an energy being...



edit on Kam731197vAmerica/ChicagoSaturday1631 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2016 @ 10:33 AM
link   
a reply to: Kantzveldt

In my quest to learn of shamanic ways and contribute to this thread's main topic, that being ley (solar energy) lines or spirit paths, I came across this bit of history you may find interesting. It appears there exist both ying and yan energies (sometimes separate, sometimes together and balanced) in ley lines, water lines, power centers (ley and water lines together), and magic centres all affecting human behaviour and layers of consciousness. And most commonly where one might find ancient monuments.




In the late seventies, I belonged to a group called the New England Antiquities Research Association (NEARA), which studies the historic and prehistoric past of New England. There are many interesting stone and earth monuments all over New England that NEARA helps locate, preserve and study.

One summer day, I drove to the top of a mountain in central Vermont. At the top, I parked and started walking around. I get a certain feeling at power centers and I was picking up on this feeling as I found a standing stone and a recumbent stone with Iberian Ogam inscriptions believed to have been written by European Celts 3000 years ago. So much for Columbus "discovering" America. At the center of this cosmic place is a beautifully preserved underground chamber called Calendar II because it is oriented to the midwinter sunrise. If you sit inside the chamber and look out the entranceway on the morning of the winter solstice, December 21, the sun will rise in the center of the entrance. Analysis by archeoastronomer Byron Dix shows that the chamber was also used in lunar observations and eclipse prediction. This is only one of many such sites found all over New England. This chamber, like most other such chambers, is located over an underground water spring and a ley-line power center.

As I entered the chamber, I felt a palatable presence in the air, an increase in energy density, an intensity of experience. It came to me that this chamber was specially designed to evoke these kinds of feelings and experiences. The overhead lintel stones weigh approximately three tons each. I couldn't stay in the chamber for more than five minutes. The "volume" of the energy in this place was too high for my tastes and sensitivity.

Monuments harbor the potential for universal creative power that can be directed for the progress of humanity. In India, such spots are called tantrapieds, places for liberation and enlightenment. These sacred places have a very spiritual vibration, facilitating deep meditation and contemplation. When a person stands on a water line, ley line or power center, the field of the water line affects the person and their own field, or aura. Just like the heat waves we can see rising off a highway on a hot summer day, there is a similar, semi-visible emanation all around our body which, under special conditions, can be seen as a field of light three to twenty-four inches or more silhouetted around our body. You may have seen someone's aura as a faint light or glow around their head, especially when they are next to a light-colored wall.

So far we have discussed three kinds of Earth energies: water lines; ley lines; and ley-line power centers, with yin, yang and balanced (yang-yin) fields. There are other kinds of Earth energies that also affect us. One example of such a power center is at kivas in the Southwest United States. When visiting Bandelier National Monument in New Mexico, I stood in the area where a kiva, now ruined, had been. I could feel power and a yin, telluric force field. The kiva was a sort of magnetic center into which energies were drawn from the surrounding countryside, and then drawn upward into a concentrated vortex


www.geo.org...



new topics

top topics



 
27
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join