New plot to dump Trump at Convention

originally posted by: olaru12
You're correct about the 7 billion part but Trump is a huuuuugeeee topic of interest in the developed world. And he is soundly mocked and ridiculed as a Presidential candidate.

The GOP convention will be watched world wide, you betcha!

My point was in relation to the 7 billion. The claim was that the majority of the 7billion people in the world think he is unfit to be POTUS. I can not see how that claim can be supported and thus it is just nonsense.

As for the developed world, I would agree that perception is negative, however it means very little. Outside of the US the coverage is just not the same. The 'news' most of the world sees is limited to headline grabbing and click baiting news like 'muslim bans'. The people I talk to in the UK could not cover even 10% of the issues that have been covered since June 2015 and the standard response when I ask people about Trump tends to refer to a muslim ban or his hair.

The truth is even in America the level of understanding is limited, even with wall to wall coverage.

@blueajah's point is correct in my view. The debate about Trump needs to move beyond the ridiculous and often false media coverage. I would say it even needs to move beyond whether he is a nice guy or not. You don't have to be nice, as long as you are not corrupt, to lead.

a reply to: UKTruth

The truth is even in America the level of understanding is limited, even with wall to wall coverage.

I can agree with that. American voters primarily vote on perception and with Donalds insults of women, Hispanics, Jews and the disabled; He is largely perceived as a self obsessed geek!

A perfect choice for President considering the current American culture.

However I still maintain that their are black forces that will not allow Donald to even get near the WH.

There is also this which I posted before but not as a link (and then got accused of making it up!)

When asked, during the whole UK ban Donald Trump petition, in an online poll by the Telegraph (more highly educated readership in the UK), 39.337 people have responded with two options:

1) Yes ban, Donald Trump is a hate preacher - 49%
2) No don't ban, Donald Trump talks a lot of sense - 51%

Not really the kind of conclusive hatred one would expect from reading media headlines.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: UKTruth

The truth is even in America the level of understanding is limited, even with wall to wall coverage.

I can agree with that. American voters primarily vote on perception and with Donalds insults of women, Hispanics, Jews and the disabled; He is largely perceived as a self obsessed geek!

A perfect choice for President considering the current American culture.

However I still maintain that their are black forces that will not allow Donald to even get near the WH.

I have never heard him insult all women, all jews, all hispanics or all disabled. Believe it or not some people in those groups are nasty people that deserve the truth to be told about them. For example, if one calls a woman ugly or demeans a women in some way, it does not mean that person views all women the same way.

a reply to: UKTruth

You twisted what I said, which was this:

". There are 7 billion other people whose opinions matter just as much as yours,"

BlueAjah's opinion is just hers - perhaps you don't agree with me, but one person's opinion doesn't matter any more than any other person's opinion. I was speaking in that clause to the general value of opinions.

": and most of us realize that he's not the best choice." Here I meant that most of us who are reading about this debacle realize he's a bad and controversial lit fuse. My mistake was adding the colon, I guess. I understand why you would misinterpret.

Here's let's try it again:

The number of Internet users has increased from 738 million in 2000 to 3.2 billion in 2015, according to a new report from the International Telecommunication Union.May 26, 2015

Here's How Many Internet Users There Are | MONEY - Time
time.com/money/3896219/internet-users-worldwide/Time

That was a year ago. I am sure more are connected now. That makes about HALF of the world's population connected to the internet. Barring censorship, billions of people are aware of the POTUS situation - even if only vaguely and even if largely indifferent. When one considers that the other half are largely babies or illiterate or rural or uneducated or all of those, and are living in squalid slums all over the place - or on a dusty patch of the Australian outback - .....

you're smart enough to get what I'm saying.

Now ...... fact remains, that of a certain population of likely voters in America who were polled, 70% find him wanting at best, and exceedingly dangerous at worst.

Clearer now?

a reply to: UKTruth

1) Yes ban, Donald Trump is a hate preacher - 49%
2) No don't ban, Donald Trump talks a lot of sense - 51%

Funny how that almost perfectly mirrors your "Brexit" exercise.

You know, friend, if anyone on this board has given Trump a fair hearing and a decent audience, I have. And I'm a liberal, a Sanders supporter! I even made a thread about why Trump's allegedly "not so bad." I presented it here for ATS to review and discuss it! I got beat up in that thread by the "never-Trump!ers", and now I'm getting beat up by the "only-Trump!ers."

Kindly show some respect and don't give me such short shrift. I've been paying attention, forcing myself out of my comfort zone, and looking these devils in the face. Another line from the story about Veronica Franco (a renaissance courtesan in Venice - a real person who wrote an autobiography). The film is called Dangerous Beauty:

Whichever devil you choose, you will look him in the eyes first, which is more than my mother ever gave to me.

That's what her mother told her when she offered her the choice - be a convent nun, or be an educated, wealthy, respected courtier who earns a living being a good prostitute to the court officials and politicans.

What is stunning to me is that the corruption is out in the open now. They don't care that the entire planet sees their machinations to remove Trump from the equation.

They know there isn't a damn thing the little people can do about it.

a reply to: UKTruth

I have never heard him insult all women, all jews, all hispanics or all disabled. Believe it or not some people in those groups are nasty people that deserve the truth to be told about them.

I find your emotional protection of Trump slightly odd....of course you only hear what you want to hear just as do the American voters, thus my comment about "perception" perhaps you either missed it or ignored it.

Doesn't matter...by the time the election rolls around with Clinton's media blitz; Donald Trump won't even be a consideration to anyone except his conservative core. They just don't have the numbers to be a political force with the GOP DOA....

What I find curious is that Trump is aware of this, yet he keeps on being a dick.....what's up with that? Something else I find slightly odd.

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: UKTruth

I have never heard him insult all women, all jews, all hispanics or all disabled. Believe it or not some people in those groups are nasty people that deserve the truth to be told about them.

I find your emotional protection of Trump slightly odd....of course you only hear what you want to hear just as do the American voters, thus my comment about "perception" perhaps you either missed it or ignored it.

Doesn't matter...by the time the election rolls around with Clinton's media blitz; Donald Trump won't even be a consideration to anyone except his conservative core. They just don't have the numbers to be a political force with the GOP DOA....

What I find curious is that Trump is aware of this, yet he keeps on being a dick.....what's up with that? Something else I find slightly odd.

I think you have it backwards - it's not emotional to actually state a fact... i.e. criticising a woman does not equal criticising all women. The emotional element comes from those who would sensationalise any comment to mean far more than it actually does. Take the star put on a tweet by Trump. It takes some serious emotional reaction to that to turn it into anti-semitism, but that is what happened.

I prefer to stick to what someone actually says rather than making it mean something that fits an agenda. Spending less time sensationalising and looking for insinuation and more time listening would make the world a far better place, and less divided.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: UKTruth

You twisted what I said, which was this:

". There are 7 billion other people whose opinions matter just as much as yours,"

BlueAjah's opinion is just hers - perhaps you don't agree with me, but one person's opinion doesn't matter any more than any other person's opinion. I was speaking in that clause to the general value of opinions.

": and most of us realize that he's not the best choice." Here I meant that most of us who are reading about this debacle realize he's a bad and controversial lit fuse. My mistake was adding the colon, I guess. I understand why you would misinterpret.

Here's let's try it again:

The number of Internet users has increased from 738 million in 2000 to 3.2 billion in 2015, according to a new report from the International Telecommunication Union.May 26, 2015

Here's How Many Internet Users There Are | MONEY - Time
time.com/money/3896219/internet-users-worldwide/Time

That was a year ago. I am sure more are connected now. That makes about HALF of the world's population connected to the internet. Barring censorship, billions of people are aware of the POTUS situation - even if only vaguely and even if largely indifferent. When one considers that the other half are largely babies or illiterate or rural or uneducated or all of those, and are living in squalid slums all over the place - or on a dusty patch of the Australian outback - .....

you're smart enough to get what I'm saying.

Now ...... fact remains, that of a certain population of likely voters in America who were polled, 70% find him wanting at best, and exceedingly dangerous at worst.

Clearer now?

Yes clearer

The part that people need to realise is that some people who have a very negative view of Trump are still going to vote for him. I for one find him to be a very brash and somewhat annoying individual, yet I understand very well that the basic tenet of what he says is what the world needs right now - a complete change in western foreign policy and a reversal of the march to globalism. The world is in a mess right now, probably closer to world war than at any time since the end of the cold war. We can't continue on this trajectory. Whether Trump actually would do anything he says he will is another matter, but it's time for a risk not more of the same.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: UKTruth

1) Yes ban, Donald Trump is a hate preacher - 49%
2) No don't ban, Donald Trump talks a lot of sense - 51%

Funny how that almost perfectly mirrors your "Brexit" exercise.

You know, friend, if anyone on this board has given Trump a fair hearing and a decent audience, I have. And I'm a liberal, a Sanders supporter! I even made a thread about why Trump's allegedly "not so bad." I presented it here for ATS to review and discuss it! I got beat up in that thread by the "never-Trump!ers", and now I'm getting beat up by the "only-Trump!ers."

Kindly show some respect and don't give me such short shrift. I've been paying attention, forcing myself out of my comfort zone, and looking these devils in the face. Another line from the story about Veronica Franco (a renaissance courtesan in Venice - a real person who wrote an autobiography). The film is called Dangerous Beauty:

Whichever devil you choose, you will look him in the eyes first, which is more than my mother ever gave to me.

That's what her mother told her when she offered her the choice - be a convent nun, or be an educated, wealthy, respected courtier who earns a living being a good prostitute to the court officials and politicans.

Indeed it does mirror the Brexit vote, thought whether it's the same people voting the same way is anyone's guess.
My guess is that the division here is not about left/right or rich/poor etc.. it's a fight between globalism and centralisation of power and wealth vs nationalism and local control.

a reply to: UKTruth

I understand very well that the basic tenet of what he says is what the world needs right now - a complete change in western foreign policy and a reversal of the march to globalism. The world is in a mess right now, probably closer to world war than at any time since the end of the cold war. We can't continue on this trajectory. Whether Trump actually would do anything he says he will is another matter, but it's time for a risk not more of the same.

Fully agree with you.

More of the same is the road to hell.....

the USA is, I believe, gripped in the throes of a civil war even as we speak.....fits and starts and spurts and pauses, but civil war it is.
The election is not helping things, either.
I think the election cycle is far, far too protracted. You all have what, a six-weeks marathon and then it's done, right?

We need that. It seems that, like war, there is NEVER "no election" going on in the USA.

I'm more of an isolationist than you might imagine.
I think the USA should butt out of other countries.....whether that interference is as trouble-makers, or peace-keepers, or diplomats, or deal-brokers, or businesses, or employers, or tax cheats, or charities, or proselytizing religious people, or military troops - we have enough troubles here to last the lifetimes of every person living this very moment - including the newest born! - and those problems need to be addressed yesterday, and before any further "aid" to anyone else (especially Israel! Israel is a big girl now, she should be standing on her own! But no, because learned helplessness). I'm against border walls and muslim bans; I'm pro-immigration and pro-education.....

We need to pull up all stakes everywhere and come home. There's work to do.

Anyway, glad we got that cleared up. Yes, we need change. But after careful consideration of the 'evidence' that has been brought to my attention and/or sought out, I don't think Trump is the best choice to do that.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: UKTruth

I understand very well that the basic tenet of what he says is what the world needs right now - a complete change in western foreign policy and a reversal of the march to globalism. The world is in a mess right now, probably closer to world war than at any time since the end of the cold war. We can't continue on this trajectory. Whether Trump actually would do anything he says he will is another matter, but it's time for a risk not more of the same.

Fully agree with you.

More of the same is the road to hell.....

the USA is, I believe, gripped in the throes of a civil war even as we speak.....fits and starts and spurts and pauses, but civil war it is.
The election is not helping things, either.
I think the election cycle is far, far too protracted. You all have what, a six-weeks marathon and then it's done, right?

We need that. It seems that, like war, there is NEVER "no election" going on in the USA.

I'm more of an isolationist than you might imagine.
I think the USA should butt out of other countries.....as trouble-makers, or peace-keepers, or businesses, or military troops - we have enough troubles here to last the rest of the lives of every person living this very moment - including the newest born!

Anyway, glad we got that cleared up. Yes, we need change. But after careful consideration of the 'evidence' that has been brought to my attention and/or sought out, I don't think Trump is the best choice to do that.

There tends to be an election somewhere in the UK most of the time too, whether general or bi elections or EU elections. The big difference is your primary process. The party leaders here get elected far quicker and there is no nationwide vote on it.

I have to admit, the Primary's in the US are very tiring and very divisive. This year, for both Republicans and Democrats, it was a disaster and it feels like it's only going to get worse between Clinton and Trump. That kind of unfiltered mud slinging doesn't really happen in the UK. Tends to be a bit more subtle, less provocative. Brexit was probably the exception.

a reply to: UKTruth

Yup. This cycle has exhausted us. We are all just dazed and totally in foreign territory. It's terribly scary.

Holy smokes - have you seen the latest Iowa polls... Clinton was leading by 14 points in June and the latest poll just came in with Trump +2. Trump also at +5 in Florida from Clinton +4 just a month ago...

Those NeverTrump GOPers better be careful about trying to disrupt the convention if that kind of trend holds in other swing states.