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The problem I see with the Liberal Movement.

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posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:03 AM
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Ok there is a a lot of Liberals I do respect, even if I don't agree with. They generally want to try and make the world a better and fairer place.
I might not agree with there ideas but I do respect them. And they play a important role of opposition trying to temper the governments or conservatives more extreme approaches.

Then you have the "new age" Liberals.........
Then seems to make a mockery of the whole Liberal movement.
Generally they seem to be among the young and what some may call the "snow flakes".

Instead of equality for all they them to focus specific minority groups and the expense of others.

They make "equality" to far to the moment the groups they are promoting for have MORE than equality. (IE Feminazis, Affirmative action advocates)

They make apologies for certain groups and action even though those groups stand for everything they are against (Extremist Islam).

And what im seeing in the the UK they are adopting unpopular and minority positions even those those position are really against Liberal ides.
Eg the EU.
Many of these new age liberals in the UK are up in arms at leaving the EU. Even though the EU is a faceless, undemocratic bureaucratic government that is out of touch with the locals and in the pocket of the very banks and corporations they were protesting against a few years ago!

Pretty much these "new age" Liberals are hypocrites. They makes mockery of the liberal movement in general.

Quite frankly I think they are kids just wanting to rebel for the sake of rebelling without any idea of them implications of there stance.
edit on 6-7-2016 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-7-2016 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:07 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok

Well said crazy, I'm sorry the cancer has spread to the U.K...



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:08 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok

I just dont think that Liberal ideology is compatible with human nature in the long term.

Divisions exist among us. It is futile to pretend there arent any.

Liberal ideology might be more suited for a more evolved species...as long as we are what we are today...liberalism is akin to utopia.



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:10 AM
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originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: crazyewok

Well said crazy, I'm sorry the cancer has spread to the U.K...


The Liberal movement in the UK brought us a lot of good thinks the last 50 years.

But like the UK they just seems to have been hijacked for extreme and somewhat crack pot idea.
Most of which are contradictory.



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:11 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok

You started this in "the Mud Pit."

Do you intend it to be a reasonable discussion of your points, or just another variation on a "liberal bash-fest"?



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:13 AM
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If it gains traction in the U.K., like it did in the U.S., it's only going to get worse......and worse......and worse, till you have 3 people screaming they're being oppressed and changing policy for the entire country. They claim to want Freedom for all, but only till you disagree, then they want laws made to shut you up.



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:13 AM
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I used to consider myself a liberal. Other people used to consider me liberal. Then something happened and the Democratic party moved so far Left that I look Right now. It's crazy.



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:14 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: crazyewok

You started this in "the Mud Pit."

Do you intend it to be a reasonable discussion of your points, or just another variation on a "liberal bash-fest"?


No idea where else to put it.

And this isn't to bash classical liberals who have championed human rights and brought good honest reforms.

But this is to bash "new age" liberals who have made a mockery of this group.



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:15 AM
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a reply to: HoldMyBeer

Lol many of us have been abandoned, stay with it, I enjoy your posts.



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:19 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok


Ever listen to Sargon of Akkad on YT?

He is a Classic Liberal, and I find myself agreeing with him 95% of the time. These new age liberals are Progressive liberals and they are NOTHING like your Classic liberals. Hell, just listen to them. They even call themselves Progressives. I can't even decide if we even have a Democratic Party in the US anymore.



The way I see it, is we have Progressives who do the PUSH for setting everyone up for a global crash and massive civil unrest on a global scale so that from the ashes a new global governance will arise. Those who believe the movement is benevolent can't see the end result of total chaos they are moving things toward. I also see the "Right" as a controlled opposition which does absolutely NOTHING to stop it while doing their part to divide and reach the same goal.

Progressives are setting the divide by using Social issues and the Right are setting the divide by doing nothing except creating laws to benefit the mega Corporations on the business side of things.


Anyhow, that's just my view of it, and I will thoroughly enjoy the reactions of those I have "triggered" with my words!



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:19 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok

Classic liberals have become the face of new conservatism, such is the nature of a liberal party that adopts progressive as a self descriptor, yes progress is inevitable, but in this case I do not believe it is always good, and we have over shot the mark on equality. I agree classic liberalism is wonderful, however this new age liberalism is anything but, in reality it's a thinly veiled authoritarianism.



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:21 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok

Okay, let's give it a try.

Here's your definition of "new age liberals" :



Instead of equality for all they them to focus specific minority groups and the expense of others. They make "equality" to far to the moment the groups they are promoting for have MORE than equality. (IE Feminazis, Affirmative action advocates) They make apologies for certain groups and action even though those groups stand for everything they are against (Extremist Islam).


So in terms of what you're talking about, targeting certain groups to work for equal rights/treatment is a problem, particularly if it harms others. What's an example?

And let's just see at the outset if there's any real reason to continue ... would you agree that typically, minority groups in any society have been more likely historically to be treated differently to the extent of having unjust laws enacted against them?

Isn't the treatment that the "majority" affords itself kind of the definition of equality?



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:22 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok


A short-hand name for them is PC guerrillas, sorta drastic, that is what radicals do, move beyond the usual and allowed to extreme measures for attention that often violate their own ideals that may have some root values.


edit on 6-7-2016 by Aliensun because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-7-2016 by Aliensun because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:26 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok

It isn't enough to treat everyone equally. The difference is that now, you have to think and believe the same things to be equal.

That's the difference, in my opinion.

Instead of treating everyone the same, you have to believe the same.

Opinions differ, and that's what people are trying to change.



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:27 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Affirmative action was given as good example.

I'm for equality in the workplace between race, gender and sexuality.

But that equality means standing on your own merits.

Giving people jobs, position and promotions based on race,sexuality or gender is to me pushing for more than equality.



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:31 AM
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People try to be good and be liked. the MSM, liberal websites, and so on, "educates" people on, this is what you say if you want to be smart and caring. If the next thing that makes you smart and caring contradicts the last thing, it's ok, you don't think about things, you just have to say and support the current cause, to be smart and caring



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:33 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok

The problem that outsiders have with the New Age Liberal movement is that they don't see the nuance to what they are saying. New Age Liberalism isn't much different than classic liberalism. The same concepts that applied to classic liberalism are applied in New Age Liberalism, they are just applied to different groups than the traditional ones, or they are applied more carefully and less broadly in an existing liberal topic.

Outsiders don't recognize this nuance and tend to just blanket label Liberal beliefs without attempting to understand them. For instance you wrote quite a few inaccuracies about New Age Liberal beliefs in your OP. I'll address them below.

Generally they seem to be among the young and what some may call the "snow flakes".

This is an insult created by conservatives. Calling people this is only going to put them on the defensive and spurn arguments and confrontations instead of a topic of understanding and rational thought. If you believe this term to be true then the conversation is already lost and there is no point in continuing it. It will just become a shouting match.


Instead of equality for all they them to focus specific minority groups and the expense of others.

This is flat out untrue. Liberals of all types care about ALL groups equally. Just because they may shower more attention on a specific minority group doesn't mean that they don't care about others. They just see that minority group as needing more of a leg up to get to the equal status as the others.

The problem that outsiders have that causes this misunderstanding is that they seem to perceive equality as a zero-sum game. Give more equality to a minority group and you lose some of your equality. That isn't true at all. No minority group on the planet is on equal terms with the majority group that they live among. This is a statement of fact. Even within the 1st world such as England or the US.


They make "equality" to far to the moment the groups they are promoting for have MORE than equality. (IE Feminazis, Affirmative action advocates)

More liberal slurs. You really aren't trying to promote honest debate are you? At this point I'd like to bring to your attention that I'm not uttering slurs against your political position. This is one of the WORST aspects of the conservative movement. Their ease of using slurs against liberals. They use them so much and without thinking that they tend to act surprised when a liberal gets offended and starts yelling at them.

Of course, I'm not going to sit here and say that there aren't Liberals who take it too far, but then again, as you acknowledged, there are conservatives who take it too far. So why are you letting the extremists dictate your opinion of the total? I'm sure you'd be offended if I compared every conservative to Timothy McVeigh.


They make apologies for certain groups and action even though those groups stand for everything they are against (Extremist Islam).

This is one of my biggest pet peeves with people against the Liberal movement. Pretending like defending moderate Muslims is apologizing for Muslims who happen to be terrorists. It is extremely frustrating to be accused of this and it is certainly a lie through and through.

PS: I wrote this response in good faith because I have a lot of respect for you as a poster, even if we disagree on this issue. Though I want you to know that I'm a bit upset about your careless labeling of political beliefs that you don't fully understand and deeming to pretend you do understand them instead of asking for clarification.
edit on 6-7-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:35 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Gryphon66

Affirmative action was given as good example.

I'm for equality in the workplace between race, gender and sexuality.

But that equality means standing on your own merits.

Giving people jobs, position and promotions based on race,sexuality or gender is to me pushing for more than equality.


I've never been a fan of Affirmtive Action or simliar programs, but technically, you offered AA in support of your "more than Equal" stance (item 2 in your definition of New Age Liberals) and that's not the focus of my comment.

Let me be more specific: Here's what I'm addressing (Item 1 in your definition of their positions).



Instead of equality for all they them to focus specific minority groups and the expense of others.


I'm focusing on the fact that there have been, historically, minority groups in every culture (are we limiting this to the US?) that have been openly and often dramatically discriminated unfairly against, even to the point of being subject to a different legal structure.

Given that, if a New Age Liberal focuses on a certain group or concern that has been traditionally treated as second-class citizens ... how is that harming anyone else? Who is that concentration harming?



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:36 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

That to me is fine.

Thats what not just the liberal movement should do but all groups.

There have been a few causes in the UK that needed more media attention i have had sympathy for, like the gurkas who fight for the UK in the army and getting them equal rights as UK citizen.
edit on 6-7-2016 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-7-2016 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:37 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Gryphon66

Affirmative action was given as good example.

I'm for equality in the workplace between race, gender and sexuality.

But that equality means standing on your own merits.

Giving people jobs, position and promotions based on race,sexuality or gender is to me pushing for more than equality.


AA is a product of classic liberalism, mate.




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