Forget Brexit — Italy is poised to tear Europe apart

While the eyes of the world are on Britain and the fallout (or not) from Brexit the eyes of the financial world are on Italy and the likely fallout if reforms to be voted on in October aren't passed.

Italians will have a say on reforms to its Senate, the upper house of parliament, in October. The proposed reforms are widespread, and if approved could improve the stability of Italy’s political set up and allow Prime Minister Matteo Renzi to push through laws aimed at improving the country’s economic competitiveness.

But if the reforms aren't passed

“If the referendum is rejected, we would expect the fall of Renzi’s government. Forming a stable government majority either before or after a new election could become extremely challenging even by Italian standards,” Deutsche Bank analysts led by Marco Stringa said in a note to clients in May. Fears that the reforms will be rejected have intensified since the eurosceptic vote won in Britain.

Which is bad because

Online publication This is Money suggests that despite the assertions of Renzi that he is ready to provide assistance to bail out underperforming banks, Italy is actually around €35 billion short of having the required capital to do that. There are now serious fears in Brussels, according to the Financial Times, that the Italian government will not be able to fund a rescue package for the banking sector.
uk.businessinsider.com...

Italy has asked the EU for help to try and avert the impending crisis but so far been met with a deaf ear leading Italy to threaten unilateral action to save its banks.

Germany and the European Commission told Italy on Wednesday to follow the rules after Italy made preliminary plans to prop up its banks in the wake of volatility caused by Britain's vote to leave the European Union.
Rome says it is concerned that Italian banks, which hold 360 billion euros (295.82 billion pound) of bad loans, a third of the euro zone's total, risk attack by hedge funds betting that market turmoil could tip them into full-blown crisis.

Banking and government sources said Italy was preparing to protect its banking industry by requesting more flexibility from the EU on both public spending and state aid for its lenders.
uk.reuters.com...

I firmly believe that the EU will collapse which is why I voted for Brexit , not sure when it will happen but stories like this make me think sooner rather than later.
Article 50 Now.

Italy is poised to tear Europe apart

Nope, it´s again the Banksters, the politicians, their policy against the people.
I really don´t think that the people are willing again to save any banksters and their politician friends.

I hope rather this time the people burn and tear down some banksters headquarters instead of saving those criminals again!

We have to start to learn from the past.
2008 is not that long ago, and we are paying for the banksters till today and in the future.
Again?
No!

a reply to: gortex

So based on the article, the Italian economy is in the dumps, and the government is trying to pass a series of reforms that would boost it? I'd imagine Italians will support that. Why wouldn't they?
The rest seems like fearmongering to me, though 360 billion euros is quite a bit more than the EU's entire budget..

a reply to: SpongeBeard

The electorate can be fickle , David Cameron thought we'd vote to stay in the EU but as we know , he was wrong.
The 360 billion euros is the amount of bad debt Italian banks hold , a cause for concern no ?

The E.U is a dead duck, but needs to keep the U.K in otherwise Germany will have to bailout on their own and that will lead to goodness knows what.

I was told b a member on the day of the referendum result, I had voted for war. Well, maybe there will be, but Brexit certainly isn't to blame.

It's the robbing politicians and their Globalist lobbyists. All these people crying over Brexit, it's Democracy in action. It's a massive poke in the eye to the Bilderbergers, we don't want their stinking E.U.

The Tories need a Brexit leader pure and simple. Then we need to involve all parties, regardless of principles. This is a Country decision, people from all demographics have voted for this. Subsequently, every person needs to be represented during negotiations.

Invoke Article 50 as soon as possible.

Double post.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: SpongeBeard

The electorate can be fickle , David Cameron thought we'd vote to stay in the EU but as we know , he was wrong.
The 360 billion euros is the amount of bad debt Italian banks hold , a cause for concern no ?

360 billion euros is small change to some of those banks around the world ,The Elephant In The Room: Deutsche Bank's $75 Trillion In Derivatives then we have JPMorgan of course, with a whopping $70.4 trillion in total

originally posted by: stonerwilliam

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: SpongeBeard

The electorate can be fickle , David Cameron thought we'd vote to stay in the EU but as we know , he was wrong.
The 360 billion euros is the amount of bad debt Italian banks hold , a cause for concern no ?

360 billion euros is small change to some of those banks around the world ,The Elephant In The Room: Deutsche Bank's $75 Trillion In Derivatives then we have JPMorgan of course, with a whopping $70.4 trillion in total

Amd the insane thing is .... all of this money is electronic, not gold, silver, platinum or any solid element or even paper, but digital bits.

But because the whole banking industry jumped into the idea of using deposits as security on the borrowing of money from other international banks, and then lending out ten times as much money as they had savings, they are now in deep diddly-doo-doo.

Investors buy up shares in banks while they are profiting from interest payments on loans but dump them as soon as those loans go bad. And their debts pile up due to the interest they have to pay themselves.

a reply to: stormcell

Yip you can see this whole house of cards falling very soon with the way Russia and China are snapping up gold around the world .

In December 2010, the IMF concluded the sale of 403.3 metric tons of gold which at one time belonged to those countries now in trouble or the 27 member states of the E.U but with the leveraging of gold at 100-1 what would the banks do if they had to cough up if asked

And remember all the gold that Germany and co wanted back from the Fed we never hear much about that these days ditto Libia where did that 200 + tons go .

www.mining.com...

French Prime Minister Manuel Valls has called for emergency powers to deal with the growing unrest in France, as citizens revolt against their government.

yournewswire.com...

Well we are still in austerity mode, many of the smaller banks are underperforming in many countries, that's not to say that they are all particularly honest in their dealings, but the way the big banks like HSBC, and Barclays, RBS have behaved over the years, with insider dealing, interest fixing, criminal money laundering, and God knows what else, have all but destroyed any idea that banks in general are an honest enterprise, but in fact are a criminal enterprise.

As The Guardian put it in an article a while ago, The most dishonest bankers walk away with the most money.
Politicians, when they borrow big money, need to go to the market, while like most of us they have no control of how much it will cost them, the truth is, borrowing money by the big banks, even allows those at the top to not know, with the actions of their cheating traders in the interest rate fixing frauds, these guys wreck economies, people die because of it, but they don't give a shiite.
I can see why the EU is not impressed with propping up banks so much any more, and in the case of Italy, perhaps they do not see the Italian Prime Minister's package as having enough control of the traders, and the banks in general, or even if he just wants to throw money at the banks, I don't know about that. One thing is for sure though, I can see major constitutional changes in many countries on the horizon, with the object of the banking free for all, especially traders, being severely curtailed.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

The E.U is a dead duck, but needs to keep the U.K in otherwise Germany will have to bailout on their own

They can't bail out on their own. It's a strong economy but it's not that strong. It will fall to the next strongest economy to become net contributors to the EU budget along with Germany.

That's why the French are pissed with us.

One minute we're subsidising their farmers, next minute, "Oh sh*t, Britain finally woke up and smelt the coffee. Now this is gonna hurt."

a reply to: gortex

Seems that things are coming to a head with Italy and Germany after this warning

www.zerohedge.com...

Time for hair cuts on pensions and savings

So far Italy's bailout requests have mostly fallen on deaf ears, as Germany's political leaders have resisted Renzi's recurring pleas for a taxpayer funded rescue. However, as we have alleged, and as the Italian Prime Minister admitted last week, the core risk for Europe is not just the Italian banking sector but the biggest bank of all in Europe: Deutsche Bank.

Draghi must be replaced by Jurgen Stark before he unleashes massive bailout campaigns to save black hole italian banks.
Budget cuts of 1 trillion euro urgent in Italy.

Italy's upcoming referendum on the constitution is a fraud orchestrated by the government against the working people.
Its predominant themes are not the reduction of burocracy and expenses of the parliament but are favors to the financial oligarchs operating in London in favor of Renzi.

Today the stock market has showed what's the future trend for Italy and where's the upcoming market crash.

Earthquakes shenanigans hiding real catastrophic situation of the italian economic system in total shambles!
Renzi hoping for grear devastating earthquake in Rome to declare martial law before christmas and postpone constitutional referendum indefinitely.

Careful Renzi, you might get just what you wish for!

Gentiloni's days as PM are numbered and only represent a continuation of Renzi. Meanwhile Italy's days are numbered too . Draghi will have to be stopped and replaced with Jurgen Stark before any further attempt at bailing out the italian black hole.

Recent Italian referendum on regional autonomy has been orchestrated by the government and by president Mattarella.
Its effects will end up blowing up in their face.

What is happening to Italian banks ? What's happening with the Italian 2019 budget law ? Can somebody explain ? What about the pension related changes ?