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Reason And Faith are Irreconcilable

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posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 07:37 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

Therein lies the false understanding of God. He is far more interested in your holiness than happiness. He respects the sovereignty He gave mankind, that's why He doesn't force anyone to love Him. He doesn't play puppet master and control everything, man is responsible for man's actions, and those choices carry consequences.




posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 07:47 PM
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originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: TzarChasm

Therein lies the false understanding of God. He is far more interested in your holiness than happiness. He respects the sovereignty He gave mankind, that's why He doesn't force anyone to love Him. He doesn't play puppet master and control everything, man is responsible for man's actions, and those choices carry consequences.



the god of your bible doesnt respect any sovereignty but his own. thats why he has prepared a lake of eternal fire for every single soul that doesnt remember his birthday or send him a money order. thats why he plays with mens lives like they are checkers and trades bets with satan to pass the time. thats why he has no compunction drowning the world like a sack of poorly trained puppies. thats why he takes vicious glee in murdering a city worth of first born children to convince a pharaoh that slaves really arent worth it. thats why he tests his favorite pets by making them ALMOST kill their own offspring. because thats what a loving and merciful ruler looks for in his subjects. the onus is not on man, for man did not make the earth, the laws of physics, or himself. who did that? who holds the manual in one hand and the detonator in the other? who saw absolutely everything before there was even a "something"? who has the singular power to fold an eternity into a moment and play basketball with it? with great power....wait for it...comes great responsibility. thats not our power, so its not our responsibility. and if it IS our responsibility, then it logically follows that god should lose both the operators manual AND the detonator. let our fall be our own doing. you do not get to sit idly by and watch us spiral out of control just so you can have fun with the fireworks at the very end. leave us with our dwindling dignity or do something about us. again, pretty simple.
edit on 6-7-2016 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 07:54 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

And that's false. He holds you and you alone responsible for the actions you take. That's your sovereignty. You choose your eternal destiny, you choose to love Him or not, no you choose to accept or reject His Son as your Savior. It's not His will that any or lost, but He will not force anyone to be around Him for eternity who don't want to be. It's your choice alone.


who has the singular power to fold an eternity into a moment and play basketball with it? with great power....wait for it...comes great responsibility.


He met His responsibility at the cross 2000 years ago. He gave His Son so that anyone who trusted in Him were saved. That's love.
edit on 6-7-2016 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:01 PM
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originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: TzarChasm

And that's false. He holds you and you alone responsible for the actions you take. That's your sovereignty. You choose your eternal destiny, you choose to love Him or not, no you choose to accept or reject His Son as your Savior. It's not His will that any or lost, but He will not force anyone to be around Him for eternity who don't want to be. It's your choice alone.


who has the singular power to fold an eternity into a moment and play basketball with it? with great power....wait for it...comes great responsibility.


He met His responsibility at the cross 2000 years ago. He gave His Son so that anyone who trusted in Him were saved. That's love.


in the famous words of admiral ackbar: "its a trap!"



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:02 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical




He met His responsibility at the cross 2000 years ago. He gave His Son so that anyone who trusted in Him were saved. That's love.


Ah, the guilt trip! He murdered his own son in the most horrific way, as a the ultimate human sacrifice, in order to show us how much he loves us.

Could this God be more dysfunctional?



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:53 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NOTurTypical




He met His responsibility at the cross 2000 years ago. He gave His Son so that anyone who trusted in Him were saved. That's love.


Ah, the guilt trip! He murdered his own son in the most horrific way, as a the ultimate human sacrifice, in order to show us how much he loves us.

Could this God be more dysfunctional?


It was horrible because He hates sin, He judged all sin there at Calvary. The love aspect was Him sending His Son to take the punishment for us. Why do you marvel at this? Jesus said there is no greater love than a man would die for his friends.



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:55 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

It's your choice. He has put life and death before you, make your choice.



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 08:59 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical



Why do you marvel at this? Jesus said there is no greater love than a man would die for his friends.


And plenty of real people do lay down there life for others, every day! Jesus isn't special in that way, although he didn't die for anyone other than himself and maybe his apostles, if he even existed in the first place. Everyone dies one day, that's a given, so his death is just another statistic.



It was horrible because He hates sin


The biblical God created sin.

Your comment is a direct refection on why faith and reason can not be reconciled with each other.



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 09:06 PM
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a reply to: windword

Jesus is special in the way that He dies for everyone. The people who do it today or only dying for a select few nearby. Jesus' sacrifice is infinitely more awesome. And He did it while we were enemies of God, while we were still sinners.
And you keep saying God created sin, sin isn't a created thing, it's an abstract. It's missing the mark of a command of God. The only thing God did is create free will creatures in His image. We choose to sin.


Everyone dies one day, that's a given, so his death is just another statistic.


Right, the kind of statistics that completely transform the course of human history. Name 1 other person besides Peter who was crucified.

edit on 6-7-2016 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 09:09 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

And yet, in all these years, nothing has changed and there's absolutely no evidence that anything about the afterlife has changed either. There is nothing new under the sun.



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 09:13 PM
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a reply to: windword

Why don't you take a few hours and listen to the hundreds of testimonials of people who were clinically dead and went to Hades.

Mass delusions? Ahhh, I get it, it's Christians lying right? What about the former Atheists? They in on the lie too so that Christinity can be affirmed?



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 09:17 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

Hook, line and sinker!



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 09:24 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NOTurTypical

For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

Hook, line and sinker!


Quote all of he passage, the delusion is from Satan. All God does is allow him to do it. Like the story of Job.

"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 09:37 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical




Why don't you take a few hours and listen to the hundreds of testimonials of people who were clinically dead and went to Hades.


I went to Saturn when I was 8 years old. No joke! It's a huge metropolis and a gigantic galactic transportation and communication hub. Did you know that they actually manufacture planet cores in Saturn's rings! The only problem with Saturn is, that it's incredibly noisy! Earth is much cozier, but blanketed in amnesia.
edit on 6-7-2016 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 09:58 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: NOTurTypical




Why don't you take a few hours and listen to the hundreds of testimonials of people who were clinically dead and went to Hades.


I went to Saturn when I was 8 years old. No joke! It's a huge metropolis and a gigantic galactic transportation and communication hub. Did you know that they actually manufacture planet cores in Saturn's rings! The only problem with Saturn is, that it's incredibly noisy! Earth is much cozier, but blanketed in amnesia.


Wonderful, now explain why the Atheists want to help out God so much that they have these experiences when clinically dead and wake up believers in God and Hell.

Those Atheists, so nice they are to become believers in God just to help share the truth of Hell.


edit on 6-7-2016 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2016 @ 10:21 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

People don't realize what the brain is capable of, and that all of what is spiritual isn't necessarily "God". And, those spiritual experiences don't prove that Jesus is God, or that his death did anything to help humanity's spiritual plight.

God is actually so much bigger than what Christians believe. You know, they said that those who went through the Eleusinian Mysteries found "God", no longer feared death and had a renewed purpose for living. So, "Christ" was operative before the advent of Jesus.

"So it is for everyone who is born of the spirit."



edit on 6-7-2016 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2016 @ 03:22 AM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: TzarChasm

I think you're confusing Almighty God with the genie from Aladdin. And it's not witchcraft either, "I did an incantation and put Jesus' name at the end so you are forced to obey me."


its very simple. if you have "infinite cosmic power" (the words of the genie himself, mind you) and you take it upon yourself to be grandfatherly guardian of the negligible blue pearl floating around on the back arm of one of thousands of galaxies, then you do not get to choose WHEN. if there is trouble, you have made it your personal priority to make sure it is handled. and if you cannot do so indiscriminately, then you arent fit for the job and should let someone else do it better.

otherwise, you are helping SOME people. do you know what the other side of that is? you are deliberately allowing OTHER people to suffer. and for what reason? whats the basis in choosing a potential rape victim over a starving child? or providing housing for one family vs preventing a bomb from landing on another? being almighty, there shouldnt be a choice at all. it should be all inclusive. so either your deity is not almighty, or he is not benevolent. the REASONING here is pretty simple.

bottom line:


Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then He is not omnipotent. Is He able, but not willing? Then He is malevolent. Is He both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is He neither able nor willing? Then why call Him God?

...why call him god? faith, i suppose.


You're essentially saying that by being all powerful, God would have no power. By having all of the control, God cannot control Himself...

The answer to that arrogant series of questions isn't really that difficult. An all powerful God is inherently all knowing... But first, I'll point out this: Technically, an all powerful God is inherently all good, too, as his omnipotence could determine what good is.
The answer, however, is uncovered by the realization that you do not ultimately know what "good" is. You know nothing in comparison to an all powerful, all knowing, and all good God. You know nothing of the grand scheme of all things, nor do I--but God does. What you believe to be "good" may not even be good at all. Your opinion means nothing because you know nothing--you cannot comprehend it.
You, and everyone who has ever found that apparent contradiction of all powerful and all good convincing (including my younger self), just haven't accepted that you know nothing, you haven't accepted the reality of free will and factored that into the equation. You seem to believe that being robots in a perfect world forced to love God and never suffer is what is good, when in reality, I would argue that God gave us free will because THAT is good.
Our suffering in life shrinks to subatomic meaninglessness in comparison to our salvation and eternity through Jesus Christ--an eternity we CHOOSE, that we weren't forced to choose. THAT is good.



posted on Jul, 7 2016 @ 04:19 AM
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a reply to: windword

If they're clinically dead, that means no brain activity.

Dead as a doornail.

And I'm aware not everything spiritual is God, the Bible is very clear on that and gives you a way to test the spirits.
edit on 7-7-2016 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2016 @ 02:28 PM
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It is not that faith and reason are irreconcilable it is that faith(the action of belief) in a religion or God is not reasonable.The amalgamation of all of a persons experiences form their belief through faith of “their” Belief System religion.Some ( a multitude) of peoples foundation of religion is a herd religion like Christianity or Islam or Hinduism.

The clear fact is all humans are religious even atheist,however their religious belief is not in a false herd religion or God where as God centered religious belief is always in a false God and that is where some atheist are much more reasonable than God believers because it is MUCH, MUCH more reasonable to NOT believe in a false religion and God than to believe in a false religion and God.

Of course God believers religious cannot perceive the reasonableness of such a statement.The Christians being the most unreasonable because they cannot perceive that Yahoshua stated very clearly to his disciples Christians would all be deceived and deceivers.

“Do not be deceived for MANY will come in my name and say they are christ [anointed] and deceive many.”

I am not (nor was Yahoshua) condemning Christians because it is their(Christians) nature(religious) and character(corruptness) to be deceivers and deceived.Yahoshua clearly stated they are the blind leading the blind and both will fall into the ditch.They believe their faith in a false God and a false Yahoshua(Jesus) will save them from the punishment of eternal Hell when nothing could be further from the truth because they are already firmly planted in Hades(the ditch) which means the realm of death(the grave) and imperception (religious belief).

It is futile to argue with Christians about their faith because their faith (the action of trust) in their religion and God is unreasonable and they cannot perceive it.The only reasonable thing you can do when having a discourse with a Christian about their faith is to state(not teach) the truth you know, everything else will be in vain.You may as well attempt to teach the ants in your yard what E=MC² is.I know the temptation is great however I know form many, many,many years of experience it is impossible(and not enjoyable) because they simply cannot hear because of their belief through faith of their religion is 100% unreasonable.



posted on Jul, 7 2016 @ 02:42 PM
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a reply to: Rex282


The Christians being the most unreasonable because they cannot perceive that Yahoshua stated very clearly to his disciples Christians would all be deceived and deceivers.

“Do not be deceived for MANY will come in my name and say they are christ [anointed] and deceive many.”

I am not (nor was Yahoshua) condemning Christians because it is their(Christians) nature(religious) and character(corruptness) to be deceivers and deceived.


The context of that it the end of the age, and it's false teachers, wolves in sheep's clothing. Jesus said His sheep will hear His voice and a stranger they will not follow.

We watchful of creating doctrine out of a single verse, everything goes together succinctly.




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