Some serious theological problems with the Christian religion

originally posted by: GoShredAK

originally posted by: visitedbythem
a reply to: CB328 Jesus went after the religious leaders. And them came after him and got him crucified. He stood against religion. He stood for a personal relationship with God through him. You didnt know that? Mohhammad was a perv, liar, thief, and murderer. Take your choice

That's the Jesus I keep in my heart.

Christianity has been twisted.

I don't think Jesus would be too happy with Christianity.

And Bruce Lee would rant about modern Jeet Kune Do. Indeed.

I'm not angry. I just think you're talking out your ass like any other guru, con man, cult leader, etc.

You play with language like saying "Silence is the Answer".

You avoid having to support your claims by saying the reason "We can't see is because we've chosen to be blind." Placing blame and fault on those who you've already said have no ability to choose to see for themselves.

I've heard this stuff a million times from people just like you and it's all the same empty promises and circular logic.

Unlike you, when I read the bible for what it was and without outside influence, I didn't feel it to be true in my heart. Just the opposite. In fact, it was all the outside influence trying to rationalize and explaining how my heart and mind were wrong that made it seem even slightly possible as the Truth. So basically the direct opposite of your experience. When I read it for what it was I was left thinking WTF?!?!?!

Then came all the apologists trying to help me understand how what I was reading really was something else.

originally posted by: mOjOm
I'm not angry. I just think you're talking out your ass like any other guru, con man, cult leader, etc.

You play with language like saying "Silence is the Answer".

You avoid having to support your claims by saying the reason "We can't see is because we've chosen to be blind." Placing blame and fault on those who you've already said have no ability to choose to see for themselves.

I've heard this stuff a million times from people just like you and it's all the same empty promises and circular logic.

Unlike you, when I read the bible for what it was and without outside influence, I didn't feel it to be true in my heart. Just the opposite. In fact, it was all the outside influence trying to rationalize and explaining how my heart and mind were wrong that made it seem even slightly possible as the Truth. So basically the direct opposite of your experience. When I read it for what it was I was left thinking WTF?!?!?!

Then came all the apologists trying to help me understand how what I was reading really was something else.

Sorry you feel that way.

As you can see, you're definitely free to think and do as you will.

And you're free to receive the results of that thinking.

Guru, cult leader? I'm not sure whether to be flattered or offended.

Probably neither is best.

ETA, if you want to bring up some of those points you felt you were manipulated on, feel free to bring them up. I don't do the manipulation thing.

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

Guru, cult leader? I'm not sure whether to be flattered or offended.

They were just examples that's all. I'm not saying you have ill intentions or anything. I believe that you believe you're trying to do good.

I just have doubts that it is in fact doing any good and trying to tell you why it is that I see things differently.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

The enemy has convinced you that Paul and Jesus have different messages. I know the doctrine you're speaking of. It's a fringe movement. It's not an idea one gets by reading the Bible and dividing it by its own words.

No... the texts convinced me of such things, and its quite obvious when one does a comparative study on the two teachings... There is no enemy, except ones self... No devil.. or satan or whatever one chooses to call the scapegoat of Christianity. And keep in mind its not one book... its 66 books unless you're using a catholic bible

There are people who set out to claim that Paul should be removed from the Bible because some say that he never stopped being evil, but that he made up his stories in order to subvert the Christian movement.

Yes there are, but i suggested no such thing...

Those are lies.

I will have to disagree.... as shown in my previous post...

And you also assumed that I was raised in the Lord. I was not. That was a lie planted into your mind by the enemy also.

no...

that is called an assumption based on precedence... and its usually a safe one... IF i am wrong, no big deal

I don't judge you at all for it. I'm simply calling out the enemy with whom I am well acquainted.

Well i am not your enemy unless you make me that... and there is no entity whispering in my ear trying to deceive the world. Thats just not reality

you call me a level headed Christian, but I'm only saying what is in the book. The Author is the level headed one

i only said that because you don't lash out thus far when someone disagrees with you...

Oh and by the way... the idea that Jesus wrote the bible, or had any part in creating the OT is nonsense... the writings were written by man, for man... the "red letters" are all we have of Jesus' actual words, unless one believes in gnostic writing... Or Thomas

Again... Reality Vs Fantasy

And by the way i don't use a red letter bible... those are for people who can't distinguish between Jesus' words and the narrator...

ye know... Christians

a reply to: Akragon

Wait, you're saying there is no Satan, and calling him a scape goat?

You sure you've read the same 66 that I have?

In your understanding, in Revelation, who is "that old serpent", the dragon?

Or who is it that the Lord saw "fall from heaven like lightning"?

Who was it that God created with musical instruments actually as a part of his body?

Who is the accuser, Satan, and what is his relationship to Lucifer, the former covering cherub?

You say you've read, but now I'm beginning to wonder.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

Wonder all you like my friend...

Satan is the ego... the nature of man... Just as Jesus wandered in the wilderness

Read that story really carefully...

Look what "satan" offered him...

All things that HE could have easily taken of his own powers but did not

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

originally posted by: GoShredAK
a reply to: CB328

In my ongoing quest to analyze religion and it's effect on society I have had a realization lately about Christianity- namely that Christians themselves can't even agree on the vital tenets of the religion. Why should people be willing to devote their lives to a belief system that isn't even clearly defined? If you don't believe me, then read on.

I have had a really difficult time with this throughout my life. I grew up as a standard christian. Went to church, read my bible, prayed often.

No that I am older and have been exposed to the vast world of conspiracies I have pretty much given up on religion for the most part, but it does not feel right. I believe in Jesus and I believe he has worked in my life so I am very reluctant to give that faith up.

So these days I keep it simple, just obey the ten commandments and trust that itll all work out.

I feel like regardless of what religion you are the ten commandments are a valuable guide on how we ought to live our lives. I don't think you can go wrong that way.

Someone else that's honest.

The beauty of one's heart that can never reject Jesus in the face of so much temptation is amazing.

It's impossible to be perfect in this world, but I think perfection is found in those who hold on to Jesus never denying no matter how hard it gets and no matter how hard we fail.

That's good stuff right there.

If you were a Jew over 2000 years ago the 10 commandments would have served you well, not so much anymore

I dont think you learned anything of any value at sunday school, sadly, I think they taught you rubbish
Its a poor reflection on the church of today

Jesus is more interested in people living out of love than ritual

I feel it is important to note that I have read the entire Bible many, many times.

Anyone trying to get one over on me is going to fail. If it disagrees with the book, I'm going to know it. OT + NT and Revelation I've read more times than them all, besides Daniel and Acts, maybe. I'm not a mini-Bible thumper, though.

Know before you ask, or think before you speak, or else you'll make this too easy.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

Excellent...

then we are on the same page at least...

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: TarzanBeta

Wonder all you like my friend...

Satan is the ego... the nature of man... Just as Jesus wandered in the wilderness

Read that story really carefully...

Look what "satan" offered him...

All things that HE could have easily taken of his own powers but did not

I agree that temptation is in the flesh. But the serpent takes advantage and manipulates that.

We are accountable for our actions, but so is the Intelligence Operative who chose to lure everyone into the trap.

The operative appears as a light, and wisdom, but in reality, that operative works in the shadows, expecting people to think as you do before the pounce.

The mouse saw cheese in the trap.

Get rid of Satan, get rid of God, cause if Satan doesn't exist, then God is a liar.

Anyone who says He is just hasn't met Him yet.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

originally posted by: GoShredAK
a reply to: CB328

In my ongoing quest to analyze religion and it's effect on society I have had a realization lately about Christianity- namely that Christians themselves can't even agree on the vital tenets of the religion. Why should people be willing to devote their lives to a belief system that isn't even clearly defined? If you don't believe me, then read on.

I have had a really difficult time with this throughout my life. I grew up as a standard christian. Went to church, read my bible, prayed often.

No that I am older and have been exposed to the vast world of conspiracies I have pretty much given up on religion for the most part, but it does not feel right. I believe in Jesus and I believe he has worked in my life so I am very reluctant to give that faith up.

So these days I keep it simple, just obey the ten commandments and trust that itll all work out.

I feel like regardless of what religion you are the ten commandments are a valuable guide on how we ought to live our lives. I don't think you can go wrong that way.

Someone else that's honest.

The beauty of one's heart that can never reject Jesus in the face of so much temptation is amazing.

It's impossible to be perfect in this world, but I think perfection is found in those who hold on to Jesus never denying no matter how hard it gets and no matter how hard we fail.

That's good stuff right there.

If you were a Jew over 2000 years ago the 10 commandments would have served you well, not so much anymore

I dont think you learned anything of any value at sunday school, sadly, I think they taught you rubbish
Its a poor reflection on the church of today

Jesus is more interested in people living out of love than ritual

Jesus is most interested in people living out their conscience so that they are in a better position to love. No judging those who found the way of their liberty, that's counter productive, brother.

a reply to: TarzanBeta

No...

God didn't say satan exists... he is a character in a book...

In which we know very little about...

In fact the entity "god" of the OT seems a hell of a lot worse then said fallen angel

a reply to: Akragon

Catholics mucked up ALOT of things in MY opinion.
Satan is THEIR baby.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: TarzanBeta

No...

God didn't say satan exists... he is a character in a book...

In which we know very little about...

In fact the entity "god" of the OT seems a hell of a lot worse then said fallen angel

Ahh, I see. I'm talking with him now.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Akragon

Catholics mucked up ALOT of things in MY opinion.
Satan is THEIR baby.

More like the Vatican is Satan's baby.

a reply to: birdxofxprey

The only successful rebuttal to the OP would be a clear account of what it means to be a Christian, one with which no other Christians disagree.

Christianity has something to do with a man assumed to live in the first century Roman province of Galilee, rather than a 21st century Columbian named Jesus. (not that there's anything wrong with being a Columbian named Jesus, not at all )

I think all Christians might agree with that.

Edit to add:
And you will have a hard time finding a current address for him, the 1st century man that is.

originally posted by: TarzanBeta

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: TarzanBeta

No...

God didn't say satan exists... he is a character in a book...

In which we know very little about...

In fact the entity "god" of the OT seems a hell of a lot worse then said fallen angel

Ahh, I see. I'm talking with him now.

Lol... careful with the labels...

I told you i've studied many religions.... and i am not christian

Nor do i hold to any label...

a reply to: TarzanBeta

I don't think Fr. Malachi Martin was wrong.

a reply to: Akragon

WHAT is a zoroastarian's parthenon?