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Some serious theological problems with the Christian religion

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posted on Jul, 10 2016 @ 02:34 AM
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originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Nochzwei

Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit. We just lay hands on people and pray for them to receive. It's a gift that needs to be pursued and prayed for.
thanks
now take my own example. a heathen has a one in million chance encounter with a preacher at a gas station, in a very small town. some small talk takes place and a few minutes later the preacher says ' we take your spirit out and put a new spirit in' thereafter he proceeds to hold my hand and lead me into prayer with my eyes closed. during the prayer and immediately after, all he had said happens. my soul did leave my body and the Holy Spirit did come in with a thump . Praise the Lord. So the preacher did Baptize me with the Holy Ghost. So do you think i had met Jesus Christ himself or his Angel at the gas station?
edit on 10-7-2016 by Nochzwei because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 10 2016 @ 03:19 AM
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originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

But, when I look at the world today, and how so many people suffer (with seeming silence from "god), it's more like god is an abusive spouse.

Why Does God Allow Suffering?—The Reason Why Suffering Began | What Does the Bible Really Teach?

- Has God caused the suffering in the world?

- What issue was raised in the garden of Eden?

- How will God undo the effects of human suffering?

The answers are in the article as to what the bible teaches about that subject, freely available for any person who genuinely wants to know. God is not abusive just because some people don't want to think through their logical pathways (even sometimes allergic to it and rather twist, turn and squirm to avoid having to think about the subject in more detail, preferring to stay at the surface of the argument because it's so convenient for the dismissal of specific realities that make them uncomfortable and aren't 'tickling their ears', just what they wanted to hear; see 2 Timothy 4:3,4).
From a previous comment I made that has more links to related things to consider:

The original-language words rendered “understanding” can refer to comprehension of a rather simple kind or can describe a full and profound realization of the inner nature, underlying reasons, and significance of complex matters. Insight, discernment, and perception are all closely connected to understanding.
...
Relationship to Knowledge and Wisdom. Understanding must be based on knowledge, and it works with knowledge, though it is itself more than mere knowledge. The extent and worth of one’s understanding is measurably affected by the quantity and quality of one’s knowledge.
...
The “understanding heart is one that searches for knowledge”; it is not satisfied with a mere superficial view but seeks to get the full picture. (Pr 15:14) ... see KNOWLEDGE.

Source: Understanding: Insight, Volume 2



posted on Jul, 10 2016 @ 10:37 AM
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It does make a difference. To "feel the power" is to have the "thing" internalized, it becomes a facet of the self. To then turn away is to deny your self in some significant manner. It isn't easy, or quick, or even safe for that matter.


Pthena, you wrote the above on the thread link you gave a few posts up.
THIS is exactly how I'm feeling lately. I have experienced the power of the Holy Spirit and God. So, all my ramblings (as some on here call it), is me trying to come to terms with THAT and the way I view this world now. I never questioned God before. Ever. Now, I am. I've found more holes in the Bible than swiss cheese. Many contradictions, too.
So, when your whole platform of belief comes unraveled, and one DOES actually question, it probably looks nuts.



posted on Jul, 10 2016 @ 10:44 AM
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originally posted by: KazeKurai
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Dude.. Do you even read & comprehend what utter nonsense you are spewing out ?

Firstly god with a lower case 😆 can't hear you moaning & complaining due to the fact that there is no god.. But let's entertain your belief for a moment. Let's imagine there was some "elite" being.

Do you honestly believe he/she or it would listen to the ramblings of every person on the planet ? Then let's zoom out & scale it up.. Do you think he is listening to all the ET's on other worlds in our milkyway Galaxy with their issues? That's aproximitly 200 billion planets with life if you believe that 1 in 9 planets would host complex life. (Due to the Drake equation & law of averages)

Now that's just one galaxy dude there are well over 200 billion Galaxies in our singular universe.
Now let's say our universe is 1 of possibly countless universes all connected through concentric patterns & geometry (spiral or Fibonacci sequence)

Now factor all of that & realize that your views & your issues are so infanticidal yet they are important as everything matters & I would't want you to think I'm been difficult, rude or obnoxious.

Life & nature & the Multiverse are the systems we are apart of & you should take comfort in that thought.

The laws of nature & laws of physics are what govern us all ! The strong survive & the weak will make an untimely exit.

Anyways I wish you well in your quest for knowledge & the persuit of truth 😉 ✌🏻





Well, thanks for sharing. If it appears I'm spewing utter nonsense...well, maybe it seems that way, but I haven't reached a "there is no God" point. The lower case "g" I use when speaking of the god I'm kinda peeved at, at the moment, is the one from the Torah. (the one Christians believe is the father of Jesus).
I'm coming at this from a "I used to believe the whole Bible and now I don't" perspective.
I do think there is SOMETHING bigger than us. I'm in a redefining mode of what that something is.
Yes, I'm angry. I am angry about a lot of things that are in this world. I'll get through that to a different place...I hope. Oh, and I'm a "dudette".

edit on 10-7-2016 by Matrixsurvivor because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2016 @ 10:51 AM
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originally posted by: whereislogic

originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor

But, when I look at the world today, and how so many people suffer (with seeming silence from "god), it's more like god is an abusive spouse.

Why Does God Allow Suffering?—The Reason Why Suffering Began | What Does the Bible Really Teach?

- Has God caused the suffering in the world?

- What issue was raised in the garden of Eden?

- How will God undo the effects of human suffering?

The answers are in the article as to what the bible teaches about that subject, freely available for any person who genuinely wants to know. God is not abusive just because some people don't want to think through their logical pathways (even sometimes allergic to it and rather twist, turn and squirm to avoid having to think about the subject in more detail, preferring to stay at the surface of the argument because it's so convenient for the dismissal of specific realities that make them uncomfortable and aren't 'tickling their ears', just what they wanted to hear; see 2 Timothy 4:3,4).
From a previous comment I made that has more links to related things to consider:

The original-language words rendered “understanding” can refer to comprehension of a rather simple kind or can describe a full and profound realization of the inner nature, underlying reasons, and significance of complex matters. Insight, discernment, and perception are all closely connected to understanding.
...
Relationship to Knowledge and Wisdom. Understanding must be based on knowledge, and it works with knowledge, though it is itself more than mere knowledge. The extent and worth of one’s understanding is measurably affected by the quantity and quality of one’s knowledge.
...
The “understanding heart is one that searches for knowledge”; it is not satisfied with a mere superficial view but seeks to get the full picture. (Pr 15:14) ... see KNOWLEDGE.

Source: Understanding: Insight, Volume 2


Um, I already know all the "Christian" explanations for suffering. I've spent two decades reading the Bible constantly, reading apologetic authors (C.S. Lewis was my favorite), reading just about any Christian author you can name.
I GET the suffering explanation from your perspective. I am not convinced about those answers anymore.
You may have missed some of my other posts, but quoting anything Paul said is pure futility with me. I don't believe he was a true apostle. He was a "wolf in sheep's clothing" that Jesus warned about. But, thanks for sharing the links.



posted on Jul, 10 2016 @ 11:08 AM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor


So, when your whole platform of belief comes unraveled, and one DOES actually question, it probably looks nuts.

You are fighting an idea of god that is in your understanding, as you put it earlier, stomping on the box.

I started a new thread. Labels: Why I'm Agnostic.



posted on Jul, 10 2016 @ 12:09 PM
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originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor


So, when your whole platform of belief comes unraveled, and one DOES actually question, it probably looks nuts.

You are fighting an idea of god that is in your understanding, as you put it earlier, stomping on the box.

I started a new thread. Labels: Why I'm Agnostic.


Your calm responses to me are very encouraging. You've been through this already, thus the understanding. Thank you.
I'm a very passionate person. I don't do anything half way. I feel like a jilted lover at the moment, lol. I gave every ounce of my being to the god I understood then. Guess I'm having a "Job" time of life. If the god in that book answered me the way he did Job, I would be livid.
I read that other thread Buzzy Wings started (that you posted). Man, do I get that woman's story.
Ok, back to my box stomping. (grin)



posted on Jul, 10 2016 @ 12:35 PM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor


I'm a very passionate person.

That disqualifies you from seeking an Epicurean path, as strange as that may sound to people who have not tried it, but oh wait. They didn't include women anyway!

Holy moly! Grin back at you.

Edit to add:
Buzzywigs is passionate about how children are indoctrinated. That should be clear to anyone who cares to listen to her.

edit on 10-7-2016 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2016 @ 01:14 PM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor
You took your information from the tool of Satan that he uses to deceive you about God:

"The Man of Lawlessness" who is a part of "Babylon the Great". This comment has more details.



posted on Jul, 10 2016 @ 02:20 PM
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a reply to: whereislogic

from the site you linked:


Do you know why people make the mistake of blaming God for all the suffering in the world? In many cases, they blame Almighty God because they think that he is the real ruler of this world. They do not know a simple but important truth that the Bible teaches. You learned that truth in Chapter 3 of this book. The real ruler of this world is Satan the Devil.


hmmm, but where did "satan the devil" come from? he used to be one of gods pets. typically the last thing you do when one of your dogs go rabid is to just let it run amok in the neighborhood. exceedingly irresponsible. can a hypothetical god be blamed in this hypothetical scenario? absolutely.


Why did he rebel against God? The reason can be summarized in one word: pride. He became jealous of God’s position, and in his pride he decided to lead a revolution and take God’s place: “You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven. … I will make myself like the Most High'” (Isaiah 14:13-14). He failed – but his goal is still the same: to take God’s place.


this part confuses me. did he actually lead a revolution and attempt to usurp the throne? there is a part of me that submits a rather different angle: he attempted to eradicate the holy crown in favor of a free republic. its easy to see how a revolution of the people could be edited to tell a tale of ambition and betrayal.



posted on Jul, 10 2016 @ 02:26 PM
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a reply to: whereislogic


Satan is not real.
The early Christians perverted the Old Testament and invent Satan and Hell. The word Devil comes from Greek Diabolos and means Accuser/Advocate, as does Satan. It's just a translation of Satan into Greek, they were originally different myths.



posted on Jul, 10 2016 @ 02:57 PM
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originally posted by: flyingfish
a reply to: whereislogic


Satan is not real.
The early Christians perverted the Old Testament and invent Satan and Hell. The word Devil comes from Greek Diabolos and means Accuser/Advocate, as does Satan. It's just a translation of Satan into Greek, they were originally different myths.


is there a book that covers this transliteration in detail?



posted on Jul, 10 2016 @ 03:32 PM
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originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor


I'm a very passionate person.

That disqualifies you from seeking an Epicurean path, as strange as that may sound to people who have not tried it, but oh wait. They didn't include women anyway!

Holy moly! Grin back at you.

Edit to add:
Buzzywigs is passionate about how children are indoctrinated. That should be clear to anyone who cares to listen to her.


You crack me up! I often wonder why women are always less than men in most religions. I think the only one I've heard had more of a matriarchal system (or at least women were equals), were some of the Native American tribes. There may be others, but not sure.
Oh, and I definitely get BuzzyWings. I thought she was a he at first....and I thought you were a she at first, lol. Hard to tell sometimes online.
You know, I've raised my kids in Christianity. I now wish I saw then, what I do now. One of my sons has always bucked the "Christian system", though. One day, (3 years ago) I was trying to teach him some things about God, he said, "so let me get this straight mom....this God, who say's he loves me so much, sent his son to die for me, but if I don't believe in Jesus and love him back, he's going to send me to hell for eternal torment?" I said, well...that's what it says. He then said, "that's not love mom....that's extortion". You know what, he was right. That was a few weeks before I started doing research into Paul being a false apostle.
I sit here and chuckle now about my son. He's always been a deep thinker. He reminds me of myself in many ways.
He also HATED going to church. He would tell me it was all BS and the hypocrisy was very evident to him. He actually would tell me this from about 9 years of age, up.
So, now I tell them, "hey, I don't know WHAT God is anymore...though I do think there is something good that has intervened in my life. Jesus taught good things, too. The rest of it...meh...just treat others with kindness and try to be the best person you can.
My kids and I are really close, too.

Something I've thought about...the HS is called the Ruach Qodesh in Hebrew. It's a feminine noun. Wisdom is also personified as female in Proverbs. I have challenged many a pastor in my time of being in the church. I was always told, "you need to submit to authority". Uhg.
edit on 10-7-2016 by Matrixsurvivor because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 10 2016 @ 04:03 PM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor


I often wonder why women are always less than men in most religions. I think the only one I've heard had more of a matriarchal system (or at least women were equals), were some of the Native American tribes. There may be others, but not sure.


Venus of Dolní Věstonice

The Venus of Dolní Věstonice (Czech: Věstonická Venuše) is a Venus figurine, a ceramic statuette of a nude female figure dated to 29,000–25,000 BCE (Gravettian industry). It was found at the Paleolithic site Dolní Věstonice in the Moravian basin south of Brno, in the base of Děvín Mountain, 549 metres (1,801 ft). This figurine and a few others from locations nearby are the oldest known ceramic articles in the world.

I'm guessing that the best examples of matriarchal societies are lost in time. Notice the dating.
There are hints from oldest Sumerian/Akkadian texts. The Sumerian students would know much more than I ever could. The field of study is called Assyriology.



posted on Jul, 10 2016 @ 04:07 PM
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originally posted by: pthena
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor


I often wonder why women are always less than men in most religions. I think the only one I've heard had more of a matriarchal system (or at least women were equals), were some of the Native American tribes. There may be others, but not sure.


Venus of Dolní Věstonice

The Venus of Dolní Věstonice (Czech: Věstonická Venuše) is a Venus figurine, a ceramic statuette of a nude female figure dated to 29,000–25,000 BCE (Gravettian industry). It was found at the Paleolithic site Dolní Věstonice in the Moravian basin south of Brno, in the base of Děvín Mountain, 549 metres (1,801 ft). This figurine and a few others from locations nearby are the oldest known ceramic articles in the world.

I'm guessing that the best examples of matriarchal societies are lost in time. Notice the dating.
There are hints from oldest Sumerian/Akkadian texts. The Sumerian students would know much more than I ever could. The field of study is called Assyriology.


Cool! Yea, it's fascinating to research other ancient societies. I'm curious....how did you get the mindset you have? You spent many years as a Christian, right? What happened that woke you up to the fallacies in it?



posted on Jul, 10 2016 @ 04:15 PM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor


You spent many years as a Christian, right? What happened that woke you up to the fallacies in it?

The sin against the Holy Ghost
The fictional character Bob explains it at the above link.



posted on Jul, 10 2016 @ 04:33 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: flyingfish
a reply to: whereislogic


Satan is not real.
The early Christians perverted the Old Testament and invent Satan and Hell. The word Devil comes from Greek Diabolos and means Accuser/Advocate, as does Satan. It's just a translation of Satan into Greek, they were originally different myths.


is there a book that covers this transliteration in detail?


Curious.. You need a book to tell you Santa is not real?

Look up Richard Carrier -On Historicity of Jesus. There are plenty of references.



posted on Jul, 10 2016 @ 05:13 PM
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originally posted by: flyingfish

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: flyingfish
a reply to: whereislogic


Satan is not real.
The early Christians perverted the Old Testament and invent Satan and Hell. The word Devil comes from Greek Diabolos and means Accuser/Advocate, as does Satan. It's just a translation of Satan into Greek, they were originally different myths.


is there a book that covers this transliteration in detail?


Curious.. You need a book to tell you Santa is not real?

Look up Richard Carrier -On Historicity of Jesus. There are plenty of references.


*sigh* thank you for answering the question, anyway.



posted on Jul, 10 2016 @ 06:07 PM
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a reply to: pthena






So there's Bob. I don't know about you, but I'm fairly certain that he's not going to be talked back in any time soon.


Full belly laugh on that one....I relate to Bob very well.



posted on Jul, 10 2016 @ 08:00 PM
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originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor
You took your information from the tool of Satan that he uses to deceive you about God:

"The Man of Lawlessness" who is a part of "Babylon the Great". This comment has more details.

What? Reveltion 17 says the man of lawlessness (the antichrist) and his 10 nation Empire hates the whore, (which is a city in the desert) and they devour her with fire. The whore is mystery Babylon the Great, and it's a city. It also says its beside the Red Sea and it's in a desert.



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