Question for the Spiritually Enlightened

I am in an exclusive club.


Should I let others in?


Many a cult has started this way.

Type B from my point of view seem to want to lessen subjective view for a more objective based on seeking and measuring.

Even if you do not personally help B they will sooner or later get help and verification on their own. There are souls listening on the spiritual plane more advanced that will react when they notice the need. I am not one of those souls but I have meet souls who are.

Type A is the ones who will cause suffering to others due to ignorance. But often they do not listen to reason or logic playing around with subjective faith.

You do not need to save atheists from being non spiritually aware at all when they are following the golden rule.

How subjective or objective I am or you are is a measuring problem that I have not been able to fully solve. Because of that I choose to normally be between 2 extremes in a duality.

What is the message?

Enlighten me.

a reply to: deadlyhope

If we logically understood how the sensors work in the body including the third eye sensor package in connection to quantum probability field state of the bodies then we could use science to get an objective measurement on what is going on at specific point in time and space. We might even learn to calibrate the third eye like we calibrate a radio on the FM/AM dial. That information could be used to help souls in mental institutes who have problem with third eye miss calibration causing information to be received that the soul cannot handle.



I do agree that Enlightened is a very unspecific term and that more words can be used that are more specific to each experience and give more information to what you mean.

Energetic body states/bliss state?
Stimulated creative center that makes the soul sometimes talk in tongues?
Low level telepathy/synchronicity aware/ High level telepathy/synchronicity aware?
Empath who connect to another body and feel the effects within their own body?

You can explain how the spiritual manifest if you look deeply at how quantum entanglement work. Some religious ideas and Science cannot both be true. Science and the spiritual realm do not have that problem as long as science choose awareness and measurements to seek understanding. Materialism have already been disproved. Time to where the facts/measuring led us.

Plant seeds for the next phase of awareness and understanding.

a reply to: Joecroft

Curiosity, mistake, mistakes more mistakes.. A helping hand..

originally posted by: TarzanBeta
The correct answer is simply to speak truth. Those that are humble enough to care about the truth will hear it. Those who want their own made up reality will not.

Since you don't know everyone's heart, that means talk to everyone and particularly those that seem to be seeking.

This all assuming you know the truth.

Those who want it for themselves, wont listen, and wont actually progress.. Everyone has a story to tell, and everyone has an experience you probably never experienced.. Those with an open mind, well they usually get lost..

Are you asking who you should pick and choose to help ?....I think you should always help a fellow soul in need . Regardless if you are enlightened or not....and regardless of what their situation is...... If someone needs help, ...offer some help . They may take it, they may not...they may come back a year later for help .....The small changes in the world cause a ripple effect that reaches many and causes a chain reaction with destiny.... . And you never know who you may touch, help, influence, or save that day ....even with smallest gesture .

a reply to: Joecroft

Enlightenment (spiritual or otherwise) is perhaps not well defined
by the possession of or ability/desire to utter "truth."

"Bang, the Earth is Round"
from
Johannes Climacus (Søren Kierkegaard) in Concluding Unscientific Postscript

Why can't one prove himself to be sanely in possession of
his faculties if he tells the truth objectively?
A patient in ... an institution seeks to escape, and actually
succeeds in effecting his purpose by leaping out of a window,
and prepares to start on the road to freedom, when the thought
strikes him (shall I say sanely enough or madly enough?):
"When you come to town you will be recognized, and you
will at once be brought back here again; hence you need to
prepare yourself fully to convince everyone by the objective
truth of what you say, that all is in order as far as your sanity
is concerned." As he walks along and thinks about this, he
sees a ball lying on the ground, picks it up, and puts it into
the tail pocket of his coat. Every step he takes the ball strikes
him, politely speaking, on his hinder parts, and every time
it thus strikes him he says: "Bang, the earth is round." He
comes to the city, and at once calls on one of his friends; he
wants to convince him that he is not crazy, and therefore
walks back and forth, saying continually: "Bang, the earth
is round!" But is not the earth round? Does the asylum still
crave yet another sacrifice for this opinion, as in the time
when all men believed it to be flat as a pancake? Or is a man
who hopes to prove that he is sane, by uttering a generally accepted
and generally respected objective truth, insane? And
yet it was clear to the physician that the patient was not yet
cured; though it is not to be thought that the cure would
consist in getting him to accept the opinion that the earth is
flat.

Thanks to all who have replied so far…some really great posts and ideas…

I’m just going to address all of you in this post…and add a bit more clarity to the question in my OP…


***

To those who stated “enlightened ones” is not such a great phrase to use, I agree, it’s not ideal…but if I outlined in a bunch of paragraphs as to what that enlightenment is, then people would just try to pick it apart, which would in turn detract from the question in my OP…in my Wisdom I decided not to go down that root…

And just too add, to the ones who said you don’t need to be enlightened in order to be able to help people…I totally agree, but my question was directed to those who believe they are “enlightened”…

To those wondering what the enlightenment is, the short version would be knowing that we are “Spiritual Beings”, having a “Human Experience”… but in reality the enlightenment, also encompasses pointing out things that are false using wisdom and knowledge.

***

To those who spoke about this becoming a cult and not wanting another group knocking at their door etc...The proposition in my OP, in regards to people type (A) is to brake down the mind-set of the cults, so that they wont be knocking on your door, either today, or in the future…

Also a cult is where a charismatic leader essentially brainwashes people and tries to take advantage of them, and is usually done through some Holy book. My plan is take those people head on so that people don’t become trapped in those type of cults anymore. This isn’t some new cult I plan on setting up, it’s about braking down the ones that are already in place…

***

To the ones who talked about not forcing beliefs onto others, in my defence, I did mention this below in my OP…

Originally posted by Joecroft
These types of people fit into the mould of that wise saying “when the student is ready the teacher will arrive”…and are clearly ready to listen and be guided. I say guided because I’m a big believer in not forcing any truth onto any individual…

For me connecting with people and highlighting things I believe to be wrong and sowing subtle seeds of Wisdom, is how I would approach it; never would I use force or coercion…that is not the way…IMO

***

To others I also mentioned this in my OP below…

Originally posted by Joecroft
I guess the correct answer from the heart is to help both types of people…

You see, of course I will speak the truth to people of type (A) or (B) wherever I may encounter them in my daily life…that kind of goes without saying…

I guess my question has more to do with an overall “Proactive Life Choice”, what I mean by that, is by making a stand against the false hoods of Religion, not by force, but by helping people that are bound by them…

If I decide to proactively take that rout in my life, I would automatically be interacting with more people from type (A) than those of Type (B) but this is what my question is really all about, apologies for not making that totally clear in my OP…

Going the rout of type (A) will be without much reward in terms of negative attacks and so forth, and few will probably find “the truth” or even be open to it, in short, it will be a long hard road. On the up side, it may bring something good long term i.e. fruit that will last long after I’m gone…

On the down side if I take that rout, I’ll be largely neglecting those from Group (B) the ones who have already made progress through many, many lifetimes, the ones who are humble and who you could argue are more deserving of finding “the truth”…This is my…in fact forget about MY… this is EVERYONES dilemma…

Another aspect is that the three major world religions, are still growing and outnumbering all the rest…In the near distant future there may be hardly any people of type (B) left to speak of…


***

Essentially there are three paths…

(1) The one that the poster anotheramethyst mentioned about the universe placing you where you need to go (which I completely accept and do believe to be true)…which presumably leads you to helping those that you meet on your life path, which would probably include both groups A and B. I guess it could also possibly lead to option (2) and/or (3)

(2) Proactively help group (A)

(3) Seek out those from group (B)


You see, by actively making it your life mission to do option (2) you will be spending less time with those in group (B) And if you go to live in a Hindu or Buddhist monastery you will generally only be encountering those in group (B)

And lastly, doing option (1) will lead to meeting both groups in presumable, an unequal measure…it’s a life choice, but not as much an proactive life choice as options (2) and (3)…

And by not making the choice, the choice is already being made, which is by default option 1; but by making one of the other choices, you neglect one or the other to a certain degree…


Which is the greater good…???


- JC

originally posted by: Joecroft

Thanks to all who have replied so far…some really great posts and ideas…

I’m just going to address all of you in this post…and add a bit more clarity to the question in my OP…


***

To those who stated “enlightened ones” is not such a great phrase to use, I agree, it’s not ideal…but if I outlined in a bunch of paragraphs as to what that enlightenment is, then people would just try to pick it apart, which would in turn detract from the question in my OP…in my Wisdom I decided not to go down that root…

And just too add, to the ones who said you don’t need to be enlightened in order to be able to help people…I totally agree, but my question was directed to those who believe they are “enlightened”…

To those wondering what the enlightenment is, the short version would be knowing that we are “Spiritual Beings”, having a “Human Experience”… but in reality the enlightenment, also encompasses pointing out things that are false using wisdom and knowledge.

***

To those who spoke about this becoming a cult and not wanting another group knocking at their door etc...The proposition in my OP, in regards to people type (A) is to brake down the mind-set of the cults, so that they wont be knocking on your door, either today, or in the future…

Also a cult is where a charismatic leader essentially brainwashes people and tries to take advantage of them, and is usually done through some Holy book. My plan is take those people head on so that people don’t become trapped in those type of cults anymore. This isn’t some new cult I pan on setting up, it’s about braking down the ones that are already in place…

***

To the ones who talked about not forcing beliefs onto others, in my defence, I did mention this below in my OP…

Originally posted by Joecroft
These types of people fit into the mould of that wise saying “when the student is ready the teacher will arrive”…and are clearly ready to listen and be guided. I say guided because I’m a big believer in not forcing any truth onto any individual…

For me connecting with people and highlighting things I believe to be wrong and sowing subtle seeds of Wisdom, is how I would approach it; never would I use force or coercion…that is not the way…IMO

***

To others I also mentioned this in my OP below…

Originally posted by Joecroft
I guess the correct answer from the heart is to help both types of people…

You see, of course I will speak the truth to people of type (A) or (B) wherever I may encounter them in my daily life…that kind of goes without saying…

I guess my question has more to do with an overall “Proactive Life Choice”, what I mean by that, is by making a stand against the false hoods of Religion, not by force, but by helping people that are bound by them…

If I decide to proactively take that rout in my life, I would automatically be interacting with more people from type (A) than those of Type (B) but this is what my question is really all about, apologies for not making that totally clear in my OP…

Going the rout of type (A) will be without much reward in terms of negative attacks and so forth, and few will probably find “the truth” or even be open to it, in short, it will be a long hard road. On the up side, it may bring something good long term i.e. fruit that will last long after I’m gone…

On the down side if I take that rout, I’ll be largely neglecting those from Group (B) the ones who have already made progress through many, many lifetimes, the ones who are humble and who you could argue are more deserving of finding “the truth”…This is my…in fact forget about MY… this is EVERYONES dilemma…

Another aspect is that the three major world religions, are still growing and outnumbering all the rest…In the near distant future there may be hardly any people of type (B) left to speak of…


***

Essentially there are three paths…

(1) The one that the poster anotheramethyst mentioned about the universe placing you where you need to go (which I completely accept and do believe to be true)…which presumably leads you to helping those that you meet on your life path, which would probably include both groups A and B. I guess it could also possibly lead to option (2) and/or (3)

(2) Proactively help group (A)

(3) Seek out those from group (B)


You see, by actively making it your life mission to do option (2) you will be spending less time with those in group (B) And if you go to live in a Hindu or Buddhist monastery you will generally only be encountering those in group (B)

And lastly, doing option (1) will lead to meeting both groups in presumable, an unequal measure…it’s a life choice, but not as much an proactive life choice as options (2) and (3)…

And by not making the choice, the choice is already being made, which is by default option 1; but by making one of the other choices, you neglect one or the other to a certain degree…


Which is the greater good…???


- JC

TLDR

a reply to: anotheramethyst

I was just about to type something along the same line of thought.

But you beat me to it. And probably worded it better than I would have.

Well put!

a reply to: Joecroft

When you're standing in the middle making a divide or judgment of choice? Then you are an agent of division and duality itself in such judgment and condemnation a fission of divsion instead of a fusion to empower... matter and antimatter, no matter never mind.

Energy and form being inseperable drive themselves in natural flows of being... all you can do is try to see the divide one makes within oneself to see the divide one makes outside of ones self to see the process is no different.

In compassion one steps out of that entire process, that binds oneself and others or cuts the inifite nature of being into halves or unites them into wholes based on grasping of polarities... doing such one sinks or rises and fails to find balance or bouancy that comes from love... which is simply seeing that it is an expression of compassion for others no different than oneself if ego bound that causes that divide into either or... and awakening simply the culmination to not try to control just simply say why divide? As all things arise and pass in impermanence due to their own inherent nature... when energy and form bind and unbind in accordance to their natures regardless of the conglomeration or semipermanence such seems to appear having by labeling all manners of form and formless when there is no difference except in expression of affinity or attachments that automatically separate and divide according to their nautre particle by particle, energy swap by energy swap that animates the entire whole... which one is never separate nor a part from in the nature of being.

Profound awareness of this is simply being awake beyond all such divisions or unions, it simply is and is not and not what it is when it's just as it is regardless of labels and forms in those divides chosen as a bias or polarity of being... some of these energy flows are more painful when experienced in total of a self or mass conglomerate, instead of just flowing as free energy that expresses in form, the form it takes? Of course depends on who is attached to such labels of being and unaware via direct experience of such impermanence is transitory and non binding to a specific nature in regard to concepts of time, bending time curves it in a field back around in a cycle... like electromagnetic frequencies, reflecting scatters or focuses... and unbinds like a neutron... and refracts or stands there and splits via a preferential bias... no different than what you asked in starting out the thread with.

So good or bad or attached to a bias... what fetters are being cut one way or the other determines flow of such energies... if all one sees is negative then they channel all of that flow into a strength together, if one sees only positive the same thing... if one just observes then they see the effects of all of this, if one scatters... then they simply exist never creating nor dividing... of course all of these states of being or focuses are always occuring naturally no matter the form or flow energy takes. manipulation of them to manipulate form is called science, manipulation of the energy in form is called mind sciences... add them together and a cohesive whole understanding can naturally form... keep them separated and the whole is also separated... physical and spiritual union however is simply matter and energy with a fluctuating potiential... a possibility and well, it works in all various manners in all various systems whether towards creation or destruction does it not? So how could such a cycle ever really cease or begin to exist when it simply always is in reality and simply always is not in ignorance of whatever process such work gets labeled?

Therein lay all knowledge or labels of basically the same potiential or work that can be accomplished no matter the form or energy given to it... of course as a species and for all species, it is better for those not experiencing such to not control or divide by bias but guide towards creative pursuits and perpetuations that aid life and ease life without consciously or unconsciously attempting to control it towards a bias that causes balance of the whole to be lost... or ceases equanimity for a specific bias or polarity... such controls are unneeded when every particle of being is unbound and free to it's nature...

This can of course be grasped and understood rotely, and experientially on many levels of reality and reasoning... when there are so many labels or systems of bias? It can become a bit complicated to see that they all are simply the exact same thing occuring over and over matter and energy changing and swapping form of affinities... so bias? Is the free will of choice between them binding or unbinding...

There ia another option, which ia in my view the onpy option, so i shall presume to say: 1) All such people Awakened to and devoted to the Truth, coming to this dilemma, should come together tp combine their efforta, firstly making sure that none of them in group A are mishearing the Truth, and then going out to help both typws B and C learn the Truth in a concerted effort, with A representing awakened a reply to: Joecroft

a reply to: Joecroft

Not sure that it is right to assume that we are more spiritual than another person and that they need our help.

My policy is not to help or guide anyone spiritually; they will find their own way or may be more spiritually tuned than myself. Perhaps , at times, I may covertly help (such as sending good vibes ) someone in dire straits.

What I will more often do is assist people in a practical down to earth way. Before you grow spiritually , you need some balance in the mundane life. I prefer to assist in that segment and let them fly of their own accord once they grow wings.

I thought I was becoming spiritually enlightened at one point. Then I started realizing you're all robots.

I wouldn't bother trying to enlighten anyone unless they seem ready to know a psychopathic deity is controlling everyone.

a reply to: Joecroft

Hey Joe-

If You have some time, try and give this a read. It is only 1 page long but You 'may' come away with a whole new outlook..

www.sunfell.com...

And add this from The Great Buddha..

The man told the Buddha "I want happiness"
The Great Buddha said "Get rid of the "I" as that is "ego"; Get rid of the "want" as that is "desire" now all You are left with is "Happiness"...

namaste

originally posted by: EvilLucian
I thought I was becoming spiritually enlightened at one point. Then I started realizing you're all robots.

I wouldn't bother trying to enlighten anyone unless they seem ready to know a psychopathic deity is controlling everyone.

I'm you're huckleberry

Do not mistake your position within the Presence as that of powers or authority. Just the opposite is true. Once you dwell within the Presence you understand only the powers of God will establish the pathways, positions and directions for you... or hold you back. Human effort results in human results, not spiritual ones. It is most rare indeed when you are clearly given the green light to open up with someone, even then you may only be one cog in the huge geared wheel, where you are only to say one sentence. The example of how you speak and carry yourself 100% of the time because you are a different person will draw seekers to you.

I met a man who was truly enlightened. He had no ego. He lived in the NOW, in the present, at every moment. He didn't worry about the past or the future. He was in joy all the time. He was happy, calm, centered - all the time. He smiled more than I've ever seen anyone smile, a calm, serene, joyous smile. He wanted nothing from no one. He needed nothing from no one. He chose to give, to give time, to give money, to give wisdom, to share his knowledge about health and everything else (he was a brilliant man, mensa-type, high IQ, highly educated).

He spent a lot of time alone in nature, and animals, birds, insects - loved him or so it seemed. Creatures were not afraid of him, as he had no anger or fear in him. He could "heal" people of their pain, just by touching them and going into a deep meditative state. I saw it happen. Even nurses and medical professionals allowed him to do "hands on" healing on them - in the moment.

He was naturally charismatic, charming, engaging. Why? Because people felt his love, his compassion, his caring nature, his higher energy/vibration or whatever you want to call it. People listened to him talk about spirituality, with their mouths agape. He was a brilliant speaker.

He didn't care much about his appearance any more, about his clothes or hair. He was clean and shaven and did normal grooming and such, but he didn't really care about how he appeared to others. He never worried if others would think him odd or different. He just smiled and said once you wake up, you see the world as a dream, and all of us as dream figures, just playing out roles. Once you awaken, you see the dream for what it is. What is there to worry about? Fret about? Fight about? Be angry about? Fear? If you die, you die in the dream. You are never born, so you never die, really.

I have never met anyone like him. I doubt I ever will again. He was the only truly awakened, enlightened person I've come across. And he never used the word "enlightened." He just would say, become self realized, wake up from the dream. Know that we are pure consciousness. We are One.

He is no longer in this dream. He passed away recently.

What I learned from him is this: The only thing worth doing is becoming self realized. Then, as you live your dream life, live it as a compassionate being to every living being, in every moment, without fail. Reduce suffering. Nothing else matters.

So there is no question about "A" or "B" groups of people. Live your life, enjoy your life, be happy and joyful, do no harm, and reduce suffering for all beings (not just people).

originally posted by: tikbalang

originally posted by: TarzanBeta
The correct answer is simply to speak truth. Those that are humble enough to care about the truth will hear it. Those who want their own made up reality will not.

Since you don't know everyone's heart, that means talk to everyone and particularly those that seem to be seeking.

This all assuming you know the truth.

Those who want it for themselves, wont listen, and wont actually progress.. Everyone has a story to tell, and everyone has an experience you probably never experienced.. Those with an open mind, well they usually get lost..

IF we learn from our experiences, we desire to know truth.

Anyone who doesn't hasn't suffered enough yet.

But amazing are those who seek it without suffering of the body, but because of inquisition of the mind.