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Elie Wiesel has died at the age of 87 or has he ?

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posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 10:43 AM
I know this man can stir up some debate in the conspiracy community as to wheather he is real or a imposter as many claim , The author of more than 40 books with his seminal work being his publication of the book NIGHT . and Barnes &, both of which had listed "Night" as fiction, But a new translation in 2006 returned "Night" to the best-seller lists after it was selected for Oprah Winfrey's book club

Some say he was the real deal but question marks remain about the claims he made especially by a inmate and a eye witness to the Shoah

Was he a hero or villian because recently it was admitted by another survivor that his account was made up

In many countries it is illegal to even debate or to research the Holocaust /Shoah but questions remain about certain people who make claims to being witness to events , are they money grabbers ,fantasists .

Can we have a civil debate please on this matter , was Elie Wiesel really Elie Wiesel & If not who was he

What say you my learned Ladies & Gentelmen of ATS

posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 11:16 AM
a reply to: stonerwilliam

The fact that the victors are the ones that write the history books is something I've always been aware of.

-- EDIT: Ugghh....again? Am I really that bad at relaying my thoughts?

The idea that we are not even able to speculate, hypothesize, and draw our own conclusions.... Is only more proof to the idea that we are not allowed to know the full truth.

Ernst Zundel was actually a german who immigrated to Canada. He was prolific in voicing his opinion that the official story of the Holocaust was not true. And then, Germany extradited him back to Germany so that they could prosecute him.

Google search for Ernst Zundel

Ernst Christof Friedrich Zündel (born April 24, 1939) is a German[1][2] publisher known for promoting Holocaust denial.[3][4] He has been jailed several times: in Canada for publishing literature "likely to incite hatred against an identifiable group", and on charges of being a threat to national security; in the United States, of overstaying his visa; and in Germany for charges of "inciting racial hatred".[5][6][7] He lived in Canada from 1958 to 2000.

This is proof positive of Thought Crime.

Frankly, I don't care if he is right or wrong. I don't care if he is a neo-nazi.

His words.... his thoughts..... simply being against the official narrative of "History".

It is tragic that we live in such a world. One that we were warned about.

edit on 3-7-2016 by nullafides because: squirrels...damned...squirrels...

edit on 3-7-2016 by nullafides because: Much like squirrels, and opinions....we all have a nut to crack.

posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 11:25 AM
Yeah, we Germans have a special kind of opinion about holocaust-denial. Wonder why? Not really.
We of all countries have a special kind of responsibility to deny holocaust-denial.

It is not forbidden to speak of or about the holocaust in Germany, but it is forbidden to deny the existence of the holocaust. And I fully understand this. It has nothing to do with "thought-crime". We can't care about people from other countries saying that the holocaust did not happen, but we will not tolerate this for Germans.

posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 11:38 AM
a reply to: nullafides

interesting take on Thought Crime , I never thought of it that way before especially in that context , It would make for a interesting thread for the members here to discuss .

Elie if that was him seemed like a interesting chap if he was a imposter , as a fellow survivor claims him to be , We are getting to the stage in history where very few of those people are alive now but some have come out or are being found out to be imposters or out right liars which muddies the waters for the people that do research that time in history .

posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 11:43 AM
I am not suggesting that Ernst spoke about the holocaust and was jailed for doing such.

It even has it's own emotionally catchy label of "holocaust-denial".

War, is horrible. Death, is horrible. Genocide, is horrible.

But merely questioning the official history book story being a jailable offense? Yes, this is the definition of Thought Crime.

The man has a thought, and publishes it. That thought is not approved by the society he is in. He is sentenced to jail.

How could that be anything BUT thought crime? He did no physical harm, he did not commit larceny. He spoke his mind.

You know, ManFromEurope, I have a few very good friends from Germany. One, is a good man from Frankfurt. Younger, maybe 35. Another, is a woman I know from Berlin. East Berlin, as she was born before the wall fell, and was 18 when it came down. She experienced both sides of the reality of that wall. What I take away from my friendships with these two is that their response to anything about the Nazi party is one of communal shame. My male friend...I remember perfectly well...I mentioned an article in Der Spiegel about Hitler that had just been released in conversation. Admittedly, I was curious as to his reaction....his thoughts, observations, and feelings about it. His reaction, was dramatic. His face physically changed. His demeanor, his cadence of speech changed. Yet, he had *nothing* at all to do with the Nazi crimes of WWII other than cultural lineage.

Personally, I believe this is indoctrinated shame. The words you typed, could have been from his lips.

I'd hope you can try to look at this without emotion. Without the shame. This topic as a whole speaks more to Thought Crime than the horrible events that occurred during WWII, regardless of the perpetrator.

As a modern day German citizen.... is this the reality you really want? A reality that you too could be convicted of a crime for merely having a different thought, or for questioning the "facts" presented to you?

posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 11:50 AM
a reply to: stonerwilliam

And you're probably wondering exactly how I bring this up with regards to whether or not Wiesel was who he said he was.

Well, I did so because I see the possibility that his actions were meant as a tentpole to support the official story. History, as it was recorded, by the victors.

Look at Hollywood today. Look at all the movies produced about the Holocaust. Look at the blatant "good" and "evil" portrayed in these movies.

It only makes sense to me, that the victors have a vested interest in perpetuating the truth of history, as they'd have us believe it. Right down to the derisive nature of stating that Hitler cowardly took his own life in a bunker rather than face the consequences. Yet, forensic evidence has proven that the skull found and claimed to be that of Hitler's was actually that of a woman, not a man. Even the US government secretly believed that they felt that the idea of his escape to south america was credible. So credible, that their theories on this have been kept secret until very recently.

In life, something is true, or it is not. A story with loopholes such as this, tends to unravel.

posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 11:56 AM
a reply to: nullafides

Nobody is accusing Zundal of being a phony or a Plagarist for his work but a dark cloud hangs over Weisel in this respect , Who was this man really a Hungarian who forgot his mother tongue over the years he had been abroad , which is not so uncommon for some people and Yiddish is another tongue that he could not remember when asked .

Faulty memory or fraud

posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 12:02 PM
a reply to: stonerwilliam

I think you've mistook what I wrote.

I am saying that Wiesel is possibly a fake, and if he is a fake, was useful in propagating the official story. If this is true, he might have merely been a puppet. Or, a paid schill, for all intents and purposes.

In disagreeing with the official story, Zundel has been made a criminal, which is being found guilty of thought crime.

My statement is that if Wiesel is a fraud, it is pertinent to mention the thought crime of someone speaking out against the fraud that Wiesel was used as a tool to perpetuate.

In reality, I am highlighting a blatant connection between the fraud, and the indictment of thought crime.

edit on 3-7-2016 by nullafides because: Now with added SQUIRRELS!!!!

posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 12:10 PM
a reply to: nullafides

I found it shocking that his book NIGHT was on the fiction list of the big distributers maybe they knew something that made them place it there after his meeting with a fellow survivor of the camps .

And the amount of money he lost to Madoff is hardly loose change so he might have been a very well paid shill , will they ever show the tatoo on his arm now that he is dead or search his dna just for the record.

posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 12:17 PM
a reply to: stonerwilliam

Everything I've said, is hypothesis.

I have no proof of anything.

I have merely made my statements as questions that I have regarding what I am told. Things that I am told simply do not add up.

I genuinely believe you and I are on the same page. Any further debate, in my opinion, is a matter of semantics.

posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 01:12 PM
RIP Elie Wiesel.

As for Germany's outlook on Holocaust denial, I'm pretty certain it's illegal to deny it happened.

Their country knows it did terrible things in the past and they are owning up to it. They don't make any excuses about it and are dead set on never allowing it to happen again.

I find that much more respectable than China or Japan's feelings about WW2 war crimes.
Japanese War Criminals are still held in high distinction for their treatment of the Chinese pillages and POW torture.

posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 02:40 PM

originally posted by: ArnoldNonymous
RIP Elie Wiesel.

Their country knows it did terrible things in the past and they are owning up to it.

I'd say. Owning up to a mistake to the point where it is illegal to deny the mistake is taking "owning up to it" to a whole new level.

I read Night when I was a young boy and up until that time I had never read such an emotional book. I'll say this this about Night as I would any other book though: To debate who wrote something is beside the point. What is written is the point. Do people buy the book because of who wrote it? Or what the content is expected to be, based on who wrote it? Personally, I see it as the latter of the two. Content is King. As for it being fiction or non-fiction.......same deal. If it moves or inspires you to think and, possibly, act differently about something.......who cares? Again......Content is King. There are many books out there, The Necronomican comes to mind, where parts, or the whole, of the book are so good that it doesn't matter if the author or the content are fictional or not. They are works of art that stand on their own.

To debate who wrote something is to diminish what is written, and when it comes to a subject matter such as this, I'm not going to diminish it by nitpicking details that have nothing to do with the subject matter.

posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 03:41 PM
a reply to: DeepImpactX

What would your take be on Tania Head be then the woman who claimed to be at the scene of 9-11 and then under closer scrutiny it all appeared to be a elaborate con by her .

It is not a case of who did what to who , It is a question of these Walter Mitty type people in life , why claim to be real when time and research may show them to be fake and as Nullafides excellently pointed out it may be perceived as a hate crime to even point it out in some places .

Their whole lives are nothing more than lies , was Elie Wiesel one of those people , did he live his life as a Avatar or was he the real deal ,

REAL or FAKE , it does matter as we are here to deny ignorance and not embrace it because of a good yarn

posted on Jul, 5 2016 @ 04:18 AM
a reply to: nullafides

You did not understand my posting, or the effects you had on your friend.

We as Germans do completely accept the fact that we killed several million jews.
The simple act of denying this is the first step downwards to the barbarisms the Third Reich did upon us all. Yes, we as Germans suffered for those.

And we do not want to have to fight fascism in our own country again. We will never tolerate that.

You call it "thought-crime", we call it a cleansing of our worst past.

Many countries had and still have problems accepting the fact that their ancestors did awful things, even atrocities or war crimes in the Second World War. I am talking about rumania, hungary, there were mini-holocausts in nearly every European country. Germany is not proud about being the Great Catalysator for unleashing local prejudices against Jews, Sinti and Romanies, gays, and several other groups of minorities. But we answer to this past. And we condemn other countries (silently, but yes, we do) if they did not accept their part in the holocaust.

This has nothing to do with thought-crime. Every German can discuss the holocaust, but at the point of "it did not happen, there were no death-showers, never were 6.000.000 Jews killed by us" we draw the line. This stuff happened. Every person can go to the NEAREST CONCENTRATION CAMP, there was one in about every larger city.

Whoever denies the holocaust, commits the Thought-Crime of changing the past.

posted on Jul, 5 2016 @ 04:52 PM
a reply to: ManFromEurope

I was hoping for some discussion on wheather this person was Elie Weisel or not , not what happened in 39-45 and who did what to whom which always gets nasty in threads .

It is about people who claim to be either a survivor or a hero and under a microscope their whole life falls apart into a web of lies , A white woman claiming to be a black rights campaigner in America and a holocaust survivor are two of the recent ones to be found out .

A friend of mine works for a army charity SAAFA in the UK and they recently came across one of those people claiming to be a decorated Captain who was helping to collect money for the charity but it was funding his life style instead .

I made this thread in the hope i would find out more about people like them , why or how they do these things and are prepared to go to great lengths to keep the lie alive 24/7 /365 .


edit on 5/7/2016 by stonerwilliam because: (no reason given)

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