Online herd mentality...or, as I prefer to call it, Group Think

a reply to: Pinke

Thanks for your kind words.

It is certainly a very troubling cultural achievement on the part of TPTB. They have conditioned an incredible number of generations of clueless sheeple who get outraged at shallow petty things . . . ON CUE, ON DEMAND of their handlers.

And they are clueless about foundational eternal values and issues like true freedom, true maturity etc.

I'm curious . . . how much do you observe of the same thing in face to face groups?

Most of my groups are pretty conservative so it's a pretty slanted sample, imho.

a reply to: BO XIAN

In face to face groups I observe this all the time.

We have an employee at my work who rarely asks for help, but is a very very good worker. Learns from books always. This person gets spoken about as not asking enough questions, being arrogant, being a know-it-all, thinking they're better than everyone else ... I think they're shy. I've been on the receiving end of this too.

Have another one that struggles to get out of bed, but works like a machine and a minimum of an extra whole day every week. They constantly get trouble.

Also have some people that just don't like social events, or don't particularly have ambition. People find this odd too. They get refused promotions on the grounds of 'not wanting it enough'. I'm wondering if it 'wanting it' is a good thing.

Groups in general just aren't very diverse places. They come to conclusions on what certain types of behavior mean, and they don't aim to correct those behaviors. They generally exclude with the justification that those people should have 'personal responsibility' for their behaviors. It's nonsense really, but I've learned that you can only influence a tiny bit this way or that way. You can't stop people acting this way. If you successfully do they just take your behavior and internalize it into new dogmatic rules.

Am not sure it's TPTB that put this in place. I think it's what humans do sadly, and it's very easy for someone with incredibly thick skin and few scruples to take advantage of it once they've identified the rules of the herd. In my entire life I've worked in a single work place, one, that actually embraced uniqueness and people's oddities. It was pretty productive!

To me, personal responsibility is an output of capitalism that I don't like. It's not just 'supply and demand'... it directly rewards groups for excluding and ostracizing people with social and financial reward. If you do it well enough you end up on NBC or Oprah or something.

a reply to: nullafides

I thought the recent blizzard of 'snowflake' was a great example of groupthink and herd mentalities. It was slow to take hold and then suddenly page after political page was littered with the word. People were high-fiving each other and working in combinations of 'snowflake' and 'triggering' to really hammer their opponents. The copycat effect was fascinating to see as so many members sort of plagiarised each other's phrases in the sincerest forms of flattery - mimicry.

It took the opposition months to defend against it. Since then it's lost its popularity - the shine has gone. For six or so months, it was the perfect insult.

a reply to: Kandinsky

That's the thing. There are appropriate uses for "snowflake" and for "trigger".

The way that people were mindlessly using it....merely regurgitating without giving thought...was a rather strong sample of what I am talking about with regards to Group Think.

a reply to: Pinke

Well, the sig was literally a blank line followed by THREE characters.

OMG, 3 characters!!!

a reply to: Bluesma

The thought that a "sub-cutlure" could form in an online forum, is one that speaks to the absurdity of the human race.

A fu**ing sub culture? Dear God.


And you know what, if a blank line followed by three characters offends said subculture, then so be it. I am and must certainly be offensive.

"Respecting forum subculture" ? Are you kidding me?

I apologize...but, I cannot begin to take your comments in the least bit seriously.

In an attempt to end this peacefully.... might I suggest we agree to disagree?

originally posted by: nullafides
a reply to: BO XIAN

I find that there are tons of "FACT" mongers here.

Do you have proof ????? If not, shut up.....


Isn't this site for discussing things that are commonly regarded as fringe? Am I the only person that acknowledges not all discussions ????

How does one attempt to deny ignorance without seeking out and using facts rather than unsupported opinions (of which everyone has...several)?

That said, I agree about the herd mentality, both online and off, and I see it here in every post.
Could the meaning of your name there or signature have been offensive. I don't understand either, unless they thought you were being snarky?

a reply to: Orionx2

I totally get what you mean. Even the undercover cop went along with it.

originally posted by: Orionx2

originally posted by: Autorico
a reply to: Orionx2

I'm still confused as to why the rover ran over the bike in the first place.

Edit: NM I looked it up.

I hope you get my point. Like minded people will back like minded people even if they know they are wrong.

Yep.

I see posts that have been proved to be logically false or filled with false information that still get stars upon stars from their "gang."

It's silly, but self-affirming in ignorance.

And that's a reason there is so much ignorance everywhere: self-affirmation in and by ignorance.

Welcome to 'Murica.

originally posted by: nullafides
a reply to: Bluesma

The thought that a "sub-cutlure" could form in an online forum, is one that speaks to the absurdity of the human race.

A fu**ing sub culture? Dear God.


And you know what, if a blank line followed by three characters offends said subculture, then so be it. I am and must certainly be offensive.

"Respecting forum subculture" ? Are you kidding me?

I apologize...but, I cannot begin to take your comments in the least bit seriously.

In an attempt to end this peacefully.... might I suggest we agree to disagree?

I can only think you must not know what a subculture is.

This site has a culture of it's own. That is, there are certain interests we share in common (conspiracy, for example),
we have certain rules for behavior; a structure of what is allowed or not, within this space.
There are consequences for breaking those rules, exclusion from the group is a possible punishment for transgression.
We develop certain habits together, ways of posting, writing, responding...
We have "fads" or popular waves of subjects for discussion or ways of posting threads.

This is a culture. A smaller distinct culture within larger ones (the Internet community at large, the countries in which we live...).

Yes. Many forums have such a subculture. You will find different topics, focus, rules and common practices in them.
When they are young , they can be seen to struggle to define and develop theirs, but they eventually do it.

I'd like to point out that one of our common interests here, on this site, is to question, challenge and dare to oppose the mainstream and status quo.
Not following the crowd. Right?

But here, on this site, you just drop that, or what?
Seems the popular opinion here that everyone is patting each other on the back for agreeing with, is yours.
Now you got yer own herd. Ain't it nice?

a reply to: Liquesence

Belief, is belief. And it causes myopia.

Belief in science. Belief in religion. Belief in history, as it is told. Belief in "facts" as they are given.

What I was speaking to, is that questioning the established "facts".....merely saying that to the person questioning them the facts simply don't add up...... is attacked.

The rebuke is "Where's your poof?" Well, if one had the proof, they probably wouldn't be questioning said "facts", but actively denying them. Debating them.

Those here, and good god, I could write a list that goes beyond the character limit of a forum post... that attack others for simply questioning....are as guilty of blind belief as any religious zealot. And not much different.

If the world were without those who question.....we never would have made the achievements that man-kind pounds it's chest over.

Think about all the things that were said could not be done.

Then think about the ridicule the person(s) who opposed such a belief....dared to question.

Imagine our world today if it were not for those people.

Facts, when they truly are "facts", are a beautiful thing. But, facts are innately the victim of the relative viewer of those who declare it as a "fact".

a reply to: Bluesma

Truth be told... I question my own view of things as factual. I do this, as time and experience has shown to me time and time again, that the only thing that never changes, is change itself.

Much like sharks constantly swimming in an effort to be able to breathe...if we do not constantly question, our minds will become stagnant. Lifeless.

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: Bluesma

I somewhat agree.

However, when the RAD is serious enough, functionally, many people CANNOT LEAVE. It threatens them with so much anxiety that they are immobilized, if not terrified about even the idea of not BELONGING to that group.

BELONGING is a very basic and intense human need. All the more so for folks with serioius RAD.

Perhaps they need to experience not being accepted, so they can see it is not the end of the world- life goes on.
Funny paradox of life- once you are not too worried about avoiding something, it doesn't happen to you anymore.

a reply to: Pinke

I do agree that there is an inherently human aspect to the herd mentality.

We have a built-in INTENSE NEED TO BELONG.

Then it becomes an IN-GROUP VS OUT-GROUP mentality automatically.

And that can have horrid consequences as Dr Phil Zimbardo's prisoner experiments documented.

I do think that personal responsibility is CRUCIAL for healthy people and healthy societies.

Without personal responsibility we'd all just be pin balls in a great meaningless pin ball machine . . . with no reason to avoid smashing the next pin ball to smitereens just for kicks.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Thanks for your very insightful comments.

Rings true, to me.

a reply to: Liquesence

I'm not talking about fitting, mutually respectful, apt, congruent, sincere desires to seek out the facts and to truly avoid

BOTH a false negatives error and a false positives error.

I'm talking about folks who get orgasmic over hostile, haughty, stacked-agenda, shrill, "omniscient," assaultive, grossly hypocritical etc. ATTACKS by folks CLAIMING to "ONLY" be interested in the facts

when actually, their major agenda is to assault folks who are significantly different and/or who believe in significantly different things or different constructions on reality.

ABSOLUTELY INDEED. BEARS REPEATING WITH EMPHASIS

originally posted by: Bluesma
I can only think you must not know what a subculture is.

This site has a culture of it's own. That is, there are certain interests we share in common (conspiracy, for example),
we have certain rules for behavior; a structure of what is allowed or not, within this space.
There are consequences for breaking those rules, exclusion from the group is a possible punishment for transgression.
We develop certain habits together, ways of posting, writing, responding...
We have "fads" or popular waves of subjects for discussion or ways of posting threads.

This is a culture. A smaller distinct culture within larger ones (the Internet community at large, the countries in which we live...).

Yes. Many forums have such a subculture. You will find different topics, focus, rules and common practices in them.
When they are young , they can be seen to struggle to define and develop theirs, but they eventually do it.

I'd like to point out that one of our common interests here, on this site, is to question, challenge and dare to oppose the mainstream and status quo.
Not following the crowd. Right?

But here, on this site, you just drop that, or what?
Seems the popular opinion here that everyone is patting each other on the back for agreeing with, is yours.
Now you got yer own herd. Ain't it nice?

IN-GROUP vs OUT-GROUP sub-cultures exist all over the place and certainly online.

The bone-marrow, genetic, inherent and intense NEED to BELONG is extremely powerful. All the more so with such a huge percentage of the population afflicted with serious levels of RAD.

a reply to: nullafides

Those here, and good god, I could write a list that goes beyond the character limit of a forum post... that attack others for simply questioning....are as guilty of blind belief as any religious zealot. And not much different.

ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

Fitting questioning is great. I love vigorous dialogue with folks who see things differently.

It's the narrow, mindless, rigid, tunnel-visioned, arbitrary, psychodynamically generated, hypocritical, shrill, etc. etc. screeching of the seriously RAD afflicted hostile and assaultive folks that are the more troublesome.

a reply to: Bluesma

True enough.

Life has a lot of such paradoxes.

Thanks.

I do hope you are still pondering responding to that other thread. LOL.

originally posted by: BO XIAN

I do hope you are still pondering responding to that other thread. LOL.

I did respond! Though I had more turning in my head than what I wrote- something is processing for me on that subject and I am too close right now to explain it to anyone else in less than fifty thousand words. People tend to complain that I am too lengthy and convoluted when I process in writing.

Anyway, back on this subject....

I think that facing rejection from a group can be a beneficial experience. I am sure that is not what you, the OP wants to hear.

I got kicked out of one once (actually they claimed it was some sort of accident/glitch, but I am not sure of that) and I got so angry, I kept trying to contact everyone in other ways. I felt it was totally unwarranted and unjust, and it drove me crazy! There really was no reason- except perhaps I tend to systematically have an off-beat opinion on things that goes off in an unexpected slant which can tend to be unpopular, so I was afraid that was the reason.

When I finally decided to let it go, that was part of really accepting myself regardless of what anyone else thinks, and knowing it will make some people reject me. -And that is okay.

Their reasons may seem unreasonable or irrational to me, but that doesn't matter.
Actually I had gotten used to this in real life- I started life early being a reject and got used to that. But somehow, I had to deal with it in this medium.... I think I had formed the idea that it would be different with no one able to see me and my body cut off from the subconscious underlying exchanges that happen with tone of voice, movement, facial expression....

When you decide to stand beside yourself, even if everyone else rejects you, that is a powerful moment.
But as long as you have supporters boosting and petting you, you aren't there yet.