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The sin against the Holy Ghost?

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posted on Jul, 7 2016 @ 11:56 AM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

So is this akin to NBA tryouts, where many are called to be apart of the team during the summer league, but few are chosen, while the rest get booted?




posted on Jul, 7 2016 @ 12:12 PM
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a reply to: Dcopymope

No, this is the Parable of the Wedding Feast. Many people are saved/justified, that's simple, all it takes is calling upon the Name of the Lord. The wedding feast is different, not everyone is the bride of Christ.

If you remember Jesus said John was the greatest ever born of a woman, but the least special person under the new covenant is greater than John. Take that idea back to the beginning of the wedding feast parable, where God is calling the Jews and they reject the Messiah, so He says fine, invite anyone you can find. Not every saved person is the bride.



posted on Jul, 7 2016 @ 12:48 PM
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originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Dcopymope

No, this is the Parable of the Wedding Feast. Many people are saved/justified, that's simple, all it takes is calling upon the Name of the Lord. The wedding feast is different, not everyone is the bride of Christ.

If you remember Jesus said John was the greatest ever born of a woman, but the least special person under the new covenant is greater than John. Take that idea back to the beginning of the wedding feast parable, where God is calling the Jews and they reject the Messiah, so He says fine, invite anyone you can find. Not every saved person is the bride.


So the bride of Christ are the ones who are to be made kings in the new heaven and earth, whereas "the saved" are simply there having a jolly good time? Is there a difference there? I thought there was supposed to be a separation of those who claimed to be saved but are not, where the wheats are separated from the tares?
edit on 7-7-2016 by Dcopymope because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-7-2016 by Dcopymope because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 7 2016 @ 01:06 PM
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a reply to: Dcopymope

If I remember right the people who rule with Christ are the martyrs. And I'm not exactly sure how it works for the wedding feast, I know not every saved person is of the bride and I think the marriage supper/wedding feast is only for the bride of Christ.



posted on Jul, 8 2016 @ 10:56 PM
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originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Dcopymope

If I remember right the people who rule with Christ are the martyrs. And I'm not exactly sure how it works for the wedding feast, I know not every saved person is of the bride and I think the marriage supper/wedding feast is only for the bride of Christ.


Yeah, well I don't see any difference made between "the bride of Christ" and "the saved". The bride of Christ is also referred to as the Church if you are saved, and if you are of "the church", then that makes you the "bride of Christ" by default.



posted on Jul, 9 2016 @ 12:43 AM
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a reply to: Dcopymope

I don't think that's accurate. I think you mean every Christian who is saved is the body of Christ. The bride is a subset, those who are invited to the wedding feast. For example, in the rapture Jesus isn't coming back for the foolish virgins, only the wise. Both of the two groups of people in the parable are virgins, only 1 of the group gets to go with Him when He returns for them.



posted on Jul, 9 2016 @ 10:36 AM
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originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Dcopymope

I don't think that's accurate. I think you mean every Christian who is saved is the body of Christ. The bride is a subset, those who are invited to the wedding feast. For example, in the rapture Jesus isn't coming back for the foolish virgins, only the wise. Both of the two groups of people in the parable are virgins, only 1 of the group gets to go with Him when He returns for them.


Read Matthew 25 below. When "the virgins" are brought up to meet the bridegroom, there is a separation between the goats and the sheep, the wheat's and the tares before they even enter the kingdom. Those who did the things the Lord commanded are put on his right hand, redeemed, and made the bride of Christ. Those on the left who didn't do the least of the things Jesus Christ commanded are drop kicked into ever lasting fire with the rest of the scum. So, like I said, when it comes to the kingdom of God, there is no difference between "the saved" and "the bride". There is no in between, you are either of God or you are not, you are either saved or you are not, and if you are saved then that makes you of the bridegroom by default.


(Matthew 25:1-46) "Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

[2] And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

[3] They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: [4] But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

[5] While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. [6] And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

[7] Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

[8] And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

[9] But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

[10] And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

[11] Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

[12] But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

[13] Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

[14] ¶ For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

[15] And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

[16] Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

[17] And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

[18] But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord’s money.

[19] After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

[20] And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

[21] His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

[22] He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

[23] His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

[24] Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

[25] And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

[26] His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

[27] Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

[28] Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

[29] For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

[30] And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

[31] ¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

[32] And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

[33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

[34] Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

[35] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

[36] Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

[37] Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

[38] When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

[39] Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

[40] And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

[41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

[42] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

[43] I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

[44] Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

[45] Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

[46] And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."



posted on Jul, 9 2016 @ 11:16 AM
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a reply to: Dcopymope

But Jesus isn't talking about the exact same thing in those passages. The parable of the 10 virgins is the rapture, both group are virgins. The wise who made themselves ready and the foolish. It even says that we won't know when He comes for that. The Sheep and Goats judgment is at the 2nd coming to Earth, after Armageddon. And we are told exactly when that will be, 3 1/2 years, or 42 months, or 1280 days from the moment the abomination of desolation occurs.

The rapture carried the "doctrine of imminence", whereas His 2nd coming to Earth is specifically defined once we see the abomination of desolation.
edit on 9-7-2016 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2016 @ 11:18 AM
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so did you guys clear up exactly what it means to "blaspheme against the holy spirit"?



posted on Jul, 9 2016 @ 11:30 AM
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a reply to: TzarChasm
Nobody really disputed the answer offered in the opening post.



posted on Jul, 9 2016 @ 11:57 AM
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originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Dcopymope

But Jesus isn't talking about the exact same thing in those passages. The parable of the 10 virgins is the rapture, both group are virgins. The wise who made themselves ready and the foolish. It even says that we won't know when He comes for that. The Sheep and Goats judgment is at the 2nd coming to Earth, after Armageddon. And we are told exactly when that will be, 3 1/2 years, or 42 months, or 1860 days from the moment the abomination of desolation occurs.

The rapture carried the "doctrine of imminence", whereas His 2nd coming to Earth is specifically defined once we see the abomination of desolation.


Its your assumption that the great tribulation will only last for three years. I can't say that with absolute certainty, only that those days will be shortened for the sake of the saints, because no flesh will be saved if he doesn't. You seem to be saying that Jesus will return two more times and I can kind of understand why you would believe this. My understanding of this is fairly straight forward. I let the book speak for itself, no need to make it seem so complex that its like trying to understand rocket science. Its pretty clear to me that the order of events in a nutshell is this:

1. The beginning of sorrows

2. The great tribulation

3. The day of the Lord, where all saints are gathered together into the clouds.

4. The wrath of God is poured out onto the earth.

5. God returns with the saints and his angels for the battle of Armageddon

6. God reigns on earth for one-thousand years

7. Satan is let loose to gather the nations against the Kingdom, which fails, miserably.

8. The judgement of the wheat's and the tares, the goats and the sheep.

9. The new heaven and new earth, which is of course the end of it.



posted on Jul, 9 2016 @ 12:04 PM
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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: TzarChasm
Nobody really disputed the answer offered in the opening post.



That's because its pretty much the truth. The one unforgivable sin, as I understand it, is in attributing the work of the Holy Ghost to the works of Satan. Many heathens on this site like the Gnostic's who have claimed that Satan and the Father in heaven, you know, that old testament God, are one and the same have been blaspheming against the holy spirit for years, everyday and they don't even realize it, or maybe they do, and they just can't wait to get tossed into the lake of fire. If you claim that the Father and Satan are one, then so is Jesus and the Holy Spirit, as the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost are one and the same. If you've seen Jesus, or experienced the Holy Ghost, then you've seen and experienced the Father in heaven. This should be perfectly understood by all Christians as its stated in plain English, its not rocket science. This is why I consider the christian community, who believe themselves to be "the body of Christ" to be an absolute joke. They don't let Gods word speak for itself, they would rather do the opposite.
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posted on Jul, 9 2016 @ 12:29 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm
so did you guys clear up exactly what it means to "blaspheme against the holy spirit"?


Yes, watching Jesus perform miracles that God does and attributing the miracles to Satan.



posted on Jul, 9 2016 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: Dcopymope

Well, Jesus Himself says that period when the abomination of desolation happens will be the "great tribulation", that's the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week. (Matthew 24:21)

And there is only 1 second coming, that means the second advent of Christ. When everyone will see Him. I don't think the Bible says anyone besides the bride and the dead in Christ will see Him at the rapture, if I'm mistaken let me know. And it says with the rapture that He doesn't come to Earth but comes only to the clouds, or in the air.

I agree with your time line above, just remember Jesus says that the last 3 1/2 years of the 70th week is the "great tribulation" it's precise. There is a common misunderstanding that the entire 7 year period is the great tribulation.
edit on 9-7-2016 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2016 @ 12:56 PM
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originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Dcopymope

Well, Jesus Himself says that period when the abomination of desolation happens will be the "great tribulation", that's the last 3 1/2 years of Daniel's 70th week. (Matthew 24:21)

And there is only 1 second coming, that means the second advent of Christ. When everyone will see Him. I don't think the Bible says anyone besides the bride and the dead in Christ will see Him at the rapture, if I'm mistaken let me know. And it says with the rapture that He doesn't come to Earth but comes only to the clouds, or in the air.


Its pretty clear that the day of the Lord will be a global event seen by all.


(Revelation 6:12-17) "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

[13] And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

[14] And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

[15] And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"



(Matthew 24:29-31) "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

[31] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."



(Zephaniah 1:14-18) "The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.

[15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

[16] A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.

[17] And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.

[18] Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD’S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land."



posted on Jul, 9 2016 @ 12:56 PM
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originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: TzarChasm
so did you guys clear up exactly what it means to "blaspheme against the holy spirit"?


Yes, watching Jesus perform miracles that God does and attributing the miracles to Satan.


or vice versa. so if one were to say that the god of abraham is (or was) evil, would this equate to the same thing?



posted on Jul, 9 2016 @ 01:01 PM
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a reply to: Dcopymope

I agree, but the only thing that stays consistent with scripture is that when He comes for the rapture He comes to the clouds, when He comes to wage war and rule from David's throne He comes to earth itself. When He comes for His bride and the dead in Christ only His own will see Him, when He comes to Earth for the 2nd coming every eye shall see Him and He comes with His saints, not for them.

I'm a big stickler with being extremely precise, It's just the way I am. We are told to expect Him at any moment for the rapture, even the apostles though they would live to see the rapture. But when Jesus comes to wage war and rule it's a very specific time, numbered to the very day after the abomination of desolation. See the subtle differences?


edit on 9-7-2016 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2016 @ 01:05 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: TzarChasm
so did you guys clear up exactly what it means to "blaspheme against the holy spirit"?


Yes, watching Jesus perform miracles that God does and attributing the miracles to Satan.


or vice versa. so if one were to say that the god of abraham is (or was) evil, would this equate to the same thing?


Jesus said He came in His Father's name. Yeshua means "YHWH Saves". (Yah is Salvation)



posted on Jul, 9 2016 @ 01:10 PM
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originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: TzarChasm
so did you guys clear up exactly what it means to "blaspheme against the holy spirit"?


Yes, watching Jesus perform miracles that God does and attributing the miracles to Satan.


or vice versa. so if one were to say that the god of abraham is (or was) evil, would this equate to the same thing?


Jesus said He came in His Father's name. Yeshua means "YHWH Saves". (Yah is Salvation)


doesnt answer my question. lets put it another way: if one were to call the god of abraham the father of lies, would that be considered blaspheming against the holy spirit? or is that still a forgivable sin?
edit on 9-7-2016 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 9 2016 @ 01:31 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: TzarChasm
so did you guys clear up exactly what it means to "blaspheme against the holy spirit"?


Yes, watching Jesus perform miracles that God does and attributing the miracles to Satan.


or vice versa. so if one were to say that the god of abraham is (or was) evil, would this equate to the same thing?


Jesus said He came in His Father's name. Yeshua means "YHWH Saves". (Yah is Salvation)


doesnt answer my question. lets put it another way: if one were to call the god of abraham the father of lies, would that be considered blaspheming against the holy spirit? or is that still a forgivable sin?


Oh, no it would not. In the gospels the unforgivable sin is defined, the Pharisees witnessed Jesus cast out demons which they knew was the power of God and they said it was done by Satan.




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