What an official September 11 photographer filmed and why he says it cost him his freedom

a reply to: Salander

Surely you jest? These United States are a country that doesn't mind if one is a criminal. We are about to elect one to high office this November. But I digress.

Yes they do mind as we send them back if a country wants that person back...Argentina won't follow through with the extradition which shows there is a big difference between the two.

Problem is the person your talking about has never been charged with any crimes( or convicted ) so until that happens one is not considered a criminal...no matter what your thoughts are about that person.

Sonnenfeld is in possession of knowledge and pictures that are very incriminating.

Says who...him?

The man is wanted for murder he will say anything he can to portray himself as a victim who ran from the government...problem is they care less about him and if they wanted him gone they would have done so, but the fact he is wanted for murder and ran shows the real reason the US wants him extradited.

Like Assange, Snowden, Manning and several others, he is perceived by the government as an enemy of the state and its secrecy. For that reason he will be demonized forever.

Really, have you seen the government go after him for anything other than the murder of his wife?

Did they go to the lengths that they did with the other three...No they didn't which just shows they care less about him than any of the three you mentioned, but hey because he says it is true it must be right?

The government's behavior is often quite predictable.

Obviously it isn't unless you think everything they do has to be a conspiracy.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: wdkirk

What seems more plausible

Well since this is ATS what do you think?

Denying Ignorance is thrown out the window on this one, because as soon as one says 9/11 the common sense goes bye bye and gets replaced with it has to be a conspiracy...although they let the man discuss this many times before now and have done nothing shows they could care less about his 9/11 BS and are focused on his murdering of his wife.

As I said before...

Innocent men don't run to countries that don't extradite to the US, they stay and clear their name...something this man didn't want to do, and that is very telling.

I agree with you.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Maybe Argentina knows what other countries know, countries that shelter whistleblowers from the long arm of the US federal government. Countries like Ecuador who is sheltering Assange. Countries like Russia who is sheltering Snowden.

Poor Manning could not escape their clutches, but it seems the FEMA photographer/whistleblower did.

If you really believe that they want him for murdering his wife, I would say you might be quite suggestible.

The coverup for what happened at WTC has been going on since day one. This harassment of the photographer fits right in with that.

I have to wonder, if tptb want him out of the way so much, why they don't just send someone down to off him.
it's not like it hasn't been done before.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Yes, they even made a movie about it. Last Tango with Robert Duval.

a reply to: Salander

Maybe Argentina knows what other countries know, countries that shelter whistleblowers from the long arm of the US federal government.

You do know the same country sheltered Nazi's from prosecution after WW2, so they have a track record of letting those who commit murders in other countries free passes to live there without worry of being sent back.

Except he is hiding from murder charges as the man hasn't blown the whistle on anything, and has not provided any evidence to back the claim he makes.

Poor Manning could not escape their clutches, but it seems the FEMA photographer/whistleblower did.

Manning actually provided something of substance that got him in trouble this man only says he has something yet hasn't provided a shred of evidence to back the claim...there is a difference.

Also Manning was in the military when he gave up his info...a treasonous act.

This FEMA photog has nothing but his silly story that he is using to get people to forget he is wanted for murder.

If you really believe that they want him for murdering his wife, I would say you might be quite suggestible.

Because he is wanted for murdering his wife to believe he is running from the US government because he says so means you would believe anything if they say the government is after them without actual proof to back the claim.

The coverup for what happened at WTC has been going on since day one. This harassment of the photographer fits right in with that.

Says who?

You?

The person in question?

Who?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Yes TS, says me, ONLY for my own self.

I do not quickly believe the claims of known liars, and while I'm not happy to say it, the federal government has been demonstrating its mendacity AT LEAST since the Pentagon Papers, back when I was in the service.

So please forgive me for not believing the statements of known liars, either the Bush administration or the Obama administration.

Clearly you can believe as you wish, and I will believe as I know.

a reply to: SprocketUK

I have to wonder, if tptb want him out of the way so much, why they don't just send someone down to off him. it's not like it hasn't been done before.

Exactly it's been at least 13 to 14 years since this man fled to Argentina and the US hasn't done something with him yet, and that shows they could care less about him.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Do you honestly believe in the 9/11 official story?

a reply to: Salander

I do not quickly believe the claims of known liars

But you will believe what a man wanted for murder says without actually having one shred of evidence to back his claims, so exactly how do you know he isn't lying?

the federal government has been demonstrating its mendacity AT LEAST since the Pentagon Papers, back when I was in the service.

So because you were in the military and the because of papers that were from the Viet Nam war that means the government is nothing but bad...well that clears things up.

So please forgive me for not believing the statements of known liars, either the Bush administration or the Obama administration.

Um exactly who is lying about this man, because it is the state of Colorado that wants him back not the US government. The government is only involved because it has to do with an international fugitive that a state cannot deal with considering he is in another country.

Yes politicians lie, but that doesn't change the fact the man is wanted for a murder not the pics he took in 2001.

Clearly you can believe as you wish, and I will believe as I know.

It's not what you know it's what your conspiracy theory side of your mind that wants you to believe you know.

Unfortunately it takes actual evidence to convince me of things, and not just what a conspiracy theorist says...and the man in question is just that a conspiracy theorist wanted for murder.

a reply to: Nikola014

Do you honestly believe in the 9/11 official story?

My beliefs aren't the topic of this thread now is it?

But just to make you happy until one can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it isn't the truth then yes...and as of yet that hasn't happened.

Assumptions and coincidences do not make for the truth.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I asked a legitimate question, so that if any member wish to go into a further discussion with you on this topic, know your stance. In my eyes, by calling all events that took place prior during and after the 9/11, a coincidences, you have discredited yourself.

You just love your government, don't you?

originally posted by: tinner07

i guess it is a fact? there was a vault with gold under one of the towers.

I remember reading one of the "conspiracy" stories explaining the why of 911.

Apparently it was all just a great gold robbery.

The US was the worlds largest custodian of gold reserves. It keeps, or kept, the actual physical gold for many of the nations of the world in safe storage on US soil. The actual location of all that gold is/was secret, but most of it was said to be stored in secret vaults beneath the World Trade Center Towers.

While some of that gold belonged to the US, much of it didn't. Countries like Germany and Canada parked their gold reserves in these US vaults for safekeeping.

Now the US had a big problem with its national debt. And China was holding the largest amount of US Government Treasury Bonds. The Chinese refused to buy more bonds, to prop up the US economy, unless they got some real hard "collateral" from the US. If you recall, the US dollar was literally collapsing just before 911, a sign of lack of confidence in the US financial markets, and the ability of the US Gov to repay its huge debt.

So, what the US Gov did, was stage this "great gold robbery", to remove all the gold in the vaults stored below the Towers, and ship all the gold to China, so they could hold it as collateral. Under the guise of shipping all the steel to China, from the debris, to be "melted down". They secretly shipped the gold as well. They literally shipped "all metal" from that location to China. The Chinese couldn't care less about the steel, what they wanted was all the gold.

Now, the problem with this operation, of course, is that the US shipped all the gold. But, all the gold did not belong to the US. If the other nations found out that their gold was taken and shipped to China as part of collateral for US debt, that could cause international problems, maybe even war. That's why everybody who knew about this, who had any actual proof that this was being done, would be eliminated.

Its fine to be speculating, but photographic evidence would be trouble.

Well, the official story from the US Gov is that all the gold was recovered and relocated to a new safe facility. But, under the confusion and chaos of such a major disruptive event, the usual "protocols" for moving gold most likely were not followed. So, real gold left the vaults, and something arrived at the new vaults. But, what arrived? Was it the same gold? Or, was it gold plated tungsten, like shows up every now and then in African banks?

I think Germany got suspicious some time back, and made a request to get back all their gold from the US vaults, telling the US Gov that Germany would now store it's own gold in vaults in German Soil. The last I read about this was that the US was refusing to hand over Germany's gold to them. But, I lost interest in the whole thing and haven't followed up what happened since.

Did Germany get back their gold? I don't know. There are so many conspiracies around the world, its hard to keep track of them all.

But, the terrorism was the smokescreen, to enable the government to move the gold to China.

Now China doesn't own the gold. It's just "collateral". The gold still technically belongs to the nations that deposited their bullion with the US, except, it's not the US that is actually holding the physical gold.

What this means, is that if the US pays back china, all the money it has borrowed, China will simply return the gold.

The US can then put the real gold back in its vaults, and nobody would be any the wiser.

But, if the US "defaults" on payments, then China isn't left holding worthless paper, because they have possession of something tangible, the real gold bars, and the US would then have to explain to Germany et al, why they don't actually have any gold bars to return to them.

This is actually how the financial system works on a daily basis. Wall Street does these transactions all the time. Except here, the "scale" of the operation is so large, and the "secrecy" so critical, that a massive misdirection was constructed to hide the true operation under this smokescreen of terrorism, and invasion of Iraq etc..which is what everybody began thinking and talking about.

But, all that matters is that gold.

Because China is holding real gold bullion as collateral, they happily buy more US Government Treasury Bonds. And the US economy continues to function.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Chelsea Manning is a woman. Please do not be misgendering her.



as for thread topic, i have absolutely no faith in the OS whatsoever, but without this dude's proof being readily accessible this sadly remains at the level of a tale for two factions who have already made up their minds to play tug of war with.
As always, we need the proof!

Always makes me chuckle... how folks can think a country can pull off a conspiracy with at least hundreds (I think thousands) of people and have nobody talk... cant shut up a mid level fema photographer...

I am all for entertaining a conspiracy... but come on now... if he really had anything he would have been swooped up and disappeared.

a reply to: continuousThunder

Chelsea Manning is a woman. Please do not be misgendering her.

You do understand I don't care if he/she became a cow it doesn't change what happened now does it?

a reply to: Irishhaf

Always makes me chuckle... how folks can think a country can pull off a conspiracy with at least hundreds (I think thousands) of people and have nobody talk... cant shut up a mid level fema photographer...

Exactly right.

I am all for entertaining a conspiracy... but come on now... if he really had anything he would have been swooped up and disappeared.

Interesting that the US can supposedly cause all the craziness in the world, but they can't deal with one single man.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Because they can orchestrate a massive timed terror attack and blowing buildings up around millions of people without leaving a single confirmed clue.

BUT it is just too hard to have one man slip and fall down the steps, or die of a heart attack in his sleep.


Yea RIGHT

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Irishhaf

Interesting that the US can supposedly cause all the craziness in the world, but they can't deal with one single man.

They don't have to.

The great thing about democracy is that everybody has a conspiracy theory, and the truth is drowned out by all the speculations.

So, you only need to eliminate the actual proofs.

People who just know things without "standing" or "proof" are not threats.

So the guy has some photos of gold vaults. But the gov already said there were gold vaults there, and claim to have recovered all the gold and moved it.

At the time he ran to Argentina, maybe the government didn't want the extent of the gold deposits known. Maybe it was less or more than they were claiming.

But, with the passage of time, the issue becomes less important.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

LOL, do you realize that in your first statement in the referenced post, you showcased EXACTLY how the govt could silence someone without killing them???LOL

Jaden