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Is it likely that every planet has all the same elements we do?

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posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 05:52 AM
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Hi all,

Gearing up for Junos arrival, i was reading a bit more about Jupiter to refresh my knowledge and reading about the hypothetical metallic H core got me thinking..is it likely that every planet has amounts of all the elements we have here on Earth? Will there be some Praseodymium on Mercury? Will there be some Tellurium on Saturn, or Neon on pluto etc...

I would imagine yes...but i would be nice to get a more knowledgeable answer




posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 06:03 AM
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originally posted by: 3danimator2014
Hi all,

Gearing up for Junos arrival, i was reading a bit more about Jupiter to refresh my knowledge and reading about the hypothetical metallic H core got me thinking..is it likely that every planet has amounts of all the elements we have here on Earth? Will there be some Praseodymium on Mercury? Will there be some Tellurium on Saturn, or Neon on pluto etc...

I would imagine yes...but i would be nice to get a more knowledgeable answer
wish could tell you for sure, happy Thursday. any how, I love this day that is ruled by Jupiter
Maybe I can study the elements and get back to you on this
Surely there are scientist here
Never heard of tellurium
Nice OP, thank you for posting
Will be following this... discussion of elements?



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 06:05 AM
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a reply to: 3danimator2014

I'd be amazed if the planets didn't have the same spread and relative quantities of elements and daughter elements of radioactive decay. Perhaps the gas giants are a bit different but the solid bodies should be similar to each other unless they have something unique in their origin like a planet perturbed from orbit in a different solar system and captured by our own (Venus is high on my suspect list for being adopted by our sun)



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 06:07 AM
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originally posted by: peppycat

originally posted by: 3danimator2014
Hi all,

Gearing up for Junos arrival, i was reading a bit more about Jupiter to refresh my knowledge and reading about the hypothetical metallic H core got me thinking..is it likely that every planet has amounts of all the elements we have here on Earth? Will there be some Praseodymium on Mercury? Will there be some Tellurium on Saturn, or Neon on pluto etc...

I would imagine yes...but i would be nice to get a more knowledgeable answer
wish could tell you for sure, happy Thursday. any how, I love this day that is ruled by Jupiter
Maybe I can study the elements and get back to you on this
Surely there are scientist here
Never heard of tellurium
Nice OP, thank you for posting
Will be following this... discussion of elements?



Well, im always up fro discussing elements...



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 06:24 AM
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a reply to: 3danimator2014
That would depend on the elemental makeup of the protoplanetary cloud where those planets are born. That elemental makeup depends on which elements were produced in the supernovae nearby.

But I suspect that all the planets have all those elements, albeit if varying proportion.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 06:26 AM
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Every planet is different, Some common elements will be present in all planets in different proportions hydrogen for example. Others element wont exist on any planet as they are too extreme and unstable.

The composition of the planets depend on the star protoplanetary disk, so a planet of the same star will be some what similar, for example rocky planets here are similar (earth, mars) and we don't have a gold planet, carbon planet...

Then although it is believed most heavy atoms are formed by supernovas there are local process that produce heavy atoms in the planets itself, so some planets may not have some elements at all.

Different stars may have planets with the same elements as earth but with different ratios that produce very different results, so instead of forming in a rich silicon/oxygen environment like earth it can be formed on a rich carbon/oxygen one to produce a carbon planet



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 06:59 AM
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originally posted by: Indigent
Every planet is different, Some common elements will be present in all planets in different proportions hydrogen for example. Others element wont exist on any planet as they are too extreme and unstable.


Iim not sure i understand. Why would another planet possibly not have unstable elements like Radon, Astatine, Polonium etc if they exist here on earth (albeit in small/minute quantities)


originally posted by: Indigent
The composition of the planets depend on the star protoplanetary disk, so a planet of the same star will be some what similar, for example rocky planets here are similar (earth, mars) and we don't have a gold planet, carbon planet...


Interesting. And there are stars out there whos protoplanetary disks contain wildly different concentrations of the elements we have? I assume that would depend on what generation the star is?


originally posted by: Indigent
Then although it is believed most heavy atoms are formed by supernovas there are local process that produce heavy atoms in the planets itself, so some planets may not have some elements at all.


I dont understand, did you mistype here?
But your last sentence there does answer my question...so you are suggesting that there may be planets out there that contain 0% of some of the elements we have?


originally posted by: Indigent
Different stars may have planets with the same elements as earth but with different ratios that produce very different results, so instead of forming in a rich silicon/oxygen environment like earth it can be formed on a rich carbon/oxygen one to produce a carbon planet


Sure, i get that, but would that affect the appearance of the rare earts on that planet (for example)
edit on 30-6-2016 by 3danimator2014 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 07:09 AM
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Unless we got holes on the period table of elements to fill, I'd say we are aware of them. Unless they are made up of something other than elements



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 07:10 AM
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a reply to: Pilgrum




I'd be amazed if the planets didn't have the same spread and relative quantities of elements and daughter elements of radioactive decay


It's interesting how different people have different views on what is reasonable to assume.

I for one would be amazed if they did.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 07:10 AM
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a reply to: 3danimator2014

I imagine that the universe is an infinite and interesting place to be alive in. All is possible, although not nescessarily probable.

Science will answer your questions in time...or at least povide you the framework to base your own conclusions.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 07:30 AM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

If all the bodies in our solar system are formed from the same initial accumulation of dust or whatever, and no centrifuge effect on the distribution of matter in the spinning cloud, all those bodies should be somewhat similar in composition. But that's all theoretical I guess. We can pretty much estimate the age of the elements in our solar system by observing the relative amounts of various isotopes present related to their known half-life figures but earth is presently the only place that sort of long term study has been done so far.

So yes there's considerable room for variation out there.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 09:45 AM
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a reply to: 3danimator2014

Im not talking about that, what im saying is for example element 118 wont exist naturally in any planet.

Several different protoplanetary disk have been observed, and its theorized that they can yield different types of planets like the possibly observed but still not confirmed carbon planet PSR J1719-1438 b.

All the elements that exist since the planet formation is called primordial isotopes, these are the ones that comes from protoplanetary disk, that in theory comes from older supernovas and neutron star collisions, then there are non primordial isotopes that are constantly generated inside the planet, like radon, these are formed basically by radiation decay and there are factors than influence this like chemical environment, what happens naturally in a silicon oxide environment may not happen in a carbon oxide one, the radiation that emits the sun is not the same as a red dwarf, or a supernova, all this will affect.

In short, if a planet is formed in a environment that only has hydrogen, there wont be much else, if the mock up of the protoplanetary disk is not similar the planet will be different in the primordial isotopes, and even if the composition is the same there is no really certainty to say the radiation decay will be similar to produce similar amount of non primordial elements.

Think about it, just the change of having a magnetic field or not is the reason the moon has helium 3 and earth not, and helium 3 itself its there because the sun produce it, and constantly bombard the moon with it, not all stars have fusion of hydrogen but some has helium fusion and in these there wont be helium 3 to begin with.
edit on 30-6-2016 by Indigent because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 10:08 AM
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the universe is extremely vast. I cannot imagine every element is here on earth.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 10:50 AM
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originally posted by: prizim
the universe is extremely vast. I cannot imagine every element is here on earth.


Well, you dont have to imagine anything if you understand the science. Do you know how the periodic table works?



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 10:56 AM
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originally posted by: Indigent
a reply to: 3danimator2014

Im not talking about that, what im saying is for example element 118 wont exist naturally in any planet.

Several different protoplanetary disk have been observed, and its theorized that they can yield different types of planets like the possible observed but still not confirmed carbon planet PSR J1719-1438 b.

All the elements that exist since the planet formation is called primordial isotopes, these are the ones that comes from protoplanetary disk, that in theory comes from older supernovas and neutron star collisions, then there are non primordial isotopes that are constantly generated inside the planet, like radon, these are formed basically by radiation decay and there are factors than influence this like chemical environment, what happens naturally in a silicon oxide environment may not happen in a carbon oxide one, the radiation that emits the sun is not the same as a red dwarf, or a supernova, all this will affect.

In short, if a planet is formed in a environment that only has hydrogen, there wont be much else, if the mock up of the protoplanetary disk is not similar the planet will be different in the primordial isotopes, and even if the composition is the same there is no really certainty to say the radiation decay will be similar to produce similar amount of non primordial elements.

Think about it, just the change of having a magnetic field or not is the reason the moon has helium 3 and earth not, and helium 3 itself its there because the sun produce it, and constantly bombard the moon with it, not all stars have fusion of hydrogen but some has helium fusion and in these there wont be helium 3 to begin with.


I understand now. Thanks for explaining it.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 10:58 AM
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a reply to: 3danimator2014

That's correct, if a planet condenses from a first gen supernova you may not have as many heavy elements, getting a lot of heavy elements might take two passes.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 11:14 AM
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originally posted by: Bedlam
a reply to: 3danimator2014

NVM

Made a mistake in comprehension. I thought you were talking about planetary formation around pop III stars, not the supernovae from them.


edit on 30-6-2016 by Jonjonj because: cos I was wrong



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 11:32 AM
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originally posted by: Jonjonj
I thought you were talking about planetary formation around pop III stars, not the supernovae from them.



Well, it's likely Sol System is a sort of mix of everything from virgin hydrogen to one or two predecessor supernovae. If Sol were the sort of star to nova, then I'd expect even more metallicity in the debris. At some point, though, you can generate all the unstable transuranics you'd like and none of them will be around for planetary use by the time the next system forms.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 12:19 PM
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As others have said, no planet will have different elements than what Earth has. Those planets may have a greater or lesser amount of specific elements (for example: more iridium than Earth, but less gold than Earth), but the periodic table is the periodic table, so there will be no elements on another planet that we don't know exist...

...That is to say, there is no "Element number 19-and-a-half" between Potassium (Element 19) and Calcium (Element 20).

And before someone counters this with "well -- what about element 120, or 121???", my answer to that is that even though we have never observed many of those heavier elements, we know that they can possibly exist in some form, even if they only exist temporarily in a transitional state between two other elements as some elements decay. For example, science knew for decades that Element 115 (infamous due to its connection to the Bob Lazar story) almost certainly existed prior to it being confirmed through observation, and even had a place-holder for it on the periodic table prior to its confirmation. However, any planet that we can go to and dig stuff up will not be a place where element 115 is stable (i.e., doesn't quickly decay into something else).

edit on 2016-6-30 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 01:27 PM
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I like this line of questioning . . . . but

They may have trace amounts, but as has been pointed out they will be in different ratios.

1.
The Sun gives off heat which allows the ices (various gasses) to melt and release the more dense elements to accumulate. So, closer to the Sun, generally more concentrated rocky and metallic elements.

2.
Impacts by celestial bodies allowed material to continue to accumulate on planets. In our solar system the orbits of Jupiter and Saturn prevent many larger impacts from occurring within the inner solar system which prevents a uniform distribution.

Orbital Resonance


A past resonance between Jupiter and Saturn may have played a dramatic role in early Solar System history. A 2004 computer model by Alessandro Morbidelli of the Observatoire de la Côte d'Azur in Nice suggested that the formation of a 1:2 resonance between Jupiter and Saturn (due to interactions with planetesimals that caused them to migrate inward and outward, respectively) created a gravitational push that propelled both Uranus and Neptune into higher orbits, and in some scenarios caused them to switch places, which would have doubled Neptune's distance from the Sun. The resultant expulsion of objects from the proto-Kuiper belt as Neptune moved outwards could explain the Late Heavy Bombardment 600 million years after the Solar System's formation and the origin of Jupiter's Trojan asteroids.[52] An outward migration of Neptune could also explain the current occupancy of some of its resonances (particularly the 2:5 resonance) within the Kuiper belt.


3.
A planets atmosphere affects the amount of energy which reaches the surface of a planet leading to very different atmospheric content which also leads to very different chemical reactions ( for example Venus' run away greenhouse which prevented water from being formed despite having all the ingredients at one time).

Venus Greenhouse


Venus
A runaway greenhouse effect involving carbon dioxide and water vapor may have occurred on Venus.[9] In this scenario, early Venus may have had a global ocean. As the brightness of the early Sun increased, the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere increased, increasing the temperature and consequently increasing the evaporation of the ocean, leading eventually to the situation in which the oceans boiled, and all of the water vapor entered the atmosphere. On Venus today there is little water vapor in the atmosphere. If water vapor did contribute to the warmth of Venus at one time, this water is thought to have escaped to space. Some evidence for this scenario comes from the extremely high deuterium to hydrogen ratio in Venus' atmosphere, roughly 150 times that of Earth, since light hydrogen would escape from the atmosphere more readily than its heavier isotope, deuterium.[10][11] Venus is sufficiently strongly heated by the Sun that water vapor can rise much higher in the atmosphere and be split into hydrogen and oxygen by ultraviolet light. The hydrogen can then escape from the atmosphere and the oxygen recombines.



Conclusion:
They may have the same elements, but that is far different than having the proper ratios of pressure and temperature for molecules useful to humans to form.

-FBB
edit on 30-6-2016 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: 101




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