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The study of time, and how it may flow backwards

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posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 03:16 PM
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After alot of begging, I pushed a friend of mine to take the time to write his theory on how time flows backward.
 


Time is too slow for those who wait,
too swift for those who fear,
too long for those who grieve,
too short for those who rejoice,
but for those who love time is eternity.
-- Henry Van Dyke, Poet 1852-1933

While for the poet, time is closely related and connected to emotions and judgements, for the physicist time is closely related to existence, and interestingly non-existence. Albert Einstein, one of the seminal thinkers at the time of the “origin” (in an article about time I will put all my lingual assumptions about time in quotes) of “modern”, quantum physics said, “Space by itself, and time by itself, are doomed to fade away into mere shadows…”

In a search for universal (and even species) “origins”, scientists have studied and modeled the “beginnings” and have worked very close to “fractions of a second” “after” the singularity referred to as The Big Bang.

This orientation makes sense only because of a trick of our consciousness. As the mathematics of “modern” physics suggests we are able to remember the “past” even if imperfectly. We certainly seem to have access to the “past” in a way we do not have access to the “future.” It’s much more rare for people to have even generally incomplete glimpses into the “future” (this would be cases of precognition, reflecting back via déjà vu, or even simple forcasting).

Despite this experiential difference, there is no mathematical reason to have time prediction/access limited. In the probability equations, even in the non-Quantum, Newtonian equations, there was no limitation to having time be a positive number or the flow of time be unidirectional.

I propose a potential reason that is bold and shocking and is based on an equally bold proposition.

1) Time does not flow forward it in fact flows “backward” or in all directions.
2) Our perception of time and the “reason” humans exist and the universe does is because it must as a result of the experiments scientists have done in our future.

When I was getting my degree in “modern” physics, I was (by the way was is really a time referencing word) drawn to the inner search of the atom and it’s component parts. When we broke though the proton, neutron, and even into the electron we found that these objects were not so much comprised of specific things as of possible things based on the rules of conservation. It’s not always the same composition each time, but it always follows the rules.

So scientists would collide subatomic particles and take “snap shots” of what’s going on. By exposing things to fields, they were able to make determinations about charge and mass.

So take one of these particles, the Boson. The Boson would be discovered and experiments run. Like all good experiments they started with a hypothesis and the hypothesis was supported or not by the results.

One guess made is what the mass of the Boson would be. Indeed, the experiment was a success and the measurement of the mass of the Boson was found, fit the model within error, and supported the way the world worked based on tried and seemingly true principles of physics.

Now, upon further investigation, something came up. “Hmm, what about this other law of physics,” thought a physicist. “That result sets the universe in a tail spin. It really has to be different, in fact, the mass should be this much less and I suspect there’s an entirely different particle with the difference and with opposite spin angular momentum.”

Naturally I’m oversimplifying; however, this is exactly what happened. “Time and time again”, the mass of the Boson changed. “Time and time again” new particles (the first time it was the pion) appeared.

What is truly beautiful, these refinements and alterations happened in what I call the gap. The gap is the central limit of uncertainity. In other words, the precision of the instruaments used to measure in the case of most of the experiments and ultimately based on the Heisenberg uncertainty limit.

The interesting question to ask is…did the mass of the Boson change? Or was it methodological and/or uncertainly error? Are the “laws” of physics violable but only until recognized? I propose that everything did indeed change and that the change was caused, even backward, because of the experiment. But our perception of the event is linear forward.

I further suggest, that we are here on this planet and the universe itself I is here because of experiments being conducted by scientists in our “future.”

Most recently, I’ve come to believe that those scientists have done experiments to prevent us from seeing forward in our “memories” as we do back into our “memories.”

I suspect, the limitation is necessary for us to conduct the right experiments along the way. Much like, we can reflect on our past to select different choices for the “future” bringing about a specific and unique reality.

Some ask how can time be running “backwards” or then what “stated” the future… However, those questions again ignore that the wave functions of quantum physics don’t need to reference a before or after. It needs only reference a change.

Further, it confuses something which is infinite but bounded and something which is infinite, bounded and expanding.

Time is doing that.

In fact, our early example of getting close and closer to the proposed singularity called the Big Bang is an example of bounded infinity. Since there’s no meaningful “before” the big bang, there can be no meaningful message about the “moment” of it. Why? Because again, the equations speak more to a change as time flows. Since there’s no way to get “before” it message about it is limited.

Furthermore, we can keep getting closer, closer, closer, but we’re always still outside. Sort of the same way we really can’t touch another object. We can get closer and closer and eventually force fields will prevent us from getting any closer without exerting more work (which the fields will then exert more and so on).

To close my post which opens this discussion, I’d like to again quote Einstein, “Time and space are modes by which we think not conditions in which we live.”

So let’s get some valuable thinking going about the nature of time. The real advantage is, we may just do the experiments which will allow us to have had perfect recollection of the future and make some of the best choices.

 


So you can tell me what you think. Im not so sure what I think, we have gone around and around with this.




posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 08:58 AM
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Hmm interesting post SpittingCobra. It seems really close to what physists think the nature of time is right now. Not that they are saying it goes backwards, but that Time exists all at once, and doesn't "flow" in any direction. I know thats sorta different then what you buddy is saying in this piece, but It seems very close. Your friend a Prof or something? You should convince him to open up an ATS account
I'd love to see a scientific debate between him and Amantine. Now THAT would be interesting.



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by sardion2000
Your friend a Prof or something? You should convince him to open up an ATS account
I'd love to see a scientific debate between him and Amantine. Now THAT would be interesting.


He is not a Prof, he is very smart. He graduated from IU. I wll ask him to become a member, I dont know if he has the time. We will see, Glad you liked the post.

Not only would I like to see that Debate, I would also like to see him debate the gay issue and God with among others DR H.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 12:40 AM
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The theory of time flowing backwards as well as forward sounds interesting. I have sometimes wondered if an object was not experiencing forward flowing time as we are familiar with but experiencing backwards flowing time, how or in what manner could we observe this object if we could observe it. It might be as if something is there but unobservable since we could not see the object and remember seeing it. Has the 98 percent of the dark matter in the universe been accounted for yet? I'm just hinting that perhaps backwards flowing objects have mass and are creating gravity. Of course all of this is wild speculation on my part.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 07:38 AM
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Originally posted by orionthehunter
The theory of time flowing backwards as well as forward sounds interesting. I have sometimes wondered if an object was not experiencing forward flowing time as we are familiar with but experiencing backwards flowing time, how or in what manner could we observe this object if we could observe it. It might be as if something is there but unobservable since we could not see the object and remember seeing it. Has the 98 percent of the dark matter in the universe been accounted for yet? I'm just hinting that perhaps backwards flowing objects have mass and are creating gravity. Of course all of this is wild speculation on my part.


Dear Orion and Group,

Yes, we think we've figured out the 'dark matter'and it's all around us..it is called the zero-point field. The idea of space as a vacuum is now nixed forever..[nature abhors a vacuum anyway] but we've discovered that we are in a virtual matrix which is basically designed to enhance or make real whatever we imagine...that time, space, the universe is more illusion than anything else, and that whatever we do influences other dimensions.
Zero-point field may even help explain some earthly 'time-space' related events which affect hundreds of people a year...near-death-experiences and consciousness outside of the body..or massively accurate precognition feats by some testees under lab conditions recently..
The answer, is not '42'..the anser is the zero-point field.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 09:28 AM
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Originally posted by Shai
...which is basically designed to enhance or make real whatever we imagine...that time, space, the universe is more illusion than anything else, and that whatever we do influences other dimensions.
Zero-point field may even help explain some earthly 'time-space' related events which affect hundreds of people a year...near-death-experiences and consciousness outside of the body..or massively accurate precognition feats by some testees under lab conditions recently..
The answer, is not '42'..the anser is the zero-point field.


Shai ,
What ever we imagine? Is that your representation of Zero point field "theory" ?
It merely proposes an alternate view to mass and inertia which are supported by some very interesting mathamatics. But the whole thing sounds completely absurd- No matter , no time - wack!


SpittinCobra,
The article about time flowing backwards I think I have read before somewhere and also the article is pretty sketchy, can you ask your friend to elaborate it with more Physics it is very interesting how he draws up his conclusions as to why time flows backwards.
BTW here is an interesting article on the "flow " of Time.www.zulenet.com...



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by IAF101
SpittinCobra,
The article about time flowing backwards I think I have read before somewhere and also the article is pretty sketchy, can you ask your friend to elaborate it with more Physics it is very interesting how he draws up his conclusions as to why time flows backwards.
BTW here is an interesting article on the "flow " of Time.www.zulenet.com...


I copied and pasted this qoute to an email I sent him, I will post what ever he sends me back.



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by IAF101

Originally posted by Shai
...which is basically designed to enhance or make real whatever we imagine...that time, space, the universe is more illusion than anything else, and that whatever we do influences other dimensions.
Zero-point field may even help explain some earthly 'time-space' related events which affect hundreds of people a year...near-death-experiences and consciousness outside of the body..or massively accurate precognition feats by some testees under lab conditions recently..
The answer, is not '42'..the anser is the zero-point field.


Shai ,
What ever we imagine? Is that your representation of Zero point field "theory" ?
It merely proposes an alternate view to mass and inertia which are supported by some very interesting mathamatics. But the whole thing sounds completely absurd- No matter , no time - wack!


SpittinCobra,
The article about time flowing backwards I think I have read before somewhere and also the article is pretty sketchy, can you ask your friend to elaborate it with more Physics it is very interesting how he draws up his conclusions as to why time flows backwards.
BTW here is an interesting article on the "flow " of Time.www.zulenet.com...



Dear Spittin Cobra,

An intelligent question deserves the best possible answer..so I took the time to go find it for you:
users.erols.com...

And although I am no Buddhist I will cheerfully acknowledge that about one thing he was right..it is all an "illusion" in that despite what our senses tell us...the universe isn't 'real; in fact the universe is a reflection of our perception, and not the other way round.
This by itself should not be a shock to anyone familiar with physics theory, Schroedinger's Cat or the Uncertainty principle....or any indeed who understands the old axiom, the observer is the experiment...

-Sincerely
-Shai

l



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 06:01 AM
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users.erols.com...

sorry the l was left off the html in the link above. I hope you take the time to read it as i did and ..well, you'll see.

;-)



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 06:18 AM
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The Zero-Point Field and Inertia
Authors: Bernhard Haisch, Alfonso Rueda
Comments: 8 pages, no figs
Journal-ref: in "Causality and Locality in Modern Physics" (G. Hunter, S. Jeffers, J.-P. Vigier (eds.), Kluwer Acad. Publ., pp. 171-178, (1998)

"A brief overview is presented of the basis of the electromagnetic zero-point field in quantum physics and its representation in stochastic electrodynamics. Two approaches have led to the proposal that the inertia of matter may be explained as an electromagnetic reaction force. The first is based on the modeling of quarks and electrons as Planck oscillators and the method of Einstein and Hopf to treat the interaction of the zero-point field with such oscillators. The second approach is based on analysis of the Poynting vector of the zero-point field in accelerated reference frames. It is possible to derive both Newton's equation of motion, F=ma, and its relativistic co-variant form from Maxwell's equations as applied to the zero-point field of the quantum vacuum. This appears to account, at least in part, for the inertia of matter. "

You know, a guy in florida built a castle with his bare hands, using no crane or hydraulics, and no help from his neighbours to move, raise and balance rocks and stones weighing several tons. He did it less than 50 years ago and no one knows how. It is considered an archaelogical wonder by current experts, rivalling the Egytians and Mayans in freemasonry.
How did he do it? By tapping into the zero-point field.

You know what God considered man's greatest sin? Building the tower up to heaven using 'bricks & mortar instead of stones'..or attempting to duplicate
God's way of building things through artificial means.
The guy in Florida figured out how to build without bricks and mortar..by moving stones without machinery or slave labour. Until you can explain that feat I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss ZPE, its relationship to inertia , which we know is a manifestation of quantum vibration , nor would I under-estimate the average human's ability to master the art of geomancy

Thanks again so much for your considered response

-Sincerely
-shai



posted on Jan, 20 2005 @ 05:24 PM
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As for the coral castle, I have heard of a great theory on the matter that he used Wind power and an elaborate pullie system to do what he did. I cannot remember where I read it from, but it was from a reliable source. I'll try and dig up the information. BTW I agree with your statement about Uncertainty and how WE percieve it. It is all really an illusion, allthough could we possibly achieve a state where we can see through the illusion?



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