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Spanish PM Mariano Rajoy opposes Scotland EU talks , "if the UK leave, Scotland leaves".

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posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 09:43 AM
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Nicola Sturgeon has been in Europe today meeting with senior EU officials about an independent Scotland joining or remaining in the EU , Sturgeon believes she can gain entry to the club after cutting ties with England but she ignores that fact that Spain has in the past said they would oppose an independent Scotland in the EU.

Today Spain has reiterated its position by saying it was "extremely against" membership for Scotland without England.

Mr Rajoy said after a summit of EU leaders in Brussels that he wanted to be "very clear Scotland does not have the competence to negotiate with the European Union".

He added: "Spain opposes any negotiation by anyone other than the government of United Kingdom. "I am extremely against it, the treaties are extremely against it and I believe everyone is extremely against it. If the United Kingdom leaves... Scotland leaves."
www.bbc.co.uk...


Welcome to the real world Nicola , the grass isn't greener on the other side.




posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 09:49 AM
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Knew it.

So will Belgium I bet.

Sorry Scotland but your leaving the EU with us



posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 09:51 AM
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a reply to: gortex

Can you imagine the paper shuffling going on in the halls of bureaucratic land . Hey Ukraine ,what do you think now ,or how about you Turks ...?? ...This may end up dissolving NATO as well ....who knows , ....



posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 09:54 AM
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so scotland get their second referendum and, hopefully vote the right way this time.



posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 09:54 AM
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a reply to: crazyewok




So will Belgium I bet.

Yep , they don't want to give the Walloons hope of autonomy anymore than the Spanish want to give it to Catalonians.
Surprised Nicola Sturgeon didn't already know that.



posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 09:59 AM
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Correction,

Scotland is a country which makes up part of the Union (United Kingdom) like England, Wales and N. Ireland. Since the vote was UK wide, the vote was for the UK as a whole to leave to EU. This wasn't a vote for solely for England to leave nor Wales or N. Ireland this was a vote for all. Scotland needs to understand that.

If Scotland wants to join the EU then Scotland must become a independent country and they must call for a second referendum. That's how democracy works.


edit on 29America/Chicagov00am630300 by deviant300 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 09:59 AM
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Scotland never wanted to leave the Eu it was just tired of England, knowing the history is that surprising? What makes me laugh is Mariano really shows up as a spokesman for an elite group. I sniff a few stinky rats in the Eu, the ones that hide behind walls and get others doing their dirty work. a reply to: gortex



posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 09:59 AM
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The Spanish PM is only against Scotland entering into talks with the EU for one reason.

Basically Spain has the same problem as the UK in that it has regions that are seeking their independence in Catalonia and Basque have been politically manoeuvring for their independence from Spain. Scottish independence is bad for Spain as it gives legitimacy to Spain disenfranchised regions to fight for independence. In fact during the Scottish independence referendum Spain showed lots of interest purely because of the impact it could have on them.

I think after watching the SNP MEP Alyn Smith speaking in the EU parliament the other day and getting a standing ovation its pretty obvious that Europe would be interested in speaking with Scotland. Actually just earlier on the news i was watching a senior EU figure saying that they would be very open to talking to Scotland because they view Scotland as a member nation of the EU and they cannot ignore that it is the will of the Scottish people to remain in the EU and that as such they have a responsibility to try to protect Scottish membership.

For the whole of the UK Scotland voting to remain is a huge problem, essentially what we have is a EU nation being dragged out against its will by another nation. Its really quite messy. This was a vote for the sovereign state of the United Kingdom to remain or leave the UK, the problem is that one of its member nations who have already made it clear that there is a sizeable proportion of their population who want to be independent voted in while everyone else voted out. And as such like i said its created a situation where we have one nation's right to self determination being violated by another

So yeah..... Scotland and probably most of the EU does not care about what Spain have to say.
edit on 29-6-2016 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 10:00 AM
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Sturgeon "we're stronger together"*





*unless it's the UK.

Schadenfreude.



posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 10:02 AM
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originally posted by: deviant300
Correction,

Scotland is a country which makes up part of the Union (United Kingdom) like England, Wales and N. Ireland. Since the vote was UK wide, the vote was for the UK as a whole to leave to EU. This wasn't a vote for solely for England to leave nor Wales or N. Ireland this was a vote for all. Scotland needs to understand that.

If Scotland wants to join the EU then Scotland must become a independent country and they must call for a second referendum. That's how democracy works.



This is pretty much Scotland at the moment:



posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 10:04 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin




So yeah..... Scotland and probably most of the EU does not care about what Spain have to say.

Spain can and will veto Scotland's application so they do care what Spain has to say , also as pointed out by crazyewok they are not the only country with similar concerns.



posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 10:09 AM
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originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin




So yeah..... Scotland and probably most of the EU does not care about what Spain have to say.

Spain can and will veto Scotland's application so they do care what Spain has to say , also as pointed out by crazyewok they are not the only country with similar concerns.


They might but that remains to be seen and given that Scotland is technically part of the EU right now anyway that does not really matter.

I think what could happen is in the next two years Scotland will have indy-reff two on a we will keep our status quo with Europe and when the UK leaves Europe they will also leave Scotland and we will stay in Europe with some kind of pathway that will say we will have to adopt the Euro in 5 years time or something like that.

In that situation Spains veto means nothing as Scotland is already part of the EU and meets the requirements of EU membership, I also think that other EU States will put pressure on Spain to shut up.



posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 10:12 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: deviant300
Correction,

Scotland is a country which makes up part of the Union (United Kingdom) like England, Wales and N. Ireland. Since the vote was UK wide, the vote was for the UK as a whole to leave to EU. This wasn't a vote for solely for England to leave nor Wales or N. Ireland this was a vote for all. Scotland needs to understand that.

If Scotland wants to join the EU then Scotland must become a independent country and they must call for a second referendum. That's how democracy works.



This is pretty much Scotland at the moment:


I think that is unfair.

You have to remember that more than 60% of Scotland voted to remain in Europe now in the view of the Scottish voter we are being dragged out of Europe against our democratic will as a nation because we are part of a State that half of us want to leave.

Lots of people (myself included) who voted to remain in the UK are now wanting to leave the UK, lots of minds have changed since the first referendum on independence.



posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin
No its not unfair.

Its Democracy get over it.

Scotland had a referendum and it voted stay.

UK hate a referendum and it voted leave.

The votes in and the decisions done so everyone should stop crying and bitching over it!

whole way a vote works is one sides going to lose and your side lost. Get over it!
edit on 29-6-2016 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 10:16 AM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

The United Kingdom is part of the EU so Scotland is only a member while it is part of the UK.

Spain's veto would stop them joining.

To give due form to the accession, this treaty is signed and ratified byall the Member States and the candidate country in accordance with their own constitutional rules.
ec.europa.eu...



posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 10:20 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin
No its not unfair.

Its Democracy get over it.

Scotland had a referendum and it voted stay.

UK hate a referendum and it voted leave.

The votes in and the decisions done so everyone should stop crying and bitching over it!

whole way a vote works is one sides going to lose and your side lost. Get over it!


No it is unfair.

how would you feel if it went the other way???

Scotland as a nation is being dragged out against its democratic will of the EU, the UN Charter states that all nations have the right to self determination. This vote has shown that it is the will of the Scottish people to remain as part of the EU, it is the will of the nation to remain. Our democratic will is being violated by another nation and as such our right to self determination as a state is being crapped all over.

This vote shows that there is a serious divide over how those north and south of the boarder feel the direction of the state should take and as such Scotland has a very strong argument that would support indy-reff 2 so that our right to self determination as a nation can be respected.



posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 10:24 AM
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originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

The United Kingdom is part of the EU so Scotland is only a member while it is part of the UK.

Spain's veto would stop them joining.

To give due form to the accession, this treaty is signed and ratified byall the Member States and the candidate country in accordance with their own constitutional rules.
ec.europa.eu...


That remains to be seen.

The EU could potentially take the view that because the nation of Scotland is already a member nation as it is part of the state of the UK then a independent Scotland would therefore inherently be a member of the EU.

Right now however this is more of a internal political dispute in the UK I think, I think it shows that there is a real appetite in Scotland for a second independence referendum where Scotland remains part of the EU.

Additionally I do not think Spain would veto it, sure they might shout about it but ultimately given how much the Spanish economy is reliant on EU contributions then the power brokers in Brussels would bring them into line



posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 10:27 AM
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originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin
No its not unfair.

Its Democracy get over it.

Scotland had a referendum and it voted stay.

UK hate a referendum and it voted leave.

The votes in and the decisions done so everyone should stop crying and bitching over it!

whole way a vote works is one sides going to lose and your side lost. Get over it!


You sound like an ignorant & petulant child.

Nothing worse than a poor winner, I voted leave by the way, I just thought I'd let you know your massive generalisation and childish retort is pathetic.



posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 10:30 AM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
No it is unfair.



originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
how would you feel if it went the other way???

Annoyed but that democracy for you. I would have to suck it up and move on.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Scotland as a nation is being dragged out against its democratic will of the EU, the UN Charter states that all nations have the right to self determination. This vote has shown that it is the will of the Scottish people to remain as part of the EU, it is the will of the nation to remain.

What about wales and England? Our democratic rights needs violating then so Scotland can stay?

It was a union wide vote.
Not a England or wales only vote.

Scotland had its say and the leave campaign should of made a better case.



originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Our democratic will is being violated by another nation and as such our right to self determination as a state is being crapped all over.

But its ok to crap over the right of England and Wales right to self determination?



originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
This vote shows that there is a serious divide over how those north and south of the boarder feel the direction of the state should take and as such Scotland has a very strong argument that would support indy-reff 2 so that our right to self determination as a nation can be respected.



You had you say in 2014.

And you voted to remain with all that it entails.

And it was a clear possibility that there was going to be a EU referendum in 2014.
You KNEW the risks and stayed.


We cant keep going backwards and forwards with referendum!

Suck it up and move on!



posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 10:31 AM
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originally posted by: Hazardous1408

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin
No its not unfair.

Its Democracy get over it.

Scotland had a referendum and it voted stay.

UK hate a referendum and it voted leave.

The votes in and the decisions done so everyone should stop crying and bitching over it!

whole way a vote works is one sides going to lose and your side lost. Get over it!


You sound like an ignorant & petulant child.

Nothing worse than a poor winner, I voted leave by the way, I just thought I'd let you know your massive generalisation and childish retort is pathetic.

What have I generalized?

That IS how a vote works. One side wins and one side losses.

So we are meant to disregard the English and Welsh votes and stay because Scotland wants to stay?
edit on 29-6-2016 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



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