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Revelation 17...???

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posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 12:21 AM
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a reply to: bobs_uruncle

That's a really cold way to address my legitimate concern for your world view. I don't think you're deluded at all. I simply think it's a very depressing way to look at life. My beliefs are mine and yours are yours, not one can say the other is right. It's all subjective. That doesn't mean I don't feel for you or you beliefs just because they don't coalesce with mine.




posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 12:37 AM
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a reply to: Joecroft

ISAIAH 14:26 MAKES CLEAR that the WHOLE EARTH is involved in the END TIMES festivities.

That whole chapter has interesting details of the prophetic aspects of the END TIMES that Revelation is also all about.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 02:33 AM
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originally posted by: Joecroft
But can you just answer the question…instead of constantly deflecting the issue…

Why is it Gods will that they the Kings (only) if you prefer, (although I still contend that Kings ultimately drag the nations and people along with them) are to give their Kingdom to the Beast…?

I did offer a response to that question, when I first brought in the "kings" point. You did not notice it, because you were still insistent on changing "they" into "we".

As for God putting things into their hearts, this is the same kind of issue as God "hardening the heart of Pharaoh".
I think this is making the point that even the conscious enemies of God can do no more than he allows them to.



Joecroft
When we know from the complete context, that the Beast is using the Harlot to deceive the Nations, the People, and the Kings…they are all tied together…they are all one mind as verse 13 puts it…

But this generalisation does not include the "saints". Revelation makes that clear. That is why the Harlot is "drunk with the blood of the saints""; that is, she colludes in the persecution of the saints described in ch13. That is the whole point of this book, the reaction of the Beast and the Harlot to the fact that the saints reject them, and the reaction of God to the reaction of the Beast and the Harlot.
If you choose, you may identify with the persecuting Beast and Harlot, take their side against God, and call them "we".
I choose to identify with the saints and join with them in defying your hostility. As far as I am concerned, your band of persecutors is not "we". You are only "they".



edit on 30-6-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 04:14 AM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

You're confused, this here will help. I wish you well.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 04:16 AM
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a reply to: windword

No, it says all that will happen in a prophetic period of 490 years for the Jews, Daniel's people.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 08:16 AM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

I don't care about the time line you believe it predicts. I care about your assertion that Daniel 9 says that the Messiah will "atone for the iniquities of the people". It doesn't. It says that the people must: finish transgression, to put an end to sin, .. atone for wickedness, not the messiah.

Daniel doesn't prophecy about Jesus, his birth, his life, his crucifixion, supposedly as a sacrificial lamb to atone to the sins of the people, or his miraculous resurrection, or his spectacular second coming some 2000 years later. It just doesn't.






edit on 30-6-2016 by windword because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 10:02 AM
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a reply to: windword

Utterly false. Jesus curses Israel with spiritual blindness because the failed to know "the day of thy visitstion" (Luke 19:44), when this very prophecy right here told them the exact day He would ride into the city as the Moshiyach Nagid. (Messiah the King)

Daniel 9 is one of the most astounding prophecies in the entire Bible.


edit on 30-6-2016 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 10:36 AM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical


Pfft. It says what it says:

Seventy 'sevens' (weeks) are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

It doesn't say anything about a messiah needed to take on the inquiry of the people, dying for their sins. Here, this link might clear up your confusion on the matter.

Daniel 9 – A True Biblical Interpretation



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 10:56 AM
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a reply to: windword

That website says "Jews for Judaism", why in the Hell would I be interested in the interpretations of people Jesus cursed with spiritual blindness? If I hold the hand of a blind man he will lead me into a ditch. Come on, wake up, you're trying to fall into the same pitfalls the Pharisees were up to their necks in 2000 years ago.
edit on 30-6-2016 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 11:06 AM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

Uh, because it's THEIR book, their prophecies, their religion and their messiah.

Christian translation and math on this issue just doesn't add up or make any sense.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 11:17 AM
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Wasn't the first century Christians also Jews, and teaching Jesus as the Messiah from the Septuagint OT? No? Were the apostles and the 120 in the upper room Jews or Greeks? This whole thing started with enlightened Jews. Jews today are so lost they elevate the BabylonIan Talmud above the Tenakh. They're clueless and dont even practice Judaism since the Temple was destroyed.
edit on 30-6-2016 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 01:36 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

That is a big problem when looking at scriptures .Somehow we think that todays Judaism is closely related to the OT and NT Israelite / Hebrew . They are not even using the same book let alone being on another page . Its when we try and mix the 2 Christianity and Judaism we run into the wall . 2nd temple literature has a strong relationship to Christian thought of the 1st century . What Judaism is today is nothing more the the Pharisee's thought that crucified their Messiah .

Micheal Hoffman has put out the best look at this unusual religion of Judaism of today

edit on 30-6-2016 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

Correct, Judaism was changed and their scriptures altered in 90 AD at the Council of Jamnia. They had 2 huge problems, Christians were using the LXX to convert Jews and the temple was destroyed, they couldn't atone for sin any more. It became works-based and Talmudic rather than sacrificially based and Mosaic.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 03:15 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical

On the topic of the whore that rides the beast .We know that the cry goes out that Babylon has fallen has fallen and immediately it takes up a economic nature of cry's of the merchants .The woman that rides the beast is a city but it has a unusual connection to a economic / religious thread . Modern day Judaism fits that bill historically because it was on the return to Jerusalem to re-build that we see the oral traditions culminating in Jesus's day .Which made the law of God of none effect .Thats why they missed it and why the readers of the Septuagint seen it .

Glad to see you back on ATS :>) ...Have you found Micheal Heisers work on the unseen realm ? You might like to check out one of our younger brother Teckies keeping up with the IT of of our times ..

edit on 30-6-2016 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 03:33 PM
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a reply to: NOTurTypical



Wasn't the first century Christians also Jews, and teaching Jesus as the Messiah from the Septuagint OT?


Uh, no. First century Christian were hardly a united front, and no, they didn't unitedly teach that Jesus was a dying and resurrected god/messiah, that died as a sacrifice for the sins of the world, and would return to finish fulfilling the prophecies.

His resurrection was not widely accepted among early Christians. Early Christians fought for centuries over whether or not the "Christ" even actually became flesh and blood.

They didn't even call themselves Christians during that era, because there were already pagan cults claiming "Christs", call themselves disciples of Christ. Christs weren't exclusive to Judaism. Serapis cults, as well as the Eleusinian Mystery School had Christian followers that predate the advent of Jesus the Nazarene.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 03:42 PM
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a reply to: windword

Most of what you say comes from the Gnostic writings 100ce and later . The earliest writers were eye witness to Jesus's death burial and resurrection . There is always the idea of first the truth and then the lies follow . You cant create a lie before the truth .....just saying ...either you have sinned and became a sinner or you have never sinned ...??



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 03:54 PM
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a reply to: windword

That's not at all what the book of Acts records for the early church, or what early church fathers like Irenaeus, Clement or Polycarp wrote. Have you ever read the early church writings? Hell, the apostle John was writing toward the end of the 1st century about Jesus, his epistles and gospel account was the last NT book written.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 03:58 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

I'm amazed the same Gnostic heresies Paul, Peter, John, and Jude addressed in the 1st century we are still dealing with today, some 2000 years later. That's what the entire book of Colossians is about.
edit on 30-6-2016 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 04:17 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1


The earliest writers were eye witness to Jesus's death burial and resurrection .


None of the gospels were written by eye witnesses, neither were the book of Luke, The Acts or any of Paul'e epistles.



posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 04:22 PM
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a reply to: Joecroft

Its very simple to see who the whore is. Compare what is stated will happen to the woman in Rev 12 to the tribulation period spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 24. You will see that Israel is the woman spoken of in Revelation 17. It says that those in Israel, referred to as Judea in Matthew and the Woman in Revelation 12 will end up fleeing into the wilderness, into the mountains to avoid Satans wrath after he gets drop kicked out of heaven by the angel Michael.

This woman is also that which gave birth to the child we know as Jesus who is to rule as king on earth, which we also know is Israel, the birth place of Jesus. Israel, the woman, ends up being the whore that rides on the back of the beast of many waters, or nations and tongues because it is Israel that will be the central power of the world government that the anti-christ, the beast, will rule over from his throne which Paul, Daniel and Jesus himself made clear will be built for him. This is not rocket science, and God is not the author of confusion. All you have to do is compare scripture with scripture, let it speak for itself and let all men be liars to come to a logical conclusion like any normal person with a properly functioning brain.

edit on 30-6-2016 by Dcopymope because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-6-2016 by Dcopymope because: (no reason given)




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