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originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: whereislogic
In Revelation 22:16 the Alpha and Omega says "I am Jesus.."
...what does the Alpha and Omega says in chapter 1 verse 18 of Revelation?
...At Revelation 22:13, the Alpha and Omega is also said to be “the first and the last,” which expression is applied to Jesus at Revelation 1:17, 18. Similarly, the expression “apostle” is applied both to Jesus Christ and to certain ones of his followers. But that does not prove that they are the same person or are of equal rank, does it? (Heb. 3:1) So the evidence points to the conclusion that the title “Alpha and Omega” applies to Almighty God, the Father, not to the Son.
“And he laid his right hand upon me and said: ‘Do not be fearful. I am the First and the Last, and the living one.’ ”( Revelation 1:17b, 18a) In Isaiah 44:6, Jehovah rightly describes his own position as the one and only almighty God, saying: “I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God.” * [* = In the original Hebrew at Isaiah 44:6, there is no definite article with the words “first” and “last,” whereas in Jesus’ description of himself in the original Greek at Revelation 1:17, the definite article is found. So, grammatically, Revelation 1:17 indicates a title, whereas Isaiah 44:6 describes Jehovah’s Godship.] When Jesus presents himself by the title “the First and the Last,” he is not claiming equality with Jehovah, the Grand Creator. He is using a title properly bestowed on him by God. In Isaiah, Jehovah was making a statement about His unique position as the true God. He is God eternal, and besides him there is indeed no God. (1 Timothy 1:17) In Revelation, Jesus is talking about his bestowed title, calling attention to his unique resurrection.
Jesus was indeed “the First” human to be resurrected to immortal spirit life. (Colossians 1:18) Moreover, he is “the Last” to be so resurrected by Jehovah personally. Thus, he becomes “the living one . . . living forever and ever.” He enjoys immortality. In this, he is like his immortal Father, who is called “the living God.” (Revelation 7:2; Psalm 42:2) For all others of humanity, Jesus himself is “the resurrection and the life.” (John 11:25) In harmony with this, he says to John: “I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.” ( Revelation 1:18b) Jehovah has given him the authority to resurrect the dead. That is why Jesus can say that he has the keys to unlock the gates for those bound by death and Hades (gravedom).—Compare Matthew 16:18.
1:8, 17—To whom do the titles “the Alpha and the Omega” and “the First and the Last” refer? The title “the Alpha and the Omega” applies to Jehovah, stressing that there was no almighty God before him and that there will be none after him. He is “the beginning and the end.” (Rev. 21:6; 22:13) Although Jehovah is referred to as “the first and the last” at Revelation 22:13, in that there is none before or after him, the context in the first chapter of Revelation shows that the title “the First and the Last” there applies to Jesus Christ. He was the first human to be resurrected to immortal spirit life and the last one to be so resurrected by Jehovah personally.—Col. 1:18.
originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: whereislogic
Why in Revelation 22 does the Alpha and Omega voice say "I, Jesus.."
and why in Revelation 1:18 does He say "who died and lives again", you need to tell me when Jehovah God died. When was it?
The Alpha and Omega doesn't say that. Hency a why question assumes that he did. How are these types of questions called again?
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: NOTurTypical
So I have to just ignore all the clues from verse 8, 9 and 10 as to who is speaking in verse 9-15 compared to verse 16? Or verse 17 for that matter (where "the spirit and the bride keep on saying...")?
Sorry, I can't do that like you, I don't need to fit in my theology. Perhaps you could tell me who is speaking in verse 9? Verse 17? Still the same one speaking and giving the message even though the text says otherwise? John is describing who is saying what (in verse 9, 10, 16, 17, 18 and 20).
The RSV, NRSV, NASB, NEB, REB, NKJV, and NAB (1991 ed.) show (by quotation marks and indenting) that Rev. 22:14 and 15 are not the words of the speaker of verses 12 and 13 but are John's words. (The Jerusalem Bible and the NJB show us that the angel spoke all the words from verse 10 through verse 15.)
Then they all show Jesus as a new speaker beginning to speak in verse 16.
So, if you must insist that the person speaking just before verse 16 is the same person who is speaking in verse 16, then, according to the trinitarian NEB, RSV, NKJV, and NASB Bibles, you are saying John is Jesus!!! (According to the JB and NJB you would be insisting that the angel is Jesus!)
Remember, "I, John" indicated a new speaker in Revelation.
So Rev. 22:16 - "I, Jesus" also introduces a new speaker. This means, of course, that the previous statement ("I am the Alpha and Omega") was made by someone else!
Even the KJV (and NKJV) translators have shown by their use of the word 'his' ('His' in the NKJV) in verse 14 that they didn't mean that Jesus was the same speaker as the Alpha and Omega. ...The comment in verse 14 of these Bibles (as literally translated from the Received Text) explains the importance of doing "His Commandments" (not "My Commandments")! ...
So we can easily see that there is no reason to say Jesus spoke the words recorded at Rev. 22:13 (or the above-named trinitarian Bibles would surely have so translated it!)...
Let's see you take a stab at answering these questions:
*** Rev 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega..."
*** Rev 1:9 "I John, your brother and partner with you in oppression..."
Are you going to tell me that the "I John...." is John claiming to be the Alpha and Omega?
What about this?
*** Rev 22:13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega..."
*** Rev 22:16 "I Jesus...."
How is this different from Rev 1:9?