Pitbulls kills 3 day old baby

originally posted by: reldra

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
Yet another Hit and run post by the OP to stir up controversy, nice MO

As to the post, up until the last few years, I have EXCLUSIVELY owned only pitbulls, from pup to grave, and I have never ever ever had an aggressive dog to either children, other people, or other animals.

There arent bad dogs, just bad owners.

Again, like I said that is anecdotal. You and Quantum and visitedbythem have probably had fantastic pitbulls. I have also posted the stats and caselaw.

I'll never get this point across enough as a Vet. It's not the dog's it's the bad people who get them based off the reputation. You put a Putbull into a nice family and it's a great dog. The problem is the stigma around Pitbulls overwhelmingly leads to a certain type wanting the dog and raising it wrong.

Having been around dogs all my life from the farm to living in the city, I believe it's exceptionally foolish to trust them around the defenseless. As kids, we were never left alone with the farm dogs. They were either assisting the adults, or in their fenced yard. The indoor dogs were never left alone with us. They did not even sleep in the same room as a human, period, with the exception of leader dogs being trained if we had any assigned to our family at the time. My parents were huge into that. My dad was FIRM on those rules -- dogs are unpredictable no matter the training due to strong instinctual traits & breeding to strengthen said traits, and the only ones allowed around us 24/7 were the leader dogs in training. But us kids were still NEVER allowed to be alone with the dogs, in training or otherwise.

As an adult, hubby & I did get rid of our Boston. One nip at the new baby was all we needed to know. Sorry bud, it was good while it lasted, you came with major training accomplishments as an adult adoption, but your instincts are still there. No amount training in the world can prevent an instinct-triggered mauling. Ever. Best you can do is remove the potential threat in your home, and hope nothing happens outside it with someone else's dog.
Keeping that in mind, I'm very much in favor of tight restrictions for ownership of naturally aggressive breeds. If it was bred for aggressiveness, defense, war, bred for killing it's prey, it's not for children or the compromised. I know, I know, this translates to a lot of dog breeds, but the point remains. You cannot change the long-term nature of the beast just because you think you're the magic owner who can. It took thousands of years to breed those traits to the forefront of a breed to get what we humans wanted. It's going to take many more to breed them out. Not one owner.

Threads like this never cease to amaze me. Pitbulls are dangerous, evil, violent dogs = Fact. Pitbulls are sweet, loving dogs, and can be violent just like any other dog = Opinion/Conjecture/Pro-pitbull propaganda.

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: Irishhaf


Your post is anecdotal. I have posted caselaw(scroll back), the courts agree that a dog owner of average intelligence can identify a pitbull.

Again, the dog in this OP is apparently mixed with Shar Pei. But, in fact looks exactly like a pit bull. It has the characteristics and strength of a pit bull and not a Shar Pei.

I don't like zero tolerance laws either. If a municipality simply bans pit bulls for any person, that is ridiculous.

The breed does cause the most fatalities in humans. (previously posted) I am not sure of the solution. Possibly a special license and proof of extra training. I am against the license costing more than any other dog license, though, that would just be a money grab.

In your case, if no one knows and the dog has caused no problems, just call it a chocolate lab or a lab mix or a dobie mix... and have it on the license.

Thats what is done he is officially listed as a chocolate lab mix...

But my point was Vets cant tell, folks employed to stop the breed from entering the country cant tell.. but the average lay person can?

That case law is flawed... if professionals cant tell with 100% certainty how can a police officer, animal control officer... average joe on the street?

Pitbulls = evil?
No.

Only the stories involving pitbulls, rottweilers, german shepherds, and other "aggressive" breeds ever seem to reach people.

Labradors! One of the most "family friendliest" breeds available! Have killed/mauled/attacked infants and children. Where are the "BAN LABRADORS!!!!!" people?

I'm personally not a fan of pitbulls, they're not "my" type of dog. I would rather a border collie or german shepherd, personally. But the fact remains that ALL dogs can attack, ALL dogs can kill, ALL dogs can become violent and aggressive.

a reply to: CB328

Mis-use of guns, knives, vehicles, boats, and other things lead to deaths as well. The idea of banning a dog breed is extremely, extremely stupid. Why aren't people who are for bans more aggressively pushing for enhanced sentencing for dog fighting and animal abuse? You know - things which would ACTUALLY HAVE AN EFFECT? Banning Pit Bulls would mean that the ONLY pit bulls in existence would be those trained to be aggressive.

How absolutely ridiculous.

Mom grew up on the farm in the 30s. She said the shotgun was to protect the chickens from foxes and Gypsies. And the dogs were to protect the children from being kidnapped by Gypsies. They both did their jobs well

a reply to: visitedbythem

My Pittbull Penny. I walked into my sons room a few months ago and this is what I saw.Penny loves children and loves to cuddle! Lol

a reply to: Quantum12 She is a beautiful dog.

a reply to: Quantum12 Here are Bruno and Baby (after I removed the carpet, ( someone pee peed on it) new tiles going in soon

a reply to: visitedbythem

They are beautiful. Penny says Bark and wants to play.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: reldra

And I can find statistics that show that they're NOT aggressive normally.

According to the American Temperament Test Society (2010-2011), 804 American Pit Bull Terriers were tested and 695 passed. This means that 86.4% of Pit Bulls tested by the ATTS had a good temperament. Pit Bulls pass rating was above 121 other breeds of dogs, including Golden Retrievers!

einhorninsurance.com...

But somehow, they're all aggressive killing machines.

ALL dogs are aggressive normally....and they all would like to kill if they could, it is natural instinct....why tell us they are not natural born killers and that ALL forms of training are just instinct suppression ?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
Screw it, just go on hating Pitbulls until we just destroy them all. Which breed are you going to go after next?

Well, having been attacked and chased by Dobermans, Rotties, German Shepherds and Pitbulls, I would say that all of these are amongst the SCARIEST experiences any child or even adult can ever experience.

Tell us a good reason other than pure fear and panic we need these around ??

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
Yet another Hit and run post by the OP to stir up controversy, nice MO

As to the post, up until the last few years, I have EXCLUSIVELY owned only pitbulls, from pup to grave, and I have never ever ever had an aggressive dog to either children, other people, or other animals.

There arent bad dogs, just bad owners.

You are likely one of those guys who say dogs don't bite, but I bet your dogs HAVE bitten many things, including you.

The denial is similar to a religious experience across the board.

Why is it you need to have animals around that you must train and watch like hawks to ensure they do not damage others ?

Zaphod and others, I applaud your efforts in the thread. I'm sure the following comments will go mostly ignored but wanted to point that out.

DogsBite.org is a pro BSL site. The site org., which the founder was attacked by a Pittbull, blames lobbyest and anti BSL for not having Pittbulls banned. Just because specific courts ruled the breed being "...recognized by its physical appearance by a dog owner of ordinary intelligence." in specific cases doesn't make it a universal truth. Nor does the ""pit bulls inherently dangerous" court ruling, also shared by the site.

That site org., really? Those in the vet field, etc, are not paid to not support BSL by lobbyist, etc. The site is a bias organization in support of BSL measures.

About the founder Colleen Lynn resides in Austin, Texas and operates Lynn Media Group. On June 17th, 2007, she was attacked for approximately 5-seconds by a leashed pit bull while jogging in her former Seattle neighborhood. She was hospitalized for two days at Harborview Medical Center after undergoing surgery to repair a severe bone fracture. Four months later, she launched DogsBite.org. Learn more about Colleen Lynn by reading her four-year anniversary blog post about her attack.

Dogbite.org

The cause for Pro BSL/Pittbull ban helps aid her company. Not to dismiss her case at all, very sad one, but is it not bias on her part to use a bad experience as part of a cause.
Lynn Media group

Lynn Media Group is a web design and technology company dedicated to helping entrepreneurs, small businesses and cause related groups build powerful awareness and solution-focused websites.

Source
They fought Righthaven LLC, who is known as copywrite trolls, at least.

The fact is, even in shelters and elsewhere many dogs are misidentified. Many shelters say Labrador mix as well as Pittbull, (and it's not to knock any helpful people) but many volunteers are young and or not very experienced in breed classification. Often times, for intent of placing the animals, the label "Lab Mix" is thrown onto many dogs who may in fact not even be Lab mixes, sometimes they are Pitt mixes.

originally posted by: Nyiah
Having been around dogs all my life from the farm to living in the city, I believe it's exceptionally foolish to trust them around the defenseless. As kids, we were never left alone with the farm dogs. They were either assisting the adults, or in their fenced yard. The indoor dogs were never left alone with us. They did not even sleep in the same room as a human, period, with the exception of leader dogs being trained if we had any assigned to our family at the time. My parents were huge into that. My dad was FIRM on those rules -- dogs are unpredictable no matter the training due to strong instinctual traits & breeding to strengthen said traits, and the only ones allowed around us 24/7 were the leader dogs in training. But us kids were still NEVER allowed to be alone with the dogs, in training or otherwise.

As an adult, hubby & I did get rid of our Boston. One nip at the new baby was all we needed to know. Sorry bud, it was good while it lasted, you came with major training accomplishments as an adult adoption, but your instincts are still there. No amount training in the world can prevent an instinct-triggered mauling. Ever. Best you can do is remove the potential threat in your home, and hope nothing happens outside it with someone else's dog.
Keeping that in mind, I'm very much in favor of tight restrictions for ownership of naturally aggressive breeds. If it was bred for aggressiveness, defense, war, bred for killing it's prey, it's not for children or the compromised. I know, I know, this translates to a lot of dog breeds, but the point remains. You cannot change the long-term nature of the beast just because you think you're the magic owner who can. It took thousands of years to breed those traits to the forefront of a breed to get what we humans wanted. It's going to take many more to breed them out. Not one owner.

It's hard to argue with anything you've said.

In fact, your case is made even stronger by the fact that the primary reason people own dogs these days is for companionship, but most dogs were not specifically bred to be exclusively companion animals. The result is dogs who were bred for a purpose, but whose instincts are neglected, so we end up with poor behavior as the animals attempt to find an outlet.

People who cannot utilize a dog's breeding probably shouldn't own that dog.

sweetest dog i know is a pit bull, they reflect the owner

Any dog can bite. I have three kids and while I trusted the dog I had when my kids were younger, we never let the kids in a room alone with it. We have always had Norwegian Elkhounds. They are great dogs, generally don't bite and are fiercely protective of their owners.

Having said that, my current dog, who is 12 and had never ever been aggressive did the following. He will run if he escapes the yard. Someone doing maintenance at our house let him escape. I ran him down as he was running toward a busy street. As I reached down to grab his collar he showed teeth, I didn't really think much of it since I was concerned for his safety and he had never bitten me. Well, he clamped down on my hand and delivered a very nasty bite wound on my hand. My wife who caught up and had the leash couldn't believe it. We brought him home, he acted like nothing happened. That was 3 months ago, and no other incidents. But, it still pisses me off my dog bit me. Had it been a smaller child, it would have really been a serious bite.

a reply to: ParasuvO

DUDE!
You need a better JOB.