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Does order stem from Chaos, or does chaos stem from Order?

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posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 07:59 AM
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The topic of conspiracy theories has been a widely debated one and, contrary to common belief, is not a modern phenomenon. They have just become more mainstream and popular thanks to the ease of which we can access information. There have always been critical thinkers in existence; those who have questioned the official narrative of the source of the news they were receiving.

My own views are along the lines of: “not everything that happens is a conspiracy, but a great deal of significant events throughout history have very likely involved actual conspiracies.” I think this is a reasonable and logical position. My position is the result of rational thought, empirically verifiable facts, developing my critical thinking skills and doing research. I did not wake up one day and decide that I will believe in the existence of conspiracies; the actions I have taken in life have led me to believe in their existence.

While there are sub-views of each (my above views, for example), for the nature of the thread I will divide the topic of conspiracy theories into two major arguments:

Argument 1: Conspiracies exist. Ranging from the most basic to the most complex. People are just unaware of the magnitude of the conspiracy and how it actually affects their lives. There is a certain structure that connects seemingly unrelated events.

Argument 2: Conspiracies do NOT exist. Everything that appears to be more than a coincidence is due to cognitive bias or paranoia. There is nobody in charge, everything is actually the result of random chance.

Upholding extreme positions are dangerous at either end. It is astronomically unlikely that the bee that just stung you was part of a convoluted conspiracy to inject you with a slow-releasing life-threatening serum orchestrated by the government in an effort to have your existence erased. It is also astronomically likely that the person who sold you that home loan is set to gain personally from your signature, despite their revelation that people like you are why they find their job so satisfying.

Like everything else in life, the key seems to be about balance. However, considering what's at stake, I truly believe you are better off upholding views that lean more toward conspiracies being a reality than leaning towards the other end. Why? Because of three chief reasons: your quest to understand truth; your preference to remain physically/mentally healthy; and your desire to survive.

Which argument, or subset of either, do you support and why?




posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 08:22 AM
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a reply to: Dark Ghost


My own views are along the lines of: “not everything that happens is a conspiracy, but a great deal of significant events throughout history have very likely involved actual conspiracies.” I think this is a reasonable and logical position. My position is the result of rational thought, empirically verifiable facts, developing my critical thinking skills and doing research. I did not wake up one day and decide that I will believe in the existence of conspiracies; the actions I have taken in life have led me to believe in their existence.

Think about it though, chained to a rock in Platos cave we can't see the truth from our position. Discussing this logically is impossible while we are still both in our Matrix bath tubs.

The analogy being that first we have to wake up, go outside, see the real, kind of thing. Once you understand that everything is a construct prepared for you, then you can begin to see the truth of things.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 08:52 AM
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originally posted by: Dark Ghost
The topic of conspiracy theories has been a widely debated one and, contrary to common belief, is not a modern phenomenon. They have just become more mainstream and popular thanks to the ease of which we can access information. There have always been critical thinkers in existence; those who have questioned the official narrative of the source of the news they were receiving.

My own views are along the lines of: “not everything that happens is a conspiracy, but a great deal of significant events throughout history have very likely involved actual conspiracies.” I think this is a reasonable and logical position. My position is the result of rational thought, empirically verifiable facts, developing my critical thinking skills and doing research. I did not wake up one day and decide that I will believe in the existence of conspiracies; the actions I have taken in life have led me to believe in their existence.

While there are sub-views of each (my above views, for example), for the nature of the thread I will divide the topic of conspiracy theories into two major arguments:

Argument 1: Conspiracies exist. Ranging from the most basic to the most complex. People are just unaware of the magnitude of the conspiracy and how it actually affects their lives. There is a certain structure that connects seemingly unrelated events.

Argument 2: Conspiracies do NOT exist. Everything that appears to be more than a coincidence is due to cognitive bias or paranoia. There is nobody in charge, everything is actually the result of random chance.

Upholding extreme positions are dangerous at either end. It is astronomically unlikely that the bee that just stung you was part of a convoluted conspiracy to inject you with a slow-releasing life-threatening serum orchestrated by the government in an effort to have your existence erased. It is also astronomically likely that the person who sold you that home loan is set to gain personally from your signature, despite their revelation that people like you are why they find their job so satisfying.

Like everything else in life, the key seems to be about balance. However, considering what's at stake, I truly believe you are better off upholding views that lean more toward conspiracies being a reality than leaning towards the other end. Why? Because of three chief reasons: your quest to understand truth; your preference to remain physically/mentally healthy; and your desire to survive.

Which argument, or subset of either, do you support and why?


It's all Crap, sorry.. Nothing in this place has substance it's illusive.

Cheers.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 09:46 AM
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a reply to: awareness10
But isn't that the point, to try to ponder what is vague and elusive?



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 10:43 AM
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originally posted by: MaxTamesSiva
a reply to: awareness10
But isn't that the point, to try to ponder what is vague and elusive?


A good rule of thumb, first discard everything you've been taught by someone else.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 10:51 AM
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originally posted by: MaxTamesSiva
a reply to: awareness10
But isn't that the point, to try to ponder what is vague and elusive?



No not really. I no longer ponder anything here.Pondering on that which isn't real is like pondering on a rock and why it exists.

There is no point to this place.

Cheers.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 10:59 AM
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How do you get from the title of order and chaos stuff to the body of the thread being to conspiracy or not to conspiracy?
I don't get it . You did not mention either order or chaos in the thread at all. You might as well have asked the chicken or the egg. I need a little more order in my chaos to even grab onto.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 11:34 AM
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In the matter on Order or Chaos I absolutely think that Chaos is the highest form of Order.

When ever you try to change the chaos there is a bias. The own self interest. Just to force the chaos of things, the natural order, to derail to get a personal advantage on the cost of others.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: Dark Ghost

Order becomes chaos, until chaos exhaust itself and becomes order again.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 09:26 PM
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Argument 1: Conspiracies exist. Ranging from the most basic to the most complex.


It is human nature to conspire.

For example: Small children up to no good. "Don't tell mom!"

On the question of Does order stem from chaos, or chaos stem from order?, it logically follows that in the first instance order sprang from chaos.

From chaos comes order and order returns to chaos.

(Cheeky grin) In this way we can account for God's existance. It also follows that God is mortal for eventually even God returns to chaos.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 09:53 PM
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There can be no chaos in order. Chaos is random and constantly changing forms, one of which will eventually be order, at which time random chaos ceases to exist.

As for conspiracy, of course it exists. However, there is a huge conspiracy to convince people it doesn't. The more people who don't believe in conspiracy, the more proof you have that the plan is working...



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 10:36 PM
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Of course, conspiracies exist.

We know they do and have. What else was the Tuskegee experiment if not a conspiracy?

The thing with any conspiracy is how ultimately plausible you deem it to be (assuming it has not been revealed as truth or fake).



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 10:40 PM
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If Chaos goes unchecked for long enough order will always spring up. If Order grows stale chaos will crack it.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 10:59 PM
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You guys all make it too complicated. It's a lot more simple.

Order is the absence of chaos. And chaos is the absence of order.

Where there is chaos there is darkness and everything vile.

Where there is order there light, and all that is just and right.

Order was built into and is intrinsic to the universe. And justice is demanded. And justice will always prevail.

Even evil man in his distress searches for justice in a world of evil and chaos. And they try to perpetuate order into the chaos, and execute justice the best they know how.

When he who is justice and righteousness comes to put all things into judgement. Then order and justice will be given, and the chaos will melt away and order will prevail. And light will shine forevermore. And the darkness and chaos will melt away into the annuals of histories long past, ever smoldering as a reminder to future generations of the stupidity of man stumbling in the darkness, lost in the gloom, in his pride and hatred, turning his face away from Him who loves, and is righteousness and justice.

This is truth. And it will come to pass.

Chaos does not foment order, nor does order cause division. Rather it causes peace and harmony, and stems from love.

Where the absence of love is, there is disorder and chaos. Where there is love, there resides the spirit of God, and it unifies, cleans, brightens, teaches, illuminates, and brings all things together in harmony.



posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 12:22 AM
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a reply to: PeterHawkes

Could not the universe (order) have sprung from Chaos?
edit on 29-6-2016 by Whatsthisthen because: spilling mastakes




posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 02:05 AM
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originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
How do you get from the title of order and chaos stuff to the body of the thread being to conspiracy or not to conspiracy?
I don't get it . You did not mention either order or chaos in the thread at all. You might as well have asked the chicken or the egg. I need a little more order in my chaos to even grab onto.


The title is in reference to the idea of whether or not there exists an Elite group (E.g: TPTB, Illuminati, shadow government "the 1%" etc.) of people in this world. If there is such a group, which all conspiracies ultimately stem from, how did they come to upholding such power and influence (order)? If there is no such group, is everything that happens in this world just the result of an unstructured random occurrence (chaos)?

The title implies that this thread is not just based on conspiratorial themes, but philosophical ones too. Whether you want to explore the conspiratorial or philosophical side is the reader's choice. I endeavoured to incorporate both aspects in my opening post. If read carefully, you will see that I did manage to include both.

edit on 29/6/2016 by Dark Ghost because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 29 2016 @ 02:32 AM
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a reply to: Dark Ghost
Then I shall read it all again. Not now but in a day or so. Thankyou for the fine reply Ghost.




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