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Moderates in the West...yes it's about Islam

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posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 12:30 PM
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Like most liberals here..you also seem to have a reading comprehension. There was no intention for it to be derailed...at least not by me. But I said it was bound to get derailed...because...the subject matter. But you're new...so I wont hold it against you.




posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Moderate Muslims are the solution, not the problem. Without a reformation, no amount of bombing, "bringing freedom", or criticism will help. It could take hundreds of years, but it is really the only solution.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 12:43 PM
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originally posted by: awareness10
a reply to: dukeofjive696969

You live in Western Canada, they don't have the same problems they do in the US.

But you must be aware of it on 'some' level right?


In 2013, two radicalized Islamists tried to blow up nail-filled pressure cooker bombs at the British Columbia parliament building during Canada day (Canadian equivalent of July 4th) festivities, which would have surely maimed and killed many had the Mounties not stepped in.


edit on 28-6-2016 by TheTory because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 12:50 PM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

I don’t think “derailed” is the right word. You brought up Islam, you said you’re racist and you have, whether rightfully or wrongly is irrelevant, been challenged.

Now getting back to the video, as it probably is kinda derailing things by talking about religious garb, the woman was totally opening herself to caution from the police due to what could have been deemed as credible threats (although I personally believe she was just screwing around if anything, which still amounts to a breach of the peace). But I would doubt that the vast majority of Muslims want to bomb anybody at all let alone America.

I said in my first post that she had a point, and she did. She basically said that “our God is your God is our God... is God” and I’m afraid to say that it is not Islam which is having a problem understanding this. In fact, I’d be inclined to assume that most of those who cannot grasp this concept do not even believe in God at all, that they are not religious... more likely they despise religion and use Islam as a scapegoat for denouncing religion as a whole, and also as an excuse for war. For some it might be purely about race. I suppose that makes it difficult for such people to criticise Judaism since a) Jews are not a race a b) most Jews are inherently white. A lot of people are also seemingly unable to point out the serious failings of Christianity, Buddhism and whatever problems other religions might have.

edit on 1TuesdayTuesdayAmerica/Chicago12pmTuesday2pm06 by IllegalName because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 12:50 PM
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originally posted by: dukeofjive696969

originally posted by: awareness10

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969

originally posted by: awareness10
a reply to: dukeofjive696969

You live in Western Canada, they don't have the same problems they do in the US.

But you must be aware of it on 'some' level right?


Do you say anything new once in a while, another rinse and repeat thread, poor you guys must be horrible living this way.

Yes i am canadian and it seems also that yes i know more than you do, but hey tell me oh great expert cough cough, what did faux news tell you.

Rinse and repeat bud rinse and repeat


lol... thanks for the laugh, seriously thankyou.

Oh and BTW you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about


Do tell, how is it you feel you know more than i do? Because you're Canadian?

Oh and about that rinse repeat, i've no idea what you mean but perhaps it's part of your subliminal programming?

btw i'm still laughing at your post.


Well for fact being canadian makes me better educated than you, so thats a pretty good start, i usually use facts not emotional response words and i dont play the victim so thats a head start.

Using absolutes is probably another good way of understanding one side of the story, saying that all insert magic word are this way and at that way is false.

Thats 2 pretty easy way to prove i am right, then theres your parroting faux news lies.

I could go on and on but this is where you go in victim mode.

Just do it, put on your big boy pants and say it out loud your a bigot and you love it.


After that rant, you actually have the audacity to call someone else a bigot?
Speechless.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 12:53 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope




It could take hundreds of years, but it is really the only solution.


You mean like when the Pope tries to reform Catholicism by saying "Christians should ask for gay people's forgiveness" ? do you think this will ever get done ? The gay stigma has been here since the beginning of humanity...this is one reform that will not go through I tell ya.

Who is going to initiate a reform within Islam, when some of the highest Islamic authorities are infact quietly supporting ISIS and such groups ?

The reform surely can not come from outside...but has to come from within Islam in order to stand a chance of success. And which Muslim country, or institution will lead the way ? who is going to tell them not to take the Quran seriously...or rewrite it ?

While the idea is cool...I dont see it happening.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 01:03 PM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Gay marriage is increasingly becoming acceptable on the Christian end even in Evangelical churches. There is hope.

As for Islam, it could take hundreds of years, but I think once freedom of speech catches on, and the marketplace of ideas grows beyond the censorship of Islamist jurists, overtime, more and more will grow accepting of different perspectives and lifestyles. Yes, it likely will not happen to any high degree in our lifetime, but the ease through which information is accessed nowadays can only make this process inevitable.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 01:06 PM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Come on, Islamic State have been propped up by belligerents in all quarters simply because too many state actors have a disturbing agenda to divide and conquer the Middle and Near East.

As for the Vatican, they are equally if not more incapable of reform than the next religious authority. And yes, their stance on homosexuality pretty much clarifies this. I don’t think any religion explicitly condones it so for the Vatican to expressly assert that it is not a sin is most likely unprecedented in the history of Christianity. Nobody should be killing gays, most certainly not, but at the same time it should not be openly condoned either. Not that I personally have much regard for the “authority” of the Vatican but that’s for another discussion entirely.

At least now we are indeed talking about problems which are not apparently exclusive to Islam.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 01:13 PM
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a reply to: IllegalName




Now getting back to the video, as it probably is kinda derailing things by talking about religious garb, the woman was totally opening herself to caution from the police due to what could have been deemed as credible threats (although I personally believe she was just screwing around if anything, which still amounts to a breach of the peace). But I would doubt that the vast majority of Muslims want to bomb anybody at all let alone America. I said in my first post that she had a point, and she did. She basically said that “our God is your God is our God... is God” and I’m afraid to say that it is not Islam which is having a problem understanding this.


I dont mean to be rude man...but what on earth are you talking about. I'm talking about a woman in vid 1. here are my problems:

1. First she accused the cop for pulling her over just because she had burka.
2. then she accused him of racism and that he will pay for that.
3. then she proceeded to sue him with racial charges.
4. THe cop produced his vehicle video which crushed her entire case and got her sentenced in jail for bringing false charges
5. Then through a lawyer, she tried to get away with it by claiming since her identity could not been determined (due to her wearing a burka and refused to take it off), therefore her presence at the scene of the case could not be verified.
6. She appears to be a moderate.

So, based on her religious rights...she refused to identify herself to a police officer who stopped for a driving violation.

As far as I'm concerned...this is lunacy. And it's got nothing to do with women...but everything to do with religious practices that are out of touch with the western world and simply can not work.

Vid 2 problems:

1. America gave these people homes...took them in.
2. THey dont have respect for the American laws.
3. THey think Saudi is better
4. They think Somali is better
5. They think there should be a law against religious blasphemy...I'm guessing harsh ones.
6. They understand motivations for the terrorists actions
7. All people on this vid appear to be moderates

So...let's discuss these, shall we....

edit:

forgot to add 8 for vid 2.

That kid is what...10, 11 ? The calmness with which he praises Sharia and cutting off people's hands...is...horrible. He will probably grow up to be an outstanding young man




edit on 28-6-2016 by MarioOnTheFly because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 01:16 PM
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These liberals like to forget that Islam is not the first Abrahamic religion to have it's violent periods and eventually go through reform

The difference is that Islam hasn't gone through reform yet. Of course, it's different from the other Abrahamic religions as it called for perpetual war against non-Muslims, but that doesn't mean it can't reform. So yes, it is a problem with the religion.

Sorry liberals. I hope you figure this out before your head is on the Islamic State's chopping block (pro-tip: being nice to them doesn't stop them from fulfilling their God given duties as they see them. You're just as much of an enemy as the rest of us non-Muslims)



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 01:16 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope


Gay marriage is increasingly becoming acceptable on the Christian end even in Evangelical churches. There is hope.

Got a link for the bold part? I'm not challenging you, I'm being serious. I'd like to read it. I usually keep loose track of that kind of thing. This is news to me.
edit on 6/28/2016 by Klassified because: rebold



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 01:22 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope




As for Islam, it could take hundreds of years, but I think once freedom of speech catches on, and the marketplace of ideas grows beyond the censorship of Islamist jurists, overtime, more and more will grow accepting of different perspectives and lifestyles. Yes, it likely will not happen to any high degree in our lifetime, but the ease through which information is accessed nowadays can only make this process inevitable.


Again...I ask you...where do you see this reform starting. Who do you see as willing...but inside Islam ?



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 01:23 PM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

OH crap, sorry... I suddenly got really confused with another topic.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yes, she’s just a bit nuts and was seemingly throwing the victim card.

In any case, I think some of the points I made are relevant here.

As to your points, though...

So far as I’m concerned, core and genuine religion (I emphasise that because some of it is pure dogma designed only to control us) is above the law. For God’s Word is greater than that which comes from the mouth of the meek.

Blasphemy... that is in God’s hands. Yes, it is dreadful to denounce God, the true Word or the Prophets, but if any punishment is due then it is for God alone to deal with.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: Klassified

Link



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 01:37 PM
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originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: LesMisanthrope




As for Islam, it could take hundreds of years, but I think once freedom of speech catches on, and the marketplace of ideas grows beyond the censorship of Islamist jurists, overtime, more and more will grow accepting of different perspectives and lifestyles. Yes, it likely will not happen to any high degree in our lifetime, but the ease through which information is accessed nowadays can only make this process inevitable.


Again...I ask you...where do you see this reform starting. Who do you see as willing...but inside Islam ?


I see it starting in Former Muslims, extremists and dissidents, such as Maajid Nawaz, Mariam Namazie and other brave writers whom are attempting reform through debate and dissent. They might not be Islamic, per se, but their voices are becoming more and more prevalent within Islamic communities.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 01:39 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Moderate Muslims are the solution, not the problem. Without a reformation, no amount of bombing, "bringing freedom", or criticism will help. It could take hundreds of years, but it is really the only solution.


Thankfully I think in a way it is already happening but the moderates are fewer than I would wish.

From my point of view the problem in Islam is that it is set on the idea that the scripture is perfect so when the Muslim change it, we have to act as if it has not been changed since it is a form of apostasy.

Here is an example.

This is a beautiful idea that follow the golden rule.

This is the original that Muhammad used as an excuse to kill Jews.



Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.

Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,



And you can have non dualists who reject us vs them dogma like Rumi that are Sufi Mystic. All power to whose who follow the golden rule.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 01:41 PM
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a reply to: IllegalName




So far as I’m concerned, core and genuine religion (I emphasise that because some of it is pure dogma designed only to control us) is above the law. For God’s Word is greater than that which comes from the mouth of the meek.


see...this bolded part...is exactly why we just cant live together. At least not to our satisfaction.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 01:44 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope




posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope




I see it starting in Former Muslims, extremists and dissidents, such as Maajid Nawaz, Mariam Namazie and other brave writers whom are attempting reform through debate and dissent. They might not be Islamic, per se, but their voices are becoming more and more prevalent within Islamic communities.


As far as I know...they are considered apostates...and could probably get killed by the reformees (it's a word).
I like Maajid Nawaz...smart man. Very eloquent.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 01:53 PM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

You are using those videos to show that Islam is incapable of meshing with the west right? Do you know how many muslims we have living in America?




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