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Moderates in the West...yes it's about Islam

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posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 06:49 AM
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Just to take a slight break from Brexit and Trump topics...and back to the cozy familiar ground of...Islamophobia.

To get that it of the way...I must state a slight disclaimer. I have realized, mostly by reading ATS, that I am a bigot and a racist for thinking that Islam is unfit for western society. I have therefore placed an appropriate label via my ATS profile pic.

So save yourselves some time and effort to tell me I'm racist and a bigot. I already know.

Now...there is an ongoing effort by the liberal side to convince me that moderate muslims are not the problem for the western culture. It's those extremists are the problem, which they surely are. So in light of that premise, I'm posting 2 links for a debate concerning this relationship...moderate muslims and the West.



Review all information provided here...without too much verbalizing...this is exactly the reason why this culture can not work with ours. The cop at the end says it beautifully..."that's our culture...you can look at me, I can look at you..that's how it works".

It is outrageous the level of manipulation this "woman" expressed, using the damned PC culture to get her own way and ruin this police officer. And if there wasnt a video...it would have worked.

And as a final nail...the argument in the end by her lawyer...that it wasnt her under the burka...since the identity couldnt be confirmed...due to obvious reasons.

----


Second video comes from somewhere closer to home to my American friends...a few moderates discussing America and it's laws. Thank god for free speech eh ?




So, anyone from Minneapolis here ? How does that make you feel ? If I lived somewhere near...I wouldnt take this lightly. These people do not appear to me as terrorists...but then again...how can anyone be sure.

I'm guessing that both videos will be branded by the liberal minded as "just some crazy people"...that they dont represent the majority of moderate muslims.

What I mostly mind about the "moderates"...like the people in the second video...how much are you willing to bet that these people wouldnt blink an eye about hiding and giving support to truly extreme Islamists ?

Based on what they said in the video...given the option to choose...would they report Islamic terrorists in their midst or would they hide them and help them ? Be honest...









edit on 28-6-2016 by MarioOnTheFly because: bad youtube link



+9 more 
posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 07:02 AM
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The idea of moderate muslims is sort of a paradox. The method is to invade, grow in numbers, then act. Except for the lone wolf jihadist who acts on his own knowing what the outcome will be and accepting it as a reward for his actions.

One muslim is moderate because it would be suicide to be anything else. An equal number of muslim/non-muslm are activists, radical or otherwise. When the numbers reach a saturation point, action occurs. They demand change, set up sharia law, influence elections, etc.

It could theoretically be argued that in reality there is no such thing as a moderate muslim, only an extremist who lacks the support to act on his/her beliefs.

The exception to that rule, and there always is one, would be the western people who convert to islam. I believe they are more likely to embrace the non-violent side of the religion as they have not be indoctrinated their entire lives to behave otherwise. Of course, there are exceptions to that also, in the western converts who become violent. If westerners can be coerced into violence after a relatively short time in the religion, you have to wonder how much influence the culture has on its own people over an entire lifetime. Is there any way to reason with that kind of manipulation?



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 07:07 AM
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originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
Just to take a slight break from Brexit and Trump topics...and back to the cozy familiar ground of...Islamophobia.

To get that it of the way...I must state a slight disclaimer. I have realized, mostly by reading ATS, that I am a bigot and a racist for thinking that Islam is unfit for western society. I have therefore placed an appropriate label via my ATS profile pic.

So save yourselves some time and effort to tell me I'm racist and a bigot. I already know.

Now...there is an ongoing effort by the liberal side to convince me that moderate muslims are not the problem for the western culture. It's those extremists are the problem, which they surely are. So in light of that premise, I'm posting 2 links for a debate concerning this relationship...moderate muslims and the West.



Review all information provided here...without too much verbalizing...this is exactly the reason why this culture can not work with ours. The cop at the end says it beautifully..."that's our culture...you can look at me, I can look at you..that's how it works".

It is outrageous the level of manipulation this "woman" expressed, using the damned PC culture to get her own way and ruin this police officer. And if there wasnt a video...it would have worked.

And as a final nail...the argument in the end by her lawyer...that it wasnt her under the burka...since the identity couldnt be confirmed...due to obvious reasons.

----


Second video comes from somewhere closer to home to my American friends...a few moderates discussing America and it's laws. Thank god for free speech eh ?




So, anyone from Minneapolis here ? How does that make you feel ? If I lived somewhere near...I wouldnt take this lightly. These people do not appear to me as terrorists...but then again...how can anyone be sure.

I'm guessing that both videos will be branded by the liberal minded as "just some crazy people"...that they dont represent the majority of moderate muslims.

What I mostly mind about the "moderates"...like the people in the second video...how much are you willing to bet that these people wouldnt blink an eye about hiding and giving support to truly extreme Islamists ?

Based on what they said in the video...given the option to choose...would they report Islamic terrorists in their midst or would they hide them and help them ? Be honest...



I remember seeing the first Video you posted a few mths ago and i think those of us with Instincts can honestly say yes, the PC crowd are in for a rude awaking should things continue as they are.

May i add this also, i'd never seen this one until now but thought i'd share here.



I'm sorry the quality isn't top notch but, i feel it's important as it involves Islamization of their own People. This has gone on for a very long time, I cannot see it going on much longer within Civilized Nations as are being pushed by UN minority run standards.

Islam is a Cult, and it like any Cult seems to hold a magical spell over those involved within it, like a snake charmer would. People do as their told in a Cult. Fear and Loathing of other Cultures and Peoples can only result in certain disaster. The outcome will never come to anything good, for anyone.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 07:13 AM
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Just like a Christian and an Atheist can never see eye to eye, Islam and the West will never mesh. The rules are just too different and one side is more than willing to resort to extreme violence to get their way.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 07:42 AM
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What I saw in the first video was somebody whose head wasn’t entirely screwed on. Not necessarily because of religion, she just came across as a bit crazy anyway. While I sympathise with Muslims not removing their veil for religious reasons, using it as a means for perjury is utterly unacceptable. But like I said, it just seemed like she has a short temper if anything else and maybe wants some attention as well.

As for the second video, it smacks of selective editing. I doubt that speaking mostly to Somalians is going to provide for much of an overall test of how the average Muslim would answer those questions - the demographics should be more extensive. It’s probably a good idea to also ask those whom lean towards Shia or Shi’ite as well, not just Sunni. Having said that, it would probably go without saying that the people of Somalia would hardly be saying much of a bad word about Mohammed since it is a very important region with respect to the early days of Islam.

Anyway, what exactly is the point in this thread? I’ve never really understood why a self-admitted racist bigot would even have any concern for religion. Is the purpose to slander Islam or Somalia? Okay, one’s opinions on religion is exactly that I guess, a matter of opinion - but if you’re putting somebody down because they’re black then you’re surely most of the way to damned by now.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 07:47 AM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Have you actually met and got to know a Muslim person?



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 07:57 AM
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Worth the 14 minutes in my opinion. A few of Sam's points...

Religious moderation gives cover to extremists, and moderates have made it taboo to criticize their religion.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 07:59 AM
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a reply to: IllegalName




While I sympathise with Muslims not removing their veil for religious reasons, using it as a means for perjury is utterly unacceptable.


You do ? Well...what can I say...I dont. And that is why I'm racist




It’s probably a good idea to also ask those whom lean towards Shia or Shi’ite as well, not just Sunni.


so, we should do this in Iran then ?



Anyway, what exactly is the point in this thread? I’ve never really understood why a self-admitted racist bigot would even have any concern for religion.


The point is to present some of the "moderate" muslims living...in the west. Among us.




Is the purpose to slander Islam or Somalia?


strictly Islam bashing on my agenda.




but if you’re putting somebody down because they’re black then you’re surely most of the way to damned by now.


Even though I have come to understand my racism and bigotry...it appears it is limited strictly to Islamic issue. I like black people, asians, native americans, pigmey tribes in africa, eskimos and so on...

I just dont get...do I need professional help ?



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 08:02 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Have you actually met and got to know a Muslim person?


A few...some through persons I know...and a few through my family three. Well..this is for "met"...as for "got to know"...probably only this couple in my family three.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 08:05 AM
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a reply to: Klassified

Hi Klass...yep...Sam says it better then I can imagine it.

The problem in the end is...not just the cover for the extremism. As the old saying goes..."silence is considered approval".



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 08:19 AM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly
Clearly your interactions with Muslims are limited. Though there is nothing to be said. You've already admitted that you are illogically intolerant of them. You need to find your own light.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 08:34 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t




Clearly your interactions with Muslims are limited.


True. And that's the way I like it.




You've already admitted that you are illogically intolerant of them.


Illogically...well...that I guess depends on the perspective. From my corner...logic is sound.



You need to find your own light.


My light says I dont like certain things. Surely, someone as liberal as you should accept that under the guise of free speech.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 08:36 AM
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originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly


You do ? Well...what can I say...I dont. And that is why I'm racist

You’re racist because women wear a veil? Okay, there are three logical reasons for the veil: 1) Choice, plain and simple, 2) Because the husband told her that she may not display her beauty for other men to lust over, 3) Because she has fled a forced marriage and needs to cover her identity.

Either way I see this as the fault of men, so let’s give the women a break here. Not religion, but men.


so, we should do this in Iran then ?

Indeed, why not?


The point is to present some of the "moderate" muslims living...in the west. Among us.

You’ve probably done more to show us how many “moderate” racists are amongst us.


strictly Islam bashing on my agenda.

Then that isn’t racism, is it? Then again, since you only care to “bash” Islam then I conclude it is due to racism since there isn’t exactly much talk nowadays about how Israel murders Arab children on a regular basis or imprison them without trial, how Jews mutilate their own boy’s genitals, how they are easily the most intolerable religion on the face of the planet. But no, we’re not allowed to talk about that are we? And I’m not even bashing Jews, just telling it exactly how it is.


Even though I have come to understand my racism and bigotry...it appears it is limited strictly to Islamic issue. I like black people, asians, native americans, pigmey tribes in africa, eskimos and so on...

Let’s just get this straight... you’re the one who proclaimed to be racist. I guess there is sarcasm involved there, but I can never be too sure these days. Anyway, if you can only highlight the discrepancies within Islam without even remotely bothering to look into how virtually every religion has problems then, quite frankly, I think yes you are being racist.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 08:38 AM
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a reply to: MarioOnTheFly
Nope. As soon as you admit to being a racist or bigot that proves you are illogically intolerant. The core basis of the argument for being a bigot is a platform of illogic.


My light says I dont like certain things. Surely, someone as liberal as you should accept that under the guise of free speech.

Oh I accept that intolerant people can exist, and that's why I don't associate with them in my day-to-day interactions. I prefer people who don't hate others for stupid reasons. Though like I said, I hope you find your light. Unfortunately you are letting hate darken your worldview, and it doesn't look like I can be of assistance.
edit on 28-6-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 08:51 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: MarioOnTheFly
Clearly your interactions with Muslims are limited. Though there is nothing to be said. You've already admitted that you are illogically intolerant of them. You need to find your own light.

I've known several in my life, and also worked for them. I have about the same tolerance for Islam that I do Christianity, and don't think either is compatible with human civilization. That said, I have to give Christianity the nod for being a lot more malleable than Islam would ever dream of being.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 08:52 AM
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a reply to: IllegalName




You’re racist because women wear a veil?


Nope...I'm racist because I dont...


sympathise with Muslims not removing their veil for religious reasons






Either way I see this as the fault of men, so let’s give the women a break here. Not religion, but men.


If you've gotten the impression that his is about women...you are mistaken.




You’ve probably done more to show us how many “moderate” racists are amongst us.



hmmmm....moderate racist. I like it. I'm using that in my profile. thanks.




Then that isn’t racism, is it? hen again, since you only care to “bash” Islam then I conclude it is due to racism


which is it man...come on. My head is spinning.




how Israel murders Arab children on a regular basis or imprison them without trial, how Jews mutilate their own boy’s genitals, how they are easily the most intolerable religion on the face of the planet. But no, we’re not allowed to talk about that are we? And I’m not even bashing Jews, just telling it exactly how it is.


This is Islam bashing thread. Please take that info to a Jewish bashing thread...




Let’s just get this straight... you’re the one who proclaimed to be racist.


As I stated in my OP...others on ATS have proclaimed it...I have simply adopted the label. People tell me stuff...I listen.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 08:58 AM
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looks like .....

The PC Thought Police are out in Force This Morning.




edit on 6/28/2016 by awareness10 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 08:58 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t




Nope. As soon as you admit to being a racist or bigot that proves you are illogically intolerant. The core basis of the argument for being a bigot is a platform of illogic.


As I said...from my corner....your corner is of no concern to me.




Oh I accept that intolerant people can exist, and that's why I don't associate with them in my day-to-day interactions. I prefer people who don't hate others for stupid reasons. Though like I said, I hope you find your light. Unfortunately you are letting hate darken your worldview, and it doesn't look like I can be of assistance.


I think most liberals have a reading comprehension. Not liking stuff and hating it. I hope for your sake that you understand the difference.



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 09:06 AM
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originally posted by: Klassified

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: MarioOnTheFly
Clearly your interactions with Muslims are limited. Though there is nothing to be said. You've already admitted that you are illogically intolerant of them. You need to find your own light.

I've known several in my life, and also worked for them. I have about the same tolerance for Islam that I do Christianity, and don't think either is compatible with human civilization. That said, I have to give Christianity the nod for being a lot more malleable than Islam would ever dream of being.

Meh. They are the same thing same situation. If you give the nod to one, then you need to acknowledge the other. If you call out one for wrongdoing then you need to call out the other for its wrongdoing. The things one can do successfully the other can also do successfully.

After all both are just belief structures. Beliefs are just beliefs; it take a human to interpret them in a way that means something to the world at large. Islam can be destructive, but it can also inspire great good in people. Christianity can be destructive, but it can also inspire great good in people.

You of all people should know the problems I have with religion so I'm not speaking like I approve of the bad things Islam does or even the bad things moderate Muslims do. I can think of a list of things a mile long that I disapprove of what moderate Christians do. But at the end of the day, regardless of our beliefs, most humans are just trying to get through the day and live their lives. For the most part if we leave them alone, they'll leave us alone, but if their beliefs are truly detrimental us, then an open dialog with the moderates can help bring them around. Plus differences subside as generations pass. Who here still hates Irish people? Well at the turn of the last century it was all the rage to hate them. Mostly because they were Catholic and not Protestant.

Threads like this are depressing for me. They really show the terribleness of what humans can believe...

ETA: I work for a Muslim owned company and interact with many of them everyday.
edit on 28-6-2016 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 28 2016 @ 09:09 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t




I can think of a list of things a mile long that I disapprove of what moderate Christians do.


Watch it man. Disapproving is the same as hating. You might be labeled a bigot.



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