20years ago you laughed at me, you are not laughing now , Farage tells EU Parliament

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Which is more people than voted for Cameron and the Conservatives last time around. And it was more than half, otherwise there would have been no decision.

If we can elect a bloody government with a third, we can leave the EU with better than half.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

As with any referendum some will be for and some will be against , we accept the will of the majority , that's democracy.

Meanwhile, an online poll of 27,000 people for current affairs show EenVandaag showed 54% of the Dutch would like a referendum on EU membership and that 48% would vote in favour of leaving.

Some 45% would vote in favour of the Netherlands remaining in the EU. Read more at DutchNews.nl: Dutch PM rejects referendum calls: not in the Netherlands’ interest
www.dutchnews.nl...

Not all peoples of the EU get a chance to have their democratic opinion heard , that's not democracy.

a reply to: gortex

I think we need him there to ensure the career politicians don't try to fudge the issue and keep us in by the back door , he may be a necessary evil.

Exactly. We must remain vigilant. The elite schemers will try anything to scupper the public will, especially with the delayed initialisation of Article 50.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
Give it up Nigel, the whole of Europe is laughing at us now, even Iceland. You've had your moment based on a massive lie. Time you cleared off you lying toad

OO the bremainers are cross and nasty patronising know it alls who would stupidly vote to legitimise the euro bull he has exposed. We're well glad the bunch of stern bigots that want protest democracy itself wont get their dememted wishes.
Since he has said , 'by stealth' we need a witch-hunt for euro daleks like Sturgeon and this nasty little witch having a go like the other clever little turds who had their bullsh ignored for once. Traitors!

a reply to: ZIPMATT

Everybody is entitled to their opinion , only time will tell whether Brexit was a good idea or not.

originally posted by: lSkrewloosel
a reply to: woodwardjnr

when has a politican not given bogus figures. he jus tthe same as other politicans. As for Brexit. Europe aaint laughing at us, more like they will follow suit. no harm in having control over you own country again.

But that's the whole problem, if anybody thinks they will have their sovereign parliament back, they are just kidding themselves, because the same type of pipsqueaks will be running it, it was the same before, during, and will be after the EU.

In the meantime, any good that was done through the EU will slowly be eroded. Frankly, I don't give a shiite any more.

a reply to: gortex

Democracy?

A democracy can only survive it if does not hastily decide on important matters like these. People are like sheep: they are scared by loud noises and then all run to one side of the pasture. Give them some time and they will spread again. Therefore we have built-in delays in the systems we have to decide on things, especially if the consequences of our decisions can be grave.

Now, I believe that you have a parliament there, one that has been democratically chosen, one that ultimately should decide about this issue. They should not falter because of what Cameron said once - they should instead analyse the situation - listen to the ADVICE of the people - study how it was obtained - and then decide. Vote on it. That's what they are there for.

i believe that if they did that, they would detect that is a very unconvincing majority that is in favour of a Brexit (about 2 percent). Also, boths sides lied to the population. Add to all this that Scotland in it's entirety voted in favour of the EU, and Londoners too, and most of Northern-Ireland.. and given the shock, regret and sadness all of this caused - even in the Brexit camp - I believe that the proper and democratic decision would have been to vote on this which probably would have meant to stay in. And then, with these results, join other Euroskeptical parties / nations (like mine) and try to change the EU into a better system - without throwing out the child with the bathwater.

BTW: our parliament has discussed this and has overwhelmingly voted against a referendum for a Nexit. Including my own dear Socialist Party, whom probably will not sleep well for a few days on behalf of it. But even we, whom are very Euroskeptical, are not prepared to throw out the only vehicle we have that has worked to maintain peace and stability in our region.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Add to all this that Scotland in it's entirety voted in favour of the EU

Scotland voted 62% / 38% to remain , not its entirety.

It seems to me that the "sheep" are those who think we should just go with the flow , so what if the EU is an inefficient , corrupt and interfering bureaucracy it's what we're used to so why change.

The EU has big problems and sooner rather than later the cracks that already exist will widen and the EU will fall , if reports are to be believed France and Germany are already making plans should the worst happens.
There is a future outside the EU and if handled correctly it will prove safer than being inside the EU.

originally posted by: gortex
Scotland voted 62% / 38% to remain , not its entirety.

Agreed, but given that you feel that a majority of 2 percent of the UK population signifies a victory for the Brexit camp, likewise I feel that a 12 percent majority then most certainly signifies a victory for the Scottisch "remain" camp.

It seems to me that the "sheep" are those who think we should just go with the flow , so what if the EU is an inefficient , corrupt and interfering bureaucracy it's what we're used to so why change.

I'm not sure, actually, IFF the EU is overly inefficient, corrupt or bureaucratic. There is some political madness going on e.g. the fact that we have three "official" work-locations (Brussels, Strasbourg and Luxembourg) and that (at least up to a few years ago) we had a traveling circus between them, merely because the French insist(ed?) on retaining Strasbourg. Yes, there are reports of MEP's that really don't handle their responsibilities well, but given the sheer size of the Union, the EU bureaucracy is relatively small.

After all, we have (even after the Brexit) almost 500 million people in our nations, and the EU institutions employ just 55,000 persons (less than 0.05% of the EU population). This relatively small number of European civil servants carries out a wide range of work, managing the various internal policies of the EU and working alongside Member States on international issues such as trade and diplomacy. By way of comparison, the British Department for Work and Pensions alone employs over 91,000 personnel and the UK Government’s central civil service has over 400,000 employees. The total administration costs for the EU institutions amounted to just 6% of the EU’s budget in 2015. As with any organisation, there is scope to improve, and the EU institutions are actively working to do this. For example, the EU currently has 34 decentralized agencies (by comparison, the UK has over 350 non-governmental agencies and public bodies) and is working on making them more efficient by coordinating work, removing redundant functions, and sharing common resources and know-how. The European Commission has also pledged to simplify internal administration and remove unnecessary bureaucracy. As a result it has adopted a policy of benchmarking any proposed work or initiatives to ensure that they would result in a tangible benefit to EU citizens and companies. (Source: Lawyers In for Britain).

The EU has big problems and sooner rather than later the cracks that already exist will widen and the EU will fall , if reports are to be believed France and Germany are already making plans should the worst happens. There is a future outside the EU and if handled correctly it will prove safer than being inside the EU.

If you say so.

I don't think so - we've done a lot of experimenting in Europe and the only way is - in. Either that of we fall back to "nations", with "borders" that have to "fight for their interests" - we have had 2 world wars to prove that this actually does not take us anywhere.

It's totally understandable you are Euro-skeptical - I am too. But I would never vote to leave. Better to be all in the tent and piss out than have somebody outside piss in

a reply to: gortex

I saw this earlier- "None of you have worked a day in your life" Absolute classic. And true, of course.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
a reply to: gortex

Democracy?

A democracy can only survive it if does not hastily decide on important matters like these. People are like sheep: they are scared by loud noises and then all run to one side of the pasture. Give them some time and they will spread again. Therefore we have built-in delays in the systems we have to decide on things, especially if the consequences of our decisions can be grave.

Actually a democracy can only survive when the people's voice is the only defining, or deciding feature of its political landscape. Consideration paid to other things besides it, is what kills democracy, that and the silencing of the people by oppressive tactics, fear mongering, and division politics playing populations against themselves.

Now, I believe that you have a parliament there, one that has been democratically chosen, one that ultimately should decide about this issue. They should not falter because of what Cameron said once - they should instead analyse the situation - listen to the ADVICE of the people - study how it was obtained - and then decide. Vote on it. That's what they are there for.

As it happens, this parliament was not chosen by democratic vote. If our votes counted for anything during that election, then no parliament would have been chosen, and new candidates should have been bought forward for our consideration. Better leaders, more representative MPs from the backgrounds which would have made them one of us, not part of some lofty elite of under qualified, work averse, entitled morons with delusions of their own importance.

Furthermore, our representations to our MPs and our parliament are not advice. They are instructions, and they are to be followed. WE are the power in our nation, the people of it. We are not here to have our ideas sifted for their merits by people less qualified than we are, to know what the people need in order for their lives in this country to be better, for our infrastructure to work for us. No one knows better than we, the people do, least of all those who have never had a problem they could not solve with a fist full of cash. Our parliament are a singularly useless bunch who will all be replaced in short order if they seek to usurp our authority over them. They are our servants, not the other way around.

i believe that if they did that, they would detect that is a very unconvincing majority that is in favour of a Brexit (about 2 percent). Also, boths sides lied to the population. Add to all this that Scotland in it's entirety voted in favour of the EU, and Londoners too, and most of Northern-Ireland.. and given the shock, regret and sadness all of this caused - even in the Brexit camp - I believe that the proper and democratic decision would have been to vote on this which probably would have meant to stay in. And then, with these results, join other Euroskeptical parties / nations (like mine) and try to change the EU into a better system - without throwing out the child with the bathwater.

Again, if the Brexit vote is an unconvincing majority, what do you call just a third of people voting at all in a general election? Because I call that a vote of no confidence in the entire electoral system, and yet our parliament did not remodel itself over the low turn out! No, I am sorry, but if we can have a parliament elected by a third of our people, after an appalling voter turn out, then we can sure as hell leave Europe based on a two percent difference after a 72% turn out. What utter rubbish.

BTW: our parliament has discussed this and has overwhelmingly voted against a referendum for a Nexit. Including my own dear Socialist Party, whom probably will not sleep well for a few days on behalf of it. But even we, whom are very Euroskeptical, are not prepared to throw out the only vehicle we have that has worked to maintain peace and stability in our region.

Then that's your lookout sir. My people have spoken.

And as for London, I should point out that London contains all the city workers whose enormous and oversized pay checks RELY on schemes they have cooked up with EU partners to screw the rest of us out of our futures. It also contains a fair few individuals who were utterly clueless as to what the EU even IS!

We have had quite some time to get ready for this vote, to educate ourselves on the matters at hand, and our decision has been made. It's time to stop whinging about it, pull up our sleeves, and get on with the business of the day, that is getting our manufacturing going again, making the best use of our farmland, getting our agriculture working at full capacity and getting a better deal for the farmers from our retailers, than they were getting when we were in the EU. It's time to get the lads back out fishing again as well. We have work to do, and the less sodding about we do second guessing ourselves, the better things will be in the long run.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
Add to all this that Scotland in it's entirety voted in favour of the EU, and Londoners too, and most of Northern-Ireland..

62% voted remain in Scotland, 55% remain in Northern Ireland, and every region in England outside London voted leave in varying percentages from 51.8% to 59.3%.

Oh and Wales voted leave 52.5%, remember you going on about Wales before the vote that they would remain?
I shall just childishly say I told you they wouldn't lol.
It was a UK wide referendum, the leave vote won, why not accept it, do you not agree with democracy and the terms of the vote as it was agreed before the 23rd of June?

originally posted by: TrueBrit
Actually a democracy can only survive when the people's voice is the only defining, or deciding feature of its political landscape.

Indeed. But the problem is that the people never speak with one voice. Even now, half of "the people" are against the Brexit. What about their rights?

Consideration paid to other things besides it, is what kills democracy, that and the silencing of the people by oppressive tactics, fear mongering, and division politics playing populations against themselves.

Agreed. But ask a milkman what we should drink and his answer will be "milk". So, ask the ordinary Joe if he wants the UK to remain in or out - he will first say "out!" and only then ask "er.. out of what, actually?". Our population is ill-educated, assumes a lot, and is lied to constantly - no wonder they are such bad judges of our situation. But I bet that - present company excluded - most Brexit voters have NOT done any proper research, but instead voted with their bellies. And many simply disagree with government, period.

As it happens, this parliament was not chosen by democratic vote.

I am flabbergasted and quite happy to see the UK dictatorship leave then ... I did not know.

If our votes counted for anything during that election, then no parliament would have been chosen, and new candidates should have been bought forward for our consideration. Better leaders, more representative MPs from the backgrounds which would have made them one of us, not part of some lofty elite of under qualified, work averse, entitled morons with delusions of their own importance.

Well, if all others simply stay out of politics, you get to the point where you indeed only have work averse, entitled morons. I hope you have at least had the decency to join a political party, you seem like a reasonable man to me. But really, I was totally convinced that the UK was a democracy and that Cameron had been chosen by the people to be their PM...

But if not, then why do the Brexiteers take his word seriously as they do? Okay, he is the guy that said "we need a referendum" - at least you agree with him on that, now don't you.. but if he's just a moron, not fit for his post and not democratically chosen (as you imply), I would be very hesitant to follow his advice and jump out of the EU against the will of half the people - like he forces you to do. I'd call for new elections, if I were you -= oh, wait =- twill happen in october, right? Or.. do they simply appoint a new conservative?? Oh no..

Amazing, the British democracy. Almost as good as ours..

Anyway.

Furthermore, our representations to our MPs and our parliament are not advice. They are instructions, and they are to be followed. WE are the power in our nation, the people of it.

So you hope. But really, the referendum is not binding at all, it's really an ADVICE. Of course, if half of the people want out, you have a serious issue to consider, no doubt about it. But - it's an issue to consider, not binding.

Cameron decided to treat this as binding - given that you yourself say he really does not represent "the people", I'd be hesitant to blindly follow him here. Unless it suits you - it does, now does it not - in which case you can then join the ranks of those that don't listen to the people, but simply use them as an excuse to do as you like.

They are our servants, not the other way around.

You sure did not sound like it when you pointed out that Cameron only represents a meagre third of the population - yet you don't discuss the validness of HIS decision to accept this as binding..

Again, if the Brexit vote is an unconvincing majority, what do you call just a third of people voting at all in a general election?

A very unconvincing minority. Amazing that we, the people, allow them to be in charge.. but we do.

And as for London, I should point out that London contains all the city workers whose enormous and oversized pay checks RELY on schemes they have cooked up with EU partners to screw the rest of us out of our futures. It also contains a fair few individuals who were utterly clueless as to what the EU even IS!

Of course, but that's a constant throughout the nations, methinks, especially in the "out" camp.

We have had quite some time to get ready for this vote, to educate ourselves on the matters at hand, and our decision has been made.

Actually, half of the Brits that studied this, educated themselves - reached the opposite conclusion. Now, do you really want to imply that they did not study this..?

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

I'm not sure, actually, IFF the EU is overly inefficient, corrupt or bureaucratic. There is some political madness going on e.g. the fact that we have three "official" work-locations (Brussels, Strasbourg and Luxembourg) and that (at least up to a few years ago) we had a traveling circus between them, merely because the French insist(ed?) on retaining Strasbourg. Yes, there are reports of MEP's that really don't handle their responsibilities well, but given the sheer size of the Union, the EU bureaucracy is relatively small.

After all, we have (even after the Brexit) almost 500 million people in our nations, and the EU institutions employ just 55,000 persons (less than 0.05% of the EU population). This relatively small number of European civil servants carries out a wide range of work, managing the various internal policies of the EU and working alongside Member States on international issues such as trade and diplomacy. By way of comparison, the British Department for Work and Pensions alone employs over 91,000 personnel and the UK Government’s central civil service has over 400,000 employees. The total administration costs for the EU institutions amounted to just 6% of the EU’s budget in 2015. As with any organisation, there is scope to improve, and the EU institutions are actively working to do this. For example, the EU currently has 34 decentralized agencies (by comparison, the UK has over 350 non-governmental agencies and public bodies) and is working on making them more efficient by coordinating work, removing redundant functions, and sharing common resources and know-how. The European Commission has also pledged to simplify internal administration and remove unnecessary bureaucracy. As a result it has adopted a policy of benchmarking any proposed work or initiatives to ensure that they would result in a tangible benefit to EU citizens and companies. (Source: Lawyers In for Britain).

I don't think so - we've done a lot of experimenting in Europe and the only way is - in. Either that of we fall back to "nations", with "borders" that have to "fight for their interests" - we have had 2 world wars to prove that this actually does not take us anywhere.

It's totally understandable you are Euro-skeptical - I am too. But I would never vote to leave. Better to be all in the tent and piss out than have somebody outside piss in

I can agree that, For a start, if ever there was a bad time for a referendum it is the present, and it niggles me that two Bullingdon boys managed to do what they did best in their formative years...wrecking, while one had to resort to a referendum, which is not the greatest of ideas at any time....I mean they are supposed to be the great minds of politics, and they run the country for us...and get paid to do that...don't they? Well I suppose you could rule Boris out in that respect, he was hardly in the commons anyway, and now he 'wants' to be the next Prime Minister...well at least it seems that way, with the tory press bumming him up, (their idea of a joke?) though by my guess Boris, is in the throes of paroxysmal anal fibrillation at the idea.
The thing is, Harold Wilson realised in the 1960's that Britain could no longer go it alone any more. IMHO, he was/is right. Colonialism was knackered, the EEC was the ideal replacement in the face of advances of the rising sun, and the stirrings of the dragon...still today ongoing, and not easily cowed with silly talk.

originally posted by: smurfy
The thing is, Harold Wilson realised in the 1960's that Britain could no longer go it alone any more. IMHO, he was/is right. Colonialism was knackered, the EEC was the ideal replacement in the face of advances of the rising sun

Agreed, the EEC which the people voted for in a referendum, not political union.

Good one Nigel you have a new found friend for that speech



President Of The European Parliament: "It Is Not The EU Philosophy That The Crowd Can Decide Its Fate"

www.zerohedge.com...

If anyone needs another confirmation that the European Union is fundamentally the most anti-democratic entity currently in existence, then the following statement by European Parliament Martin Schultz should put all confusion to rest.

Schulz: "The British have violated the rules. It is not the EU philosophy that the crowd can decide its fate".


Now we just need someone to call them a bunch of Pedos live on air

Who on earth let this prize prick back into Brussels?

So he thinks it's funny to wind up the very people we now how to sort our future out with. Let's hope they are more mature than Farage and don't make things difficult for the negotiations.

Very clever.

CX.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

Well some of us certainly did not.

The most popular UK Google searches the day AFTER the vote, were things like "What is the EU?", and "what is a referendum?", not to mention patriotic queries like "how to move to Australia, or Ireland".

The thing of it is this. We have had all the time in the world, more than we had to decide on our last government in fact, to figure out where we sit on this issue. So much time have we had, in fact, that the fact that people STILL did not know what was going on, on the very day of the vote, means one crucial thing. There is no preparing some people for what comes next. If you asked me "Hey T.B., what do you think would happen if there was another vote next week?" I would tell you that I think that we would see the other 28% of voters, who likely did not believe their vote would count and so did not vote, coming out for an historic high turn out, with largely the same result or slightly more to the leave side than before, except with a higher degree of validity due to the nearly full turnout.

Why do I believe that? Because I know far more people who regret voting Remain, than I do people who regret voting Leave. Of the eleven or so Remain voters I know, only two did so because they believed it was the right thing to do. The rest did nearly no due diligence, and had not the slightest clue about the history of how we came to be in the EU in the first place, which was an act of treason by the Prime Minister of the time, because we only got a choice once we were already in. This technically made invalid and illegal, every signatory to a treaty with or in Europe, which we were party to since then. Our constitutional documents forbid this ever to happen, they state explicitly that before any foreign power or legislature can be exerted over the people of this country, we must first give permission for that to happen by way of a vote.

We never got one, not until we had already been in for a few years, back in the seventies. And do you know what? We were lied to by the EU about everything. Their intention to build an army, their intention to wind up with total Union and no independent governance, their intention to basically become a single nation under one flag and one law.

The people who do not know about that stuff without being told that stuff, who did not look it up and find out for themselves, had every chance, and they get bored and stop paying attention after a time when you try to explain it.

The reality is that the people I know who voted out all stand to lose some money out of it. All of us. But our liberty cannot be given away at any price. It is not a commodity for trading away, and we feel that we have better mastery of our affairs with only one dysfunctional bunch of lackwits to deal with, rather than dealing with our government, and then the EU which is some unaccountable money pit which edges closer to a well painted fascism every time I shut my eyes for five seconds.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

Rubbish, other countries aren't laughing, in fact they are more likely to follow our lead now.

Nigel Farage has been standing up in the EU Parliament against the Lisbon Treaty ever since Gordon Brown signed it in 2010 without giving us a referendum. Farage has fought long and hard, been jeered at by idiots and now we have had the referendum denied to us before. He deserves some respect.

originally posted by: TrueBrit


The reality is that the people I know who voted out all stand to lose some money out of it. All of us. But our liberty cannot be given away at any price.

Ah! But, Brexit gave away the most valuable liberty the Brits had, the freedom to live and work anywhere in the EU.

It is Liberty that is lost.

Of course, for those who never cared to live anywhere else, nor work anywhere else, like the older generation, it's a win for them.

But, the younger generation just lost their mobility.

Who cares about politics. Only one person can be King. Does it really matter if it's an English King or a German King, or a French King? It's still someone else sitting in that seat. One individual. The multitudes can't be King, can't be Prime Minister, can't be Chancellor. But, the multitudes can be workers of all sorts, who were able to move around freely to seek the best compensation for their labor in a vast market in Europe, now have to sit back and watch the other Europeans get whatever jobs they want, while the Brit sits home and frets, that the Computer Software Company in Germany that had an opening that just fit his qualifications, can't accept him anymore, because of all the visa hassle for immigrant outsiders. So, the jobs don't go to the best qualified, only to those who have the right to work in the zone.