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So whose bright idea was the 'Army Captures Flying Saucer' headline?

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posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 10:59 PM

originally posted by: A51Watcher

When you step back and look at skeptics claim of 'stick and foil built alien spacecraft' you realize that this claim is disingenuous because they are attempting to change the nature of what was found by twisting their words.

Mac Brazel:

a large area of bright wreckage made up on rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks.

Jesse Marcel:

Small beams about three-eighths or a half inch square.... Little members, small members, solid members that could not bend or break, but it didn't look like metal. It looked more like wood.
There were many bits of metallic foil.

Small sticks and foil is the description by both Brazel and Marcel and words aren't being twisted. If you go further with it, Brazel mentions rubber strips, tough paper, and eyelets also. Three more pieces that are 100% consistent with radar targets and balloons. There was nothing found that doesn't relate to the assembly pieces of targets.

It would have to be an astronomical coincidence that this alien spacecraft was constructed exactly as our radar targets that were being launched 80 miles away during this exact month and exact year.

posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 11:18 PM
a reply to: Ectoplasm8

And I could quote just as many interviews calling the 'sticks' more like plastic which was not prevalent in those days, but very light like balsa wood and the same color. But, you couldn't burn it and "you couldn't whittle it".

And yes the memory foil had a metallic appearance like that of tinfoil, but not the same properties.

Perhaps you didn't hear Gen Dubose -

"We didn’t know what the hell it was. Nobody knew."

Meaning nobody at that meeting knew what it was - including the top intelligence officer of our most secret atomic wing - Jessie Marcel.

So all that brass and officers at that meeting and NObody recognized it as ordinary sticks and foil?

Really? Yeah right.

Nobody familiar with all the descriptions given by those who got to examine the debris, sees them describing just common sticks and foil.

They were all adamant this was NOT common sticks and foil.

...or the I beams, or the metal plates.

They were just doing their best to describe it in terms of something we could relate to.

In video interviews they make it clear these materials differed greatly from familiar earthly materials.

Trying to mischaracterize their descriptions as something banal and ordinary is disingenuous.

Easy enough for anyone to see the interviews for themselves on the ytube and make a judgement.

edit on 1-7-2016 by A51Watcher because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 30 2016 @ 11:53 PM
Brig. Gen. Arthur E. Exon

In 1947 Exon was a Lt.-Colonel stationed at Wright Field at the time of the Roswell crash and heard of the incident at that time.

He said he never saw the actual Roswell crash material, but was told the result of testing by other personnel involved.

Likewise for the recovery and shipment of bodies.

However, Exon did emphasize that he was told these things by men who were directly involved and whom he knew well and trusted.

"...They knew they had something new in their hands.

The metal and material was unknown to anyone I talked to.

Whatever they found, I never heard what the results were.

A couple of guys thought it might be Russian, but the overall consensus was that the pieces were from space.

Everyone from the White House on down knew that what we had found was not of this world within 24 hours of our finding it. ...Roswell was the recovery of a craft from space."

"We heard the material was coming to Wright Field. [Testing was done in the various labs.]

Everything from chemical analysis, stress tests, compression tests, flexing.

It was brought into our material evaluation labs.

I don't know how it arrived, but the boys who tested it said it was very unusual."

"[Some of it] could be easily ripped or changed... There were other parts of it that were very thin but awfully strong and couldn't be dented with heavy hammers... It was flexible to a degree... Some of it was flimsy and was tougher than hell, and the other was almost like foil but strong. It had them pretty puzzled."

"...couldn't be easily ripped or changed could change it. You could wad it up, you could change the shape, but it was still there and ... there were other parts of it that were very thin but awfully strong and couldn't be dented with heavy hammers and stuff like that... which at the time were causing some people some concern... again, say it was a shape of some kind, you could grab this end and bend it, but it would come right back. It was flexible to a degree."

"I don't know, at that time, if it was titanium or some other metal... or if it was something they knew about and the processing was something different."

[Exon spontaneously bringing up Roswell crash after being asked about rumors of little bodies at Wright-Patterson] "Yes, I have. In fact, I know people that were involved in photographing some of the residue from the New Mexico affair near Roswell."

[Whether bodies were flown to Wright Field] "That's my information...people I have known were involved with that."

"There was another location where ... apparently the main body of the spacecraft was ... where they did say there were bodies ...

They were all found, apparently, outside the craft itself but were in fairly good condition. In other words, they weren't broken up a lot"

edit on 30-6-2016 by A51Watcher because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 1 2016 @ 10:37 PM
The description in the newspaper article also mentions rubber and SCOTCH TAPE.
Also it's similarity to a box kite.

It wouldn't burn? Burn with what, a lighter? A match? Were the UFO's stopping by to buy some scotch tape to mend their foil craft?
Who cares if one or several military dudes can't recognize a certain alloy? The only people who need be familiar with the material are the engineers on project Mogul.

posted on Jul, 1 2016 @ 11:16 PM
a reply to: A51Watcher

You're far too deeply wrapped up in the legend of Roswell and not the initial story. It's difficult to debate points with someone that buys into and believes everything that has been written about this incident 30+ after the case. I've already addressed this entire case ad nauseam in the past and I'm done repeating myself over and over.

What needs to be addressed is where the story begins- Mac Brazel. He finds the debris on June 14th and it means nothing to him until almost a month later on July 6th. The only confirmed statement we can use from Brazel is the newspaper article published. Below I've highlighted what Brazel describes with my comments below it.

...bright wreckage made up of rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks.

Every piece of debris mentioned above describes the construction pieces of a radar target.

Brazel said he didn't see it fall from the sky and did not see it before it was torn up

This claimed "indestructible" material was found torn up in pieces and scattered.

The balloon which held it up, if that's how it worked, must have been about 12 feet long

Radar targets were transported in flight with large balloons attached.

The rubber was smoky gray in color and scattered over an area about 200 yards in diameter.

When rubber balloon material is left out in the sun, it will degrade and turn smoky gray.

When the debris was gathered up the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks

Again, every piece found describes the construction materials used for radar targets.

...made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8 inches thick while the rubber made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long by 8 inches thick..

Radar targets were generally 3 feet in length measured corner to corner.

the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds

Exactly what you would expect of lightweight radar targets.

There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine and no propellers of any kind.

No foreign or odd pieces were found.

...although at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil

Paper fin, glued, and tinfoil would again describe construction methods and parts of a radar target.

There were no words to be found anywhere on the instrument, although there were letters on some of the parts.

Letters on the parts could be the designated target number. ML-307A, ML-307B, or ML-307C for example.

Considerable Scotch Tape and some tape with flowers printed upon it had been used in the construction

On the blueprints for radar target model ML-307C, there's a separate notation on the side that states cellophane tape is to be used to attach the foil to the beams. This is because the glue coating added on the balsa-wood beams for strength made it hard for foil backed paper to stick.
The flower printed tape was explained as the targets being constructed by toy manufactures. Floral printed cellophane tape was in use during the time.

No strings or wire was found but there were some eyelets in the paper to indicate that some sort of attachment may have been used

Radar targets had eyelets to string them together during flight. Sounds like a flimsy alien spacecraft using eyelets in paper for interstellar travel.

Brazel said that he found two weather observation balloons on the ranch. but that what he had found didn't resemble either of these.

As newspaper articles had reported during the time, weather balloons had landed on properties across the country. Every photo shows one intact weather target and a balloon. This is what Brazel had found previously on the ranch. What landed in this case were multiple targets, that had been updated to sustain longer and higher flights, and balloons designed at NYU. Leave the debris out in the desert for 10 days with storms as described during the time and you're going to find a "large area of bright wreckage made up of [smoky gray] rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks.... considerable Scotch Tape and paper with eyelets."

Here is an account in 1947 by 48 year old Brazel during the time of the alleged crash with fresh memories that undoubtedly describe crashed and torn up radar target(s) and balloon(s). Not a story that's being retold from memories 30, 40, 50 and more years after that incident by 70 and 80 year old men.
edit on 1-7-2016 by Ectoplasm8 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 1 2016 @ 11:44 PM
Sure, Brazel was 'Sorry he told about it' after he was held incommunicado for a week by the military, and thoroughly briefed on what he did not see, and what he was going to say after he was released.

Apparently he did a good job considering the brand new pickup he was seen driving right after that.

The phony weather balloon story was a plant, along with the weather balloon wreckage.

posted on Jul, 1 2016 @ 11:47 PM
a reply to: A51Watcher

To A51Watcher: what a load of crap! There was no crash of anything. The balloon train dragged a long distance and then settled down in fragments. No craft, no bodies, no #!

posted on Jul, 2 2016 @ 04:42 PM

originally posted by: klassless
a reply to: A51Watcher

To A51Watcher: what a load of crap!

Sorry kid no one is interested in the contents of your cranial cavity.

This forum is for members to debate evidentiary points of contention.

Get back to me when you figure out how that works.

posted on Jul, 2 2016 @ 04:50 PM

originally posted by: A51Watcher
The phony weather balloon story was a plant, along with the weather balloon wreckage.

You said in a post earlier that the debris was being described in terms we could relate to. Now you say Brazels story was planted. The believers of this circus have to create the planted story in order to divert away from the fact that Brazel obviously described radar target(s) and balloon(s) in the article.

If the story was planted, how do you account for Marcels interview 30 years later in 1978 describing small beams, foil, and a large debris field, which are the same things as Brazel described in 1947 in the newspaper article? If you believe most every thing written, how about all of the other witnesses describing the same debris as Brazel? Did every witness participate in a mass cover up going on 70 years now? If not, point me to the debris we can't connect to pieces that make up the construction of radar targets. I haven't found them yet.

originally posted by: A51Watcher
Apparently he did a good job considering the brand new pickup he was seen driving right after that.

A new pickup truck? Is there anything in the way of DMV title records (or whatever type of ownership verification used in 1947) of Brazel all of a sudden owning a 1947 or 1948 pickup during that week of 1947? Or is this more hearsay stories?

posted on Jul, 2 2016 @ 10:45 PM
a reply to: A51Watcher

Perhaps you didn't hear Gen Dubose -

"We didn’t know what the hell it was. Nobody knew."

That's quite an ambiguous statement. Nobody knew what it was exactly because it was a top secret project.

So all that brass and officers at that meeting and NObody recognized it as ordinary sticks and foil?

No. They didn't know how to put together the sticks and foil to make whatever it was. If you read the initial reports, its sticks and foil, sticks and foil and no aliens.

posted on Jul, 2 2016 @ 10:49 PM
a reply to: Ectoplasm8

I've already addressed this entire case ad nauseam in the past and I'm done repeating myself over and over.

In my case, I took up crochet to alleviate the nauseam.

posted on Jul, 2 2016 @ 11:49 PM
a reply to: ZetaRediculian


posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 04:50 PM
originally posted by: A51Watcher
The phony weather balloon story was a plant, along with the weather balloon wreckage.

You said in a post earlier that the debris was being described in terms we could relate to. Now you say Brazels story was planted. The believers of this circus have to create the planted story in order to divert away from the fact that Brazel obviously described radar target(s) and balloon(s) in the article.

Oh I'm sorry, the way you were speaking made it sound as if you were familiar with the Roswell evidence.

Are you aware that Brazel gave not one but two interviews before he was taken into custody by the military and the final coerced version?

Not only was his story different than the one he gave after being released, he was called on it, by the first interviewer.

Apparently not, or you feign not knowing, because it casts doubt on your attempts to legitimize the 'circus' of the laughable weather balloon story.

Either way here is the rest of the Mac Brazel events for your edification, that you are supposedly not aware of:

edit on 3-7-2016 by A51Watcher because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 04:51 PM

A follow-up article in the Roswell newspaper on July 9 is the only contemporary published record of what Brazel said ("Harassed Rancher Who Located 'Saucer' Sorry He Told About It").

It was based on an interview conducted in the offices of the Roswell Daily Record on the afternoon of July 8. The description of the debris he furnished sounds much like a small part of a Project Mogul balloon array, similar to that from weather balloons, which is the accepted skeptical explanation today for the event.

Though Project Mogul was indeed a top-secret project, the neoprene rubber balloons and paper-backed aluminum foil radar targets used in it were not.

In the article, Brazel describes a collection of "tinfoil", "tape," "sticks," and "rubber," which was so limited in size that it could be rolled up in a small bundle.

But then he said the debris took up an area about 200 yards in diameter, vastly greater than the remains a Mogul array would produce.

Apparently unnoticed and certainly unappreciated by reporters at the time were Brazel's final comments.

The article concluded by noting that Brazel had previously found weather balloons on the ranch on at least two occasions, and he firmly stated, "I am sure what I found was not any weather observation balloon."

Brazel concluded by venting obvious frustration, saying that with the possible exception of a bomb, he would never report another object found on the ranch.

The contradiction between his mundane description of the debris and his claim that this was not a weather balloon would reverberate almost endlessly when the Roswell controversy exploded into public consciousness.

In addition to the first-person interview with Brazel at the Roswell Daily Record, we know of three other interviews.

The first was done on the spur of the moment by Roswell radio station KGFL announcer Frank Joyce on Sunday, July 6.

Joyce made it a practice to call Chaves County Sheriff George Wilcox for news leads. It happened that Brazel was in Wilcox's office at the time, relating his discovery of strange debris. Wilcox put Brazel on the telephone, and Joyce proceeded to interview him.

The second instance was an interview conducted at the home of Walt Whitmore, the owner of KGFL.

posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 04:52 PM

This was probably done late on Monday, July 7. The interview was recorded on a wire recorder, which was the technology available at the time.

The interview was meant to be aired as a scoop, but was never played on the air. Unfortunately, the recording has been lost to us because it was confiscated by the Army on the afternoon of July 8 and never returned during their operation to kill the original disk-retrieval story and remove all contrary evidence.

The third and last interview was conducted by an El Paso radio station. We know only that it took place, and can only guess that Brazel repeated the story he gave the Roswell Daily Record.

Based on our investigations and reasonable deduction, it seems almost certain that only the Joyce and Whitmore interviews presented Brazel's story in honest, undistorted fashion.

At some point on July 7-8, Brazel was placed in military custody at the base.

His statements during this period are therefore suspect and may be the result of coercion.

Family members believe that Brazel was frightened or bought off by the military, and that his July 8 Roswell Daily Record interview, in particular, was, at least in the main outlines, dictated to him by the Army.

...there remain a number of family members who can fill us in on Mack's character and personality.

They tell us he was a throwback to the "old-time cowboys." Frank Joyce, the KGFL announcer, described him to researcher William Moore as dirt-in-the-pores-of-the-skin type of guy." Joyce continued, "He didn't say a whole lot," and "(he) was a man of few words," but "his word and hand-shake were bond."

Mack's son Bill was interviewed by various researchers, including Moore, Friedman, Randle, and Schmitt. Bill maintained that he was able to learn very little directly from his father about the Roswell events.

Moreover, Bill says that his father confided nothing about it to his mother. But Bill believes that Mack did pass on at least some fragments of the story to Bill's wife Shirley, but that she was never given all the facts.

...It has never been clear which details of Bill's recollections of his father's Roswell adventures came from discussions with Mack or from what Shirley told him.

Bill Jr. believes that his father ". . . took the most part of what he knew to the grave with him."

His father did tell him that he was upset and bitter at being "put in jail" for a week for simply doing what he thought was a "good deed."

All family members interviewed by Moore gave it as a truism that Mack had been sworn to secrecy for reasons patriotic, and that he took his oath very seriously because he was a man of his word.

Other relatives swear that the military threatened his family.

Another family story has it that Mack was particularly incensed at having endured a "head to foot" physical examination by the military before they would release him and allow him to return home.

According to his nearest neighbor, Floyd Proctor... Mack was in a state of excitement and very talkative about his discovery when he saw Proctor a day or two prior to his trip to Roswell and the sheriff's office.

According to Proctor, Mack "just wouldn't shut up about it." Proctor's wife Loretta said Mack was returning her 7-year-old son Dee, who had been visiting the Foster ranch that day. He had brought a small piece of the wreckage with him to show the Proctors, who encouraged him to report it to the authorities for the $3,000 reward offered for proof of "flying disks."

Proctor confirmed for Moore that Brazel had been kept in military custody for about a week, after which he would not talk about the event, preferring instead to change the subject or briefly repeat the balloon story if pressed.

Proctor also described being in Roswell with another neighbor, L. D. Sparks, during the period of Brazel's detention. Brazel was surrounded by about half a dozen military escorts as he walked down the street. He was behaving strangely, according to Proctor, and pretended that he did not recognize Proctor and Sparks when they passed.

A former ranch hand of Brazel's, Ernest Lueras recalled a time when he and Mack drove from Corona to Tularosa, a drive that on today's modern roads takes three hours to complete. The trip was made sometime after the 1947 events but before Mack left Corona for good to open his own business in Las Cruces (a meat-packing enterprise).

The reason Lueras recalls this drive so vividly after all these years is Brazel's very odd behavior. After making several attempts at conversation, Lueras finally gave up. The rest of the trip was made in total silence. Lueras was nonplussed, and did not know what to make of the silent treatment from his boss.

Today, Lueras states his belief that 'They (the military) really messed him up."

...Mack told friends and family that the debris came from an airborne explosion not a crash~because it consisted of separate pieces spread over a large area.
Vegetation in the area of the debris was singed.

The debris was like nothing he had ever seen before: "very odd... the strangest stuff he had ever seen."

(Ed note: Recall Mac had turned in two weather balloons previous to this, so like most everyone else, he was familiar with 'sticks, foil and rubber'.)

The metal was different from any metal he was familiar with [and] because he could not cut, scratch or whittle it with his knife. [The similar to balsa wood struts that Mac showed to the Proctors, and their inability to be burned or Whittled that he demonstrated.]

posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 04:53 PM

Of great importance is Bill Jr.'s statement that his father told him the Army had admitted they had definitely established that "it wasn't anything made by us."

Mack may well have been told this during his detention as a means to convince him of the need for his cooperation.

However, there is nothing in the record to indicate that either Mack, his family, or friends ever raised or broached the topic of bodies.

In 1947, [Frank] Joyce was a 24-year-old announcer for KGFL in Roswell. He was also a stringer for the United Press wire service, meaning that he would place interesting stories on the press wire for national pickup.

It was in this capacity that he got into trouble with the Army Air Force for placing the Blanchard "captured disk" release on the UP wire. This made the claim an international sensation, instead of a story confined to Roswell.

Joyce said the Blanchard press release was delivered to him by hand by Lieut. Walter Haut, the Roswell public information officer.

At the time of the interview with Moore, Joyce was still leery of talking about his involvement in the 1947 events, citing his reluctance to reveal information about what seemed a top-secret topic that could harm national security if disclosed, as well as concerns about his job as a media personality.

So it would seem that, understandably, Joyce told the truth to Moore then, but not the entire truth.

According to Joyce, he had been "spinning records" and reporting the local news on his Sunday afternoon radio show on July 6. As was his habit, he called Sheriff Wilcox while a record was playing to inquire about newsworthy items.

Wilcox put Brazel on the telephone and Joyce interviewed him off the air. Joyce then suggested to Wilcox that the military be contacted, and Wilcox followed the advice.

Curiously, Joyce went into detail for Moore about what Brazel did not tell him he found during that first interview, such as "balloon parts" and "balsa parts."

But there is nothing about Brazel's description of what he did find, which must have formed the substance of the interview.

Instead, Joyce talked about Brazel's frame of mind during the conversation, characterizing him as "terrified," but without elaboration or explanation.

He then discussed a second interview that he had with Brazel. We didn't mention this earlier because, unlike the other four interviews discussed previously, this second interview with Joyce is the only one where Brazel admitted he was coerced.
Joyce described how Brazel came into the radio station a few days after the Sunday phone call to change his story.

Upon hearing the new version, Joyce confronted Brazel off the air. "Just a minute!" said Joyce, "You know that this story that you've told me now in no way matches the story you told me on the phone."

After a pause, Brazel leaned closer and told Joyce, "Look, son. You keep this to yourself. They told me to come in here and tell you this story or it would go awfully hard on me and you".

Moore asked Joyce if Brazel had mentioned bodies to him on the phone. Joyce's cryptic response was, I can't go into that. I don't want to say." Moore pressed for more, but Joyce concluded by saying, "I think I've said all I want to on that.
I made up my mind a long time ago that I would only go so far with that part of the story. That rancher apparently died with what he knew.... Whatever that thing was, the rancher saw it all, and it didn't originate on this planet.

What I heard later about the Air Force having bodies of little men from space... was totally consistent with what I had heard at the time."

Joyce told Randle and Schmitt that Brazel had related "everything" on the telephone, but, as in the Moore interview, then refused to say more or answer specific questions about what it was that Brazel had found.

Now he added that when Brazel visited the radio station several days later, there were several military men waiting outside in the lobby. And in this retelling, Joyce added a new and extremely provocative detail. "As he was leaving, Brazel turned and said, 'You know how they talk about little green men? Well, they weren't green.'"

Joyce was interviewed four more times by Randle and Schmitt between March 1991 and September 1992.

He added details to his previous accounts, such as where Brazel was standing during the discussion at the station, and how he (Joyce) conducted himself during what seems to have been a very lively discussion between the two men.

...And when Joyce retold the part where he confronted Brazel about the discrepancies between the first and second accounts, he now quoted himself as specifically saying, "The story is different, especially about the little green men." To which Brazel replied, "Only they weren't green."

posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 04:54 PM

The following is a reconstruction of the original telephone conversation between Brazel and Joyce, based on Joyce's comments to us in this interview.

Brazel: [angrily] Who's gonna clean all that stuff up? That's what I wanna know. I need someone out there to clean it up.

Joyce: What stuff? What are you talking about?

Brazel: [somberly] Don't know. Don't know what it is. Maybe it's from one of them flying saucer things.

Joyce: Oh, really? Then you should call the Army air base. They are responsible for everything that flies in the air. They should be able to help you or tell you what it is.

Brazel: [At this point, according to Joyce, Brazel really started "losing it."] Oh, God. Oh, my God. What am I gonna do? It's horrible, horrible, just horrible.

Joyce: What is? What's horrible? What are you talking about?

Brazel: The stench! Just awful.

Joyce: Stench? From what? What are you talking about?

Brazel: They're dead.

Joyce: What? Who's dead?

Brazel: Little people.

[At this point, Joyce thought to himself, "This is crazy!" He decided to play the role of devil's advocate to a story he did not believe.]

Joyce: What the...? Where are they? Where did you find them?

Brazel: Somewhere else.

Joyce: Well, you know, the military is always firing rockets and experimenting with monkeys and things. So, maybe...

Brazel: [Shouting] God dammit! They're not monkeys, and they're not human!

With that, Brazel ended the conversation.

Joyce continued, "A day or so later W. W. called me at the station to tell me that he didn't have the story quite right the first time.

So, I invited him over to the station. When he arrived, I could see the military waiting for him outside in the lobby, and he appeared to be under a great deal of stress.

He then told me the new story, and that's when I challenged him about it and made the little green men comment, referring back to our original telephone conversation.

That's when he replied that they weren't green, and out he went.

Just before she died in 1985, Wilcox's widow Inez stated that her husband was informed about the incident by "someone who came into town."

Then her husband "Went out there to the site. There was a big burned area, and he saw debris. It was in the evening. There were 'space beings.' Their heads were large. They wore suits like silk."

Above info is from NICAP

edit on 3-7-2016 by A51Watcher because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 04:55 PM

Further research reveals that Sheriff Wilcox not only participated in threats against civilians to keep quiet about what they had witnessed, but afterwards he himself and his family's life was threatened to his face by the military.

If the story was planted, how do you account for Marcels interview 30 years later in 1978 describing small beams, foil, and a large debris field, which are the same things as Brazel described in 1947 in the newspaper article?

If you believe most every thing written, how about all of the other witnesses describing the same debris as Brazel?

Well in the first place it helps if you aware of most everything written in order to make a judgement.

Did every witness participate in a mass cover up going on 70 years now? If not, point me to the debris we can't connect to pieces that make up the construction of radar targets. I haven't found them yet.

Brazel described mundane articles in his coerced 'new' descriptions.

However his and his neighbors the Proctors, description of the pieces he brought them were "sort of like balsa wood (or plastic, Loretta Proctors words) but could not be burned or whittled.

In other words this was the damdest balsa wood they had ever seen.

Same went for the 'foil', it was the damdest foil they had ever seen.

Point being, all of the debris was very unusual, according to those who got to inspect some.

A new pickup truck? Is there anything in the way of DMV title records (or whatever type of ownership verification used in 1947) of Brazel all of a sudden owning a 1947 or 1948 pickup during that week of 1947? Or is this more hearsay stories?

While I have traveled many miles doing field research, that is one I don't have high enough on the priority list yet to have carried out personally. Maybe you should take that one on since it seems of such importance.

His neighbors the Proctors are the source of that information.

- Neighbors of Mac Brazel, including Loretta Proctor and her son Norris, reported that Brazel returned from his detention driving a new pick-up truck.

According to Norris Proctor, Brazel, who had been “dirt poor,” suddenly had money to buy a new house in Tularosa, a meat locker in Las Cruces, and property in Colorado.

Robert Wolf, also a good friend of Brazel, recounted how he observed him with a new truck at the Mitchell Feed and Granary in Roswell within months of the incident.

Was Brazel paid the reward for the physical evidence of a flying saucer?

Above excerpts from

Loreeta makes this claim in several video interviews.

To be fair there is word from family members that even before the incident, Mac spoke of an upcoming trip into town to look for a new vehicle.

Now I have a few questions for you, if you don't mind.

- Why did Ramey’s Chief of Staff Colonel Thomas J. DuBose (who is pictured with Ramey in two of the weather balloon photos) sign a sworn affidavit in 1990 attesting to switching the balloon wreckage for the genuine material? “It was a cover story . . . to get the press off of Ramey’s back.”

- Contrary to Ramey announcing to reporters the weather balloon explanation along with his cancellation of debris being flown to Wright Field in Dayton, Ohio, why did the FBI refute the General’s claims in a telex which was sent at 6:17 p.m. CST the same day of the press conference on July 8? “...But that telephonic conversation between their office and [Wright Field] had not borne out this belief. Disc and balloon being transported to Wright Field by special plane for examination.”

- Why did a special photo team from Washington, D.C., under the command of Col. Anton Hansen, arrive at Roswell to photograph the recovery and record the subsequent events? Against standard operating procedure, the 3rd Photo Lab at the Roswell base was never called in to photograph the crash site or the material.

- Why were two Secret Service agents by the names McCann and Devinnes dispatched from Washington to represent the president in Roswell during the incident?

- Why were there unknown doctors and nurses observed at the Roswell base hospital at the time of the incident as noted by nurse Rosemary McMannis?

- If the recovery was of nothing more unusual that a Mogul balloon, photographed in Ramey’s office by the news media on July 8, why did the military, on July 9, tour the various news media in Roswell retrieving copies of Walter Haut’s press release? If there was nothing to the story, why did the military search radio station KGFL, taking everything that related to the crash, including the documents that newsman Frank Joyce tried to hide?

- Why did the U.S. military, like a scene from a 1950’s sci-fi movie, surround the Roswell Sheriff s Office just to retrieve a small box of debris that Brazel had left there days earlier?

- There was reportedly talk at the base during the recovery concerning “bodies” involved in the crash. Rumors circulated through the town of Roswell about one of the crew still alive. One day after the first press release, the Army and Navy, as reported by the Associated Press, moved to “Shut down the rumors.” The Air Force now maintains that no such “talk” concerning bodies took place. Why?

- Secrecy oaths would not have been required for the recovery of a weather balloon, or any other conventional device, unless it was a highly classified subject. Why were the men involved taken into a conference room in groups of 10–12 and verbally sworn to protect the truth concerning what actually happened? Others at Roswell and Fort Worth were ordered not to discuss it, or ever bring it up again.

- Ed Reese, in charge of the now declassified Project Blue Book files at the National Archives, told us that he too was surprised that Roswell is not included in the Blue Book system with all other explained reports. Why is the most highly publicized UFO case of all time strangely absent?

- There are two, possibly three sites involved with the crash at Roswell. First is the debris field. Thirty miles to the southeast where the remains of the craft and crew were located is the second. A few miles to the northwest of the debris site was apparently a touchdown point of baked soil and fused sand which was first seen by Chaves County deputies and then by Lewis R. Rickett and Dr. Lincoln LaPaz. How is it possible that a balloon and array train could be responsible for sites such as these?

- Pieces of small wreckage Brazel’s son Bill Jr. had managed to collect were confiscated by the military in 1949. Why was the military still monitoring the situation two years later? This was almost two years after Mogul had been declassified. Why were search teams still dispatched from the base at Roswell through the end of 1947, through 1948, and into 1949 to recover remaining debris at the sites specifically after heavy rainfalls as described by Major Charles McGee?

edit on 3-7-2016 by A51Watcher because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 04:56 PM
- If the Roswell device was nothing more than a weather balloon, why bring in LaPaz, a noted expert in the discovery and recovery of meteorites? LaPaz had worked on dozens of classified government projects, including the ultra-classified Manhattan Project. If it was nothing more unusual than a balloon, why would the Pentagon assign him to determine the speed and trajectory of the downed device two months after the crash?

- In 1952, Major Ellis Boldra, an engineer stationed at Roswell, discovered a one-foot-square section of debris locked in a safe in the engineering office. It displayed the same extraordinary characteristics described by 1947 witnesses including the memory capabilities. Why did Washington D.C. dispatch a special courier to retrieve the material immediately after news leaked out about its discovery in Roswell?

- At our request, retired Navy Seal officer Charles Mascovich submitted the names and documented series numbers of over two dozen military personnel stationed at Roswell in July 1947 to both the Defense Department and the Veteran’s Administration for further confirmation of military service. The list included Charles E. Hanshaw, James W. Hundley, William J. Cardell, Lee J. Mulliner, Melvin E. Brown, Ernest O. Powell, Clyde M. Robertson, Cecil T. Yoakum, Harold T. Hastings, Edward M. Sager, and Donald E. Carroll. Why does neither the Defense Department nor the Veteran’s Administration have records of any of these men when we can document that each served at the Roswell Army Air Field?

- If there was nothing to the Roswell case other than a misidentification of a weather balloon, why have witnesses, on their deathbeds, denied that? Melvin E. Brown spent the last four days of his life telling his family that it wasn’t a weather balloon. Why was the dying archaeologist/geologist at St. Petersburg Hospital in Florida telling the nurses she had seen the bodies and then warning them about government reprisal? Roswell base Provost Marshal Edwin Easley, base Adjutant Patrick Saunders, and 393 Squadron pilot O.W. “Pappy” Henderson also gave deathbed testimony confirming the “flying saucer” crash and the recovery of bodies. And there are others more recent.

- The unusual qualities of the material described to date by two dozen known eyewitnesses are consistent in every detail. In appearance, tensile strength, apparent weightlessness, memory characteristics, uninterpretable symbology, fiber-optic and plastic-like, metallic composition, its physical make-up would be difficult to duplicate even by today’s standards. Why do none of the first-hand witnesses describe common materials from a weather balloon? And more importantly, why were none of these individuals interviewed by the Air Force for their 1994 Roswell Report?

- In an unprecedented reaction by then Secretary of Defense Les Aspin, why did he refuse to respond to three separate letters of request for the release of the Roswell files from Congressman Steve Shiff of New Mexico in 1993? Why did Congressman Shiff also receive denials from the Air Force, the Pentagon, and the National Security Council for similar requests?

- And if Mogul was as highly classified as the Air Force maintains, which evidently led to the misidentification in Roswell, how is it that they invited the press to photograph this missing, top-secret balloon in Ramey’s office and promote the publication of seven different pictures in practically every major newspaper throughout the country? And why would they blow the entire project (with pictures) in the Alamogordo News of July 10, 1947?

- Concerning the 1997 Air Force book titled Roswell Report—Case Closed that proposed the “crash dummy” explanation, given that the very earliest such tests took place six years after the 1947 incident, why didn’t the Air Force consider that none of the first-hand witnesses to the bodies remained in the service or were still in New Mexico at the time of such crash-dummy tests?

- Each description of the bodies by the witnesses from Roswell is consistent. Interestingly, they do not resemble what have been commonly described by witnesses in reported UFO occupant cases as well as the alleged abduction accounts. This would tend to rule out contamination from such sources. And why were none of these witnesses ever interviewed by the Air Force for any of their recent reports?

- Why would the United States military resort to gross civil-rights violations, i.e., physical intimidation and death threats to such civilians as
Frankie Rowe,
Tommy Thomson,
Frank Joyce,
Judd Roberts,
Walt Whitmore Sr.,
Pete and Ruben Anaya,
John McBoyle, and
George Wilcox?

And why were their threats extended to even the witness’s children to insure their silence about the recovery of simply a weather balloon? Project Mogul was declassified within two days of the reported balloon explanation on July 10, 1947; still the threats continued for years after the incident.

- And finally, why do retired members of the military today in 1999, years after the Air Force Project Mogul and Crash Dummy Reports, still refuse to break their oaths of secrecy concerning the Roswell incident?

Above questions from

Thanks ever so much in advance for your thoughtful considered answers.

edit on 3-7-2016 by A51Watcher because: (no reason given)

posted on Jul, 3 2016 @ 05:05 PM

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
a reply to: A51Watcher

You're far too deeply wrapped up in the legend of Roswell and not the initial story.

Sounds like you're far too deeply wrapped up in the coverup debunking legend of Roswell and not the actual story.

Your "initial story" means weather balloon and harassed rancher news clips that were confabulated coverup stories as the evidence shows.

Everyone involved with the clips said so later on.

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