So whose bright idea was the 'Army Captures Flying Saucer' headline?

a reply to: A51Watcher

Which is why the balloon cover story was put out early the next day before any world agencies could come running.

But the guys that put out the story to the press knew what balloons were, every day they flew during the war, balloons were sent aloft to monitor conditions. They were aware of every phenomenon they encountered during the war and over that super secret airforce base.

Balloons, spies would never buy it. In fact it would confirm the previous days story. About cordoned off, they would be less concerned about the crash site than maybe getting access later to where ever it was taken to.

Or you don't know how spying works. Wheres the nearest bar off base?

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: A51Watcher

Which is why the balloon cover story was put out early the next day before any world agencies could come running.

But the guys that put out the story to the press knew what balloons were, every day they flew during the war, balloons were sent aloft to monitor conditions. They were aware of every phenomenon they encountered during the war and over that super secret airforce base.


Balloons, spies would never buy it. In fact it would confirm the previous days story. About cordoned off, they would be less concerned about the crash site than maybe getting access later to where ever it was taken to.

Sure it would confirm the previous days story, continuing to 'divert attention' from the crash site, which was never mentioned publicly in those days, so spies would never have been 'less concerned' about it.

However both the military and spies would be concerned about anyone getting access to where it was taken to.

Good luck with that.

And... if he and his buddy Blanchard had decided to release it on their own as you assert, he would have said so.

He didn't, he said it was the Pentagons idea.

Or you don't know how spying works. Wheres the nearest bar off base?

James bond spymaster now?

Project Venona probably had bartenders there.

And talking in bars is one of the first things you are briefed about when applying for a clearance.

Talking in public period for that matter about anything work related.

That stuff is for the movies.

a reply to: A51Watcher

Sure it would confirm the previous days story, continuing to 'divert attention' from the crash site, which was never mentioned publicly in those days, so spies would never have been 'less concerned' about it.

We're not even on the same page. Printing more about a crashed UFO isn't diverting attention. Even in the first place. Theres no need to mention anything at all...

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: A51Watcher

Sure it would confirm the previous days story, continuing to 'divert attention' from the crash site, which was never mentioned publicly in those days, so spies would never have been 'less concerned' about it.

We're not even on the same page. Printing more about a crashed UFO isn't diverting attention. Even in the first place. Theres no need to mention anything at all...

Unless they suspected civilian knowledge of the crash site which might leak out.

a reply to: A51Watcher

Couldn't it be that the first story was a miscalculation? Flying discs where 'big' that period, so they went with that explanation. Only it exploded in their face so they had to change stories. Afterwards they noticed some advantages of their initial story and they further explored that path of misinformation.

Sounds skeptic, but I like to keep that in mind as well. Still not sure if the official story is really what happened though.

a reply to: A51Watcher

On Tuesday morning, July 8, I would attend the regularly scheduled staff meeting at 7:30 a.m.

Besides

Blanchard,
Marcel;
CIC Capt. Sheridan Cavitt;
Col. James I. Hopkins, the operations officer;
Major Patrick Saunders, the base adjutant;
Major Isadore Brown, the personnel officer;
Lt. Col. Ulysses S. Nero, the supply officer; and from Carswell AAF in Fort Worth, Texas, Blanchard’s boss,
Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey and his chief of staff,
Col. Thomas J. DuBose were also in attendance.

Attention needed to be diverted from the more important site north of town by acknowledging the other location.

If Jesse Marcel attended this staff meeting, why didn't he tell Stanton Friedman or Bob Pratt about the second "more important" site of a crashed disc and alien bodies 30 years later in 1978? The purpose of these interviews was for Friedman and Pratt to find out information of an alleged crash. Marcel goes on to talk about the property of the materials found as being something he's never seen before - suggesting "not of Earth." So he wasn't withholding information or his personal thoughts of "aliens." Here he supposedly has further information from his superiors of a separate crash site and alien bodies and he leaves it out in his interviews? That's ridiculous. Even after others came forward with this part of the tale 30+ years after the incident, Marcel still had never mentioned alien bodies.

You seem to have this silly derisive attitude in your responses. The case has been going on for 70 years and has provided ZERO in the way of evidence. Sure, there's an awful lot of stories going around and that's great if it's all you need, but it does nothing for people requiring actual evidence. After all, this is an extraordinary claim of a visiting alien species, it shouldn't be taken lightly. Using bombing missions or a position of authority as a benchmark for honesty is foolish. From Presidents to those that carry a supposed position of morality like ministers/clergy, lie. That's the unfortunate fact.

When you step back and look at the beginning of this incident with a claim of a stick and foil built alien spacecraft, it's comical. Add the fact that in June/July during this exact time period 80 miles southwest, balloons with stick and foil targets were being launched, it's beyond comical.

a reply to: A51Watcher

Unless they suspected civilian knowledge of the crash site which might leak out.

Might leak out?

Printing it in a news paper won't leak it out?

Really?

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
a reply to: A51Watcher

You seem to have this silly derisive attitude in your responses.

Correction: Only in my responses to wise guys with no respect for Veterans who served their country with honor.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: A51Watcher

Unless they suspected civilian knowledge of the crash site which might leak out.

Might leak out?

Printing it in a news paper won't leak it out?

Really?

Yes really.

No news paper printing said anything about the crash site.

originally posted by: Ectoplasm8
a reply to: A51Watcher

On Tuesday morning, July 8, I would attend the regularly scheduled staff meeting at 7:30 a.m.

Besides

Blanchard,
Marcel;
CIC Capt. Sheridan Cavitt;
Col. James I. Hopkins, the operations officer;
Major Patrick Saunders, the base adjutant;
Major Isadore Brown, the personnel officer;
Lt. Col. Ulysses S. Nero, the supply officer; and from Carswell AAF in Fort Worth, Texas, Blanchard’s boss,
Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey and his chief of staff,
Col. Thomas J. DuBose were also in attendance.

Attention needed to be diverted from the more important site north of town by acknowledging the other location.

If Jesse Marcel attended this staff meeting, why didn't he tell Stanton Friedman or Bob Pratt about the second "more important" site of a crashed disc and alien bodies 30 years later in 1978? The purpose of these interviews was for Friedman and Pratt to find out information of an alleged crash. Marcel goes on to talk about the property of the materials found as being something he's never seen before - suggesting "not of Earth." So he wasn't withholding information or his personal thoughts of "aliens." Here he supposedly has further information from his superiors of a separate crash site and alien bodies and he leaves it out in his interviews? That's ridiculous. Even after others came forward with this part of the tale 30+ years after the incident, Marcel still had never mentioned alien bodies.

Quite likely because Jesse stuck with what he had first hand knowledge of and hands on experience with.

Speculation on other matters appears to not have been his style.

When you step back and look at the beginning of this incident with a claim of a stick and foil built alien spacecraft, it's comical. Add the fact that in June/July during this exact time period 80 miles southwest, balloons with stick and foil targets were being launched, it's beyond comical.

When you step back and look at skeptics claim of 'stick and foil built alien spacecraft' you realize that this claim is disingenuous because they are attempting to change the nature of what was found by twisting their words.


We have further corroboration from Gen. Dubose, who along with Marcell were quite familiar with 'stick and foil balloons' -

Gen. Dubose's testimony about where the weather balloon debris displayed in Ramey's office came from -


"We didn’t know what the hell it was. Nobody knew.

But I can tell you this — it damn sure wasn’t a weather balloon. ...(Gen) McMullen said, Look, why don't you come up with something, anything you can use to get the press off our back?

So we came up with this weather balloon story, which I thought was a hell of a good idea.

Somebody got one and we ran it up a couple of hundred feet and dropped it to make it look like it crashed, and that's what we used...

Now I imagine, privately, some people felt bad about doing things that way. But it worked. The story stuck."

...

Yeah meaning they felt bad about using Maj. Marcel as the fall guy without telling him.

He comes out of the map room with Ramey and "Surprise!"

The debris he had recovered was gone and had been replaced with the wrecked weather balloon.

(post by A51Watcher removed for a manners violation)

Oh dear, a manners violation.

Then I shall try to be more diplomatic and rephrase my response.

To the honorable Arbitrageur:

Your primary objection to the OP posted was -

So you create this thread focused on one person's affadavit, and call this person "the man" instead of giving his name?

Well if you had read the entire OP, you would have noticed in the next to last paragraph -

Walter Haut, who released this headline to the media, was also allowed to see the recovered Disc and alien bodies by his commander and old friend from WWII - Col Blanchard.

So as you can see your objection is unfounded and baseless.

originally posted by: A51Watcher

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: A51Watcher

Unless they suspected civilian knowledge of the crash site which might leak out.

Might leak out?

Printing it in a news paper won't leak it out?

Really?

Yes really.

No news paper printing said anything about the crash site.

This is getting borrringgg...

This one tells his name, and where his ranch is:

Bottom left in here....

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: A51Watcher

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: A51Watcher

Unless they suspected civilian knowledge of the crash site which might leak out.

Might leak out?

Printing it in a news paper won't leak it out?

Really?

Yes really.

No news paper printing said anything about the crash site.

This is getting borrringgg...

This one tells his name, and where his ranch is:

Bottom left in here....

Only because you are confusing the debris field with the crash site.

The link you provided says nothing about the crash site, only the debris field.

And the crash site is the point we have been discussing for the last several posts.

Try not confusing the two separate sites and you will have an easier time keeping up.

a reply to: A51Watcher

Keep up with what. You keep saying they were trying to keep it secret, by printing more newspaper articles about it.

Thats stupid dude.

Done here.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: A51Watcher

Keep up with what. You keep saying they were trying to keep it secret, by printing more newspaper articles about it.

Thats stupid dude.

Done here.

Keeping up with your own points you are trying to make is what.

And no, not "keeping it secret", but 'diverting attention' from the crash site as stated by keeping attention focused on the debris field, because local civilians were already aware of that site and word was spreading quickly.

Calling names and running away fits the definition of

stupid

more accurately.

Most forum readers recognize that as a declaration of crying "Uncle".

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

BTW, you assume that Marcel was informed along with everyone else there that 'the more important site' contained a flying saucer and alien bodies.

Any reference to the second site may have been cryptically described as the reported crash site of the vehicle that left the debris.

We have no evidence of how this site was described at that meeting.

And no one was informed as to how this diversion of attention was to be accomplished, at that time.


Jesse was just about to find out how.

His good buddies McMullen and Dubose had a plan.

a reply to: A51Watcher

Haut wrote his affadavid roughly 55 years after the event, he was around 80 by then. What we do not know is how well his recollection was; e.g. did he keep a diary or at least write down the events in 1947 - which would have made his recollection more trustworthy - or did he just sat down and told Morgan (the notary) what he THOUGHT had happened? From personal observation (and being somewhat older myself) I know that it is quite difficult to recall precise details from an event long ago, even if it was an impressive event.

What is clear is that something came down that day, that much has been formally acknowledged by the US Government (and let's assume for a while we trust them). We don't know exactly what - was it a Russian probe, a weather balloon, or a subterranean scoutship? I believe the latter, but have no more proof than Haut offered - just take my word for it.

Of course, being here on a conspiracy site, I can not refuse to offer an entirely different explanation. The war was just over in those days and the cold war had not really started yet. Imagine hundreds of thousands of people, living a fairly comfortable life in the military, facing the treath of unemployment. No more fascists or Japs to fight, the only nuclear power in the world - the US was on top of things, but the clock was ticking: sure enough soon enough the American people would start asking questions why that enormeous armed force still had to be maintained "all over my back, I'm paying waaay to much taxes." So, what do you do..

You set up a scenario to convince the Government we are under threat. A severe threat. You stage the downing of a saucer, up to the point you even allow, nay - stimulate! - the publication of a news article in the papers. The President himself is alerted, top level brass play the game with a solid poker face and convince the higher echelons that this requires substantial funding. Which is granted.

Tens of thousands have lived comfortable lives being employed by the army ever since. Haut may well have been just an easy target, a guy that was known for his gullibility, so they set him up too.

Either that - or it was a subterranean scout ship, I say.

originally posted by: game over man
So if the OP is true, then everyone in town knew a flying saucer had crashed and so they had to tell the truth then changed the story to a weather balloon, or the press released the headline before it was classified?

If it was a debris field and the craft was not intact, how did everyone know it was saucer shaped?

Some of the debris was what we would now call "memory metals" that are flexible can "remember" their original shape. They found sheet metal along with metal trusses. But nobody ever mentions rice paper, ballast, electronics, wires, fibre optics or fuel cells.