Democratic Party takes major stand for reproductive freedom

a reply to: In4ormant

Then we need to allow sex education and contraceptives. It can't be both ways. Humans are sexual creatures. Abstinence-only sermons and demands do not override hormones. There will always be unwanted pregnancies unless fertile males and females are taught how to avoid them.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: In4ormant

Then we need to allow sex education and contraceptives.

I agree

originally posted by: In4ormant
I dont believe people should have murder as a choice.

Really, because you've given the State that Choice in a variety of ways.

On topic however, this is where you and I see things differently. I don't see Abortion as Murder like you do.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: In4ormant
I dont believe people should have murder as a choice.

Really, because you've given the State that Choice in a variety of ways.

On topic however, this is where you and I see things differently. I don't see Abortion as Murder like you do.

It's ok to disagree. No need to strawman me to try and make me out as a hypocrite. We can disagree without going down that road. It's weak.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom

originally posted by: In4ormant
I don't want my tax money funding the death of babies. They wanna murder a kid then pony up the cash for your own convictions.

And I don't want to pay for someone's welfare.

It isn't murder if it isn't a living, thinking, feeling human being.

Perhaps the GOP wants to fund IUDs, tube-tying and birth control implants instead? Or do they just want women to be treated as chattel/property and expected to have sex only when they're told it's acceptable?

You talk as though a woman has no control over her own body at all, and has no means to take responsibility for herself and her own actions.

You mean if no one else pays for her birth control and abortions, she will just magically become pregnant out of the blue?

There is nothing, nothing at all she can do under her own power to prevent becoming pregnant unless she wants to?

I had no idea I was that powerless over things ... I wonder how on earth I've managed to go all these years without anyone paying for my full and active sex life and still only managed to have the one child I intended to have without having to visit an abortion doctor every other month? In fact, I've never had to visit one at all.

Could it be because I took some freakin' responsibility for myself?

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: MystikMushroom

originally posted by: In4ormant
I don't want my tax money funding the death of babies. They wanna murder a kid then pony up the cash for your own convictions.

And I don't want to pay for someone's welfare.

It isn't murder if it isn't a living, thinking, feeling human being.

Perhaps the GOP wants to fund IUDs, tube-tying and birth control implants instead? Or do they just want women to be treated as chattel/property and expected to have sex only when they're told it's acceptable?

You talk as though a woman has no control over her own body at all, and has no means to take responsibility for herself and her own actions.

You mean if no one else pays for her birth control and abortions, she will just magically become pregnant out of the blue?

There is nothing, nothing at all she can do under her own power to prevent becoming pregnant unless she wants to?

I had no idea I was that powerless over things ... I wonder how on earth I've managed to go all these years without anyone paying for my full and active sex life and still only managed to have the one child I intended to have without having to visit an abortion doctor every other month? In fact, I've never had to visit one at all.

Could it be because I took some freakin' responsibility for myself?

No one has to be responsible for their actions anymore. There's always a quick fix. Everyone's a victim.

a reply to: ketsuko

only managed to have the one child I intended to have without having to visit an abortion doctor every other month? In fact, I've never had to visit one at all.

What the ... what are you talking about?
Who visits an abortion clinic every other month? No one. That's who.
Congratulations that you didn't do what no one ever does??

a reply to: ketsuko

originally posted by: In4ormant

It's ok to disagree. No need to strawman me to try and make me out as a hypocrite. We can disagree without going down that road. It's weak.

I do disagree to some extent with you and it's not a strawman either. If you're ok with capital punishment or collateral damage in battle then you're ok with murder.

I don't know if you're ok with those or not. I was just pointing that out that's all. Funny you should find that a straw man argument yet you don't seem to have a problem with others implying that those who are Pro-Choice are ok with child sacrifice.

Odd what kinds of statements we'll allow as being ok and what we find offensive isn't it??

originally posted by: In4ormant
No one has to be responsible for their actions anymore. There's always a quick fix. Everyone's a victim.

INDEED.

By DESIGN.

All the better to trumpet the Almighty State as the savior of all . . . . all the carefully engineered

victims . . . even if only in their own heavily propagandized minds.

a reply to: mOjOm

Evidently you subscribe to the notion that

every kind of killing is EQUAL to every other kind of killing . . .

regardless of

--context
--killer
--killed
--motives
--consequences.

I don't subscribe to that . . . notion.

RELATIVELY Very few things in life are truly IDENTICALLY equal to other things.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I don't usually intentionally miss the hyperbole, but when I do, I make posts like this one.

a reply to: ketsuko
Do tell, ket!!! - how did you manage during all those years to only have the one? How did you avoid the possibility of any others?

Was it that there was just that one time, then? You only did it that one time, and it was under protest and very much not appreciated?
Is that how it happened?

Pretty freaking amazing!!

a reply to: BO XIAN

Not at all.

I would say the same about you since you seem to think every situation involving an abortion is equal and is also equal to murder.

a reply to: mOjOm

Well, let's see ...

In the case of most capital punishments, the person being punished has generally denied at least one other person their right to life first. In other words, they are not an innocent and they have generally shown blatant disregard for a person's right to life prior to having their own taken away from them. Usually, capital punishment is also reserved for the most heinous of acts too.

The most recent case I can think of in this area involved a man who shot and killed, execution style, a man, his wife, and their 24 month old toddler. Even if you try to make allowances for the husband and wife having done something to incite, what on earth did the toddler do?

Contrast that with a women who engages in an activity she knows (she has to in this society or else she has to be dumber than a box of rocks) is designed by nature to get a woman pregnant and, shocker!, ends up pregnant. So she kills the resulting offspring. Just exactly what did it do to deserve that and please explain to me how it is in any way the moral equivalent of the murderer outlined above when it comes to having its life taken?

Now, we can argue about eye for an eye and all that in the instance of the murderer and the death penalty, but to draw a moral equivalence between the unborn child and the murderer is a false equivalency. You don't get much more innocent in life than not even having been born.

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: In4ormant

It's ok to disagree. No need to strawman me to try and make me out as a hypocrite. We can disagree without going down that road. It's weak.

I do disagree to some extent with you and it's not a strawman either. If you're ok with capital punishment or collateral damage in battle then you're ok with murder.

I don't know if you're ok with those or not. I was just pointing that out that's all. Funny you should find that a straw man argument yet you don't seem to have a problem with others implying that those who are Pro-Choice are ok with child sacrifice.

Odd what kinds of statements we'll allow as being ok and what we find offensive isn't it??

Well one is being lobbied for so not really my opinion. You implied my stance on Capitol punishment whereas I gave none. "If" I am for "this" I must be ok with "that".

If you want my opinion on something just ask. If you want to know what I voted for just ask. No need to make a connection where none exists.

Pro-choice is directly related to abortion. I consider abortion murder. There is no implying. If you aren't ok with murder, in my opinion, you wouldn't be pro-choice.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: ketsuko
Do tell, ket!!! - how did you manage during all those years to only have the one? How did you avoid the possibility of any others?

Was it that there was just that one time, then? You only did it that one time, and it was under protest and very much not appreciated?
Is that how it happened?

Pretty freaking amazing!!

Oh, now you want me to start writing pornography?

Please, there was a reason we were described as "joined at the hip" and while you might like it, I have no intention of satisfying your prurient curiosity.

a reply to: ketsuko

Again. I don't see Abortion as Murder.

I'm not comparing the two. You are.

a reply to: ketsuko

You had only one child. Most likely due to knowing how to avoid pregnancy.

Yet you don't approve of birth control or contraceptives or sex education....???.

which is it?

It's a simple question. What did you do to avoid other pregnancies?
You can be as vague as you like - or as specific........fact remains - you somehow avoided other pregnancies and did so deliberately. What did it take?

a reply to: In4ormant

I'm not ok with murder. But like I said, I don't see Abortion as Murder.

So this is where our opinions on this are going to reach a stop.

I don't consider it murder unless the child is born already. I don't like late term abortions either.

But what I do know for sure is that unless it's my baby or I'm involved in the situation it shouldn't be my decision. It's up to the person involved and the doctor. I also know that if I was in the situation I would want all the choices possible as what to do. Therefore I'm not going to force my personal choice on to another person. That's how I see it.