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WAR: Catholic Archbishop Kidnapped in Iraq

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posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by Simulacra



Iraq needs to be expunged from the face of the earth in the good of all mankind. That country is a waste of soil.

[edit on 1/17/2005 by Simulacra]


This is way over the top ,what you're saying here Sim...
Iraq needs to be expunged...What about the innocent people who have nothing to do with this whole thing...
You are way OFF here ..Sim....

I was gonna post this half hour ago,but i had a change of heart,because this whole war is 'really' annoying me...
Reuters;The Catholic archbishop of the Iraqi city of Mosul was kidnapped Monday in what the Vatican called an "act of terrorism."
Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls told Reuters the Holy See had received news of the kidnapping of Archbishop Basile Georges Casmoussa in Mosul. The spokesman demanded his immediate release but gave no details of the abduction.
"We have received news of the kidnapping of the ... Archbishop of Mosul, Basile Georges Casmoussa," Navarro-Valls said.
"The Holy See deplores this act of terrorism in the firmest manner and demands that the worthy pastor is swiftly freed unharmed to continue to carry out his ministry," the spokesman said.
According to the Vatican yearbook, Casmoussa was born in Qaraqosh, Iraq.
Reuters




posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by Simulacra
What beheading in the last four years has not occurred in Iraq?


Bush's friends in Saudi Arabia behead people all the time:

Two men beheaded for smuggling drugs into Saudi Arabia
At least 35 people were beheaded in the kingdom in 2004 compared with 52 people in 2003, most of whom were convicted of drug smuggling.

Saudi Arabia follows a strict interpretation of Islam under which people convicted of drug trafficking, murder, rape and armed robbery can be executed. Beheadings are carried out with a sword in public.


Here's another article on beheadings in Saudi Arabia:


Beheadings rise in the desert kingdom
If you are found guilty of any of the following in the kingdom - murder, rape, armed robbery, drug smuggling, apostasy (turning your back on Islam) or witchcraft - the price is beheading.

Prisoners are taken to a public place, often outside a mosque where the men have assembled after Friday prayers, thus ensuring maximum humiliation and distress to the prisoner.


Why does Bush try to condemn Iran for human rights while he let's his Saudi friends off the hook?


Anyway, I don't mean to take this thread off topic.
This is a terrible time for Christians in Iraq. Many have left Iraq during the eighties and afterwards and now even more will likely leave.

Al Jazeera has a fairly good article article on Christians in Iraq where they mention that many Christians in Iraq are bi-lingual and speak the language spoken by Jesus, Aramaic-Syriac.

aljazeera
Bilingual

Many Iraqi Christians still speak Aramaic-Syriac, the language of Jesus Christ. During the 1970s, bilingual cultural magazines in Arabic and Syriac were published and radio as well as television transmitted programmes in Aramaic.

In the northern region of Kurdistan, Christians number about 150,000, mostly Chaldeans.

Christians are represented by only one minister in the interim Iraqi government to which the US-led occupation handed over power on 28 June.

Poverty and war induced many Christians to start leaving Iraq, beginning in the early 1980s. Nearly half a million have gone in the past 15 years.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 03:01 PM
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Let me give a few excerpts and links to blow your theory out of the water...


FIVE terror suspects were held in Spain early today as al-Qaeda admitted planting the Madrid rail bombs that killed at least 200 people.
...............................
Earlier, three Arabs and two Indians were arrested at gunpoint after detectives discovered a gym bag packed with

explosives that failed to detonate on board one of the bombed trains. The bag contained metal fragments to make it more deadly and a mobile phone-linked detonator which had failed to go off.
................................
Police believe the bombers mistakenly set the alarm and detonator for 19.40 rather than 07.40 – the time when the other 10 bombs exploded.
................................
Three of those arrested were Moroccan – and one is believed to have been questioned before over a bomb attack on a Spanish nightclub in Casablanca last year.


Excerpted from.
Link


Three suspects in the Madrid train attacks blew themselves up, also killing a police officer, after they were surrounded in a massive security stakeout on Saturday, Spanish Interior Minister Angel Acebes said.

"The terrorists blew themselves up killing an officer of the police special forces and injuring 11 other police officers," said the minister.
..............................
The explosion, which went off when security forces tried to enter an apartment building in a Madrid suburb where the suspects were holed up, was "was very strong, the roof and part of the exterior wall were destroyed."
...............................
At least one of them was on a list of suspects wanted by investigators for ties to the March 11 attacks on four commuter trains in Madrid that killed 191, in Spain's worst terrorist attack.
...............................
When they became aware they were surrounded, the suspects in the building "started shooting from the apartment, shouting and spreading Arab chants", according to Acebes.


Excerpted from.
iafrica.com...

So much for your wild claim.

Even a judge from Spain found evidence that some of those arrested were part of the plot in 3/11.


A Judge in Spain Friday found enough evidence linking three Moroccans to Spain's bombings to order them held without bond.

All three denied involvement and said they were sleeping at the time. One shouted his innocence in court. Another cried.

The Judge found no evidence to link an Algerian suspect to the bombings, and ordered him released. The two Indian men arrested last week were ordered held on charges of collaborating with a terrorist organization.


Excerpted from.
talkleft.com...

Even evidence was found by a judge from Spain that 35 men, including Osama Bin Laden, and an Arab television journalist were involved in the planning of 9/11.


A Spanish judge has formally charged 35 men, including Osama Bin Laden and an Arab televison journalist, with involvement in the 11 September attacks on the United States.

High Court Judge Baltasar Garzon called for Interpol to arrest the al-Qaeda leader, whose exact whereabouts are unknown, and extradite him to Spain where some evidence suggests, he said, the 2001 attacks were planned.

Al-Jazeera journalist Tayseer Alouni, who interviewed Osama Bin Laden shortly after 11 September, is among 12 of those charged who have already been arrested by the Spanish authorities.

Judge Garzon, in a 692-page ruling, said Spain served "as a place or base for resting, preparation, doctrinising, support and financing" of al-Qaeda.

Also charged was Imad Eddim Barakat Yarkas, alias Abu Dahdah, suspected by authorities of heading an al-Qaeda cell in Spain and arrested in November 2001.


Excerpted from.
newswww.bbc.net.uk...

If i remember correctly, although I don't remember all the specifics, there was even more evidence coming from Spain, not from the CIA or the US, that one of the people who planned 9/11 had been invited by the ambassador of Iraq to Spain. If i remember I posted also that story here about 5 months ago or so. This news was from Spain, not from the US media. I will see if i can find that link again.



[edit on 17-1-2005 by Banshee]



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 03:05 PM
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The Vatican as mentioned above, is calling this an act of terrorism:



VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Iraqi Catholic archbishop of Mosul was kidnapped Monday in what the Vatican (news - web sites) called an "act of terrorism."

Archbishop Basile Georges Casmoussa, 66, was believed to be the highest-ranking Catholic prelate to be abducted in Iraq (news - web sites), where the local church has been the target of a bombing campaign which has rattled the tiny Christian minority.

"We have received news of the kidnapping of the ... Archbishop of Mosul, Basile Georges Casmoussa," Chief Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls told Reuters. He gave no details of the abduction.
Vatican



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
Now that's a new one....

BTW....it seems that you forgot that Spain pulled out it's troops after the 3/11 bombings.....not before. The decision by the new socialist government, which the people decided to put in power because "El Partido Popular" was in favor of Bush and they blame the attacks on the fact that they were supporting Bush before the bombings. The Socialists were the ones to pull out the troops from Iraq....after the Madrid bombings.

Your claim holds no ground unless you have proof....and obviously you are not even correctly informed as to what happened in Spain.

The police from Madrid caught a group of Arab men and surrounded them, the arab men began yelling to Allah and blew themselves up, with a few of the police officers....

The facts speak for themselves it was islamic extremists, not the US government....


No doubt your spoon fed explanation is very much acceptable as to what exactly took place, and hey, I'm certainly willing to accept that too
. Now I'm only speculating, but at the time i believe the Bush cabal utilized their strong arm fear tactics on the Spaniards incognito as terror extremists, much like the attacks carried out on America 9/11 to squash our freedoms, invade Iraq/Afgan, shrink the size of government and gain majority on all 3 levels of government. The neo cons plan was to carry out attacks using terrorism in Spain with the hopeful re-election of the favorable political party. Yes that was the intended goal. The Socialist party in Spain were already ahead in the polls to over throw the incumbent at the time, knowing it would spell a pull out of Iraq, our administration needed a solution. A mini 9/11 might create collective fear and the feeling of lack of security resulting in a favorable re-election and Spain will remain supporting the war in Iraq. Obviously thank god the plan had the opposite effect, or we would have seen future so called terrorist attacks in Canada, France, Germany etc to gain their international support on Terrorism too.

The general public are spoon fed lies. World governments are more or less aware that 9/11 was an inside job based on evidence/lack there of, which is why America has no support in the war on terrorism/Iraq. We stand alone much like the boy who cried wolf.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 03:18 PM
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I don't think the Vatican, or the Pope, are going to be behind the war, even after this. I do hope that this man is found alive soon. I don't care if he is an archbishop, he is an innocent man whose kidnapping, or whatever they have in mind of doing with him, should not be used for "spreading any messages" either by Allah or any other God. The same can be said of those moderate Muslims that were found hostages of insurgents. I am sure the insurgents have more hostages than what is being told in the news, it is just that the kidnapping of an archbishop makes more interesting news than the kidnapping or death of regular people in Iraq by the hands of the insurgents.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 03:24 PM
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FredT it seems that the targeting of the Catholic Archbishop is to enrage the christian population around the world, it seems to me.

Thanks Muaddib for the clarification of "Asyrian" I thought tribes like "Asyrians" and "Chaldeans" were ancients group long blend with the Arabs in the 7th century, but it seems that they are indeed the ancient reminding inhabitants of the northern Iraq. So sad that they are part of the history in the area and that is not many left.

Now this kidnapping is going to be very well view around the world for the fact that he is not only a high raking official but also a christian.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 03:28 PM
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YEAH, way to piss off half the civilized world.....

what an exlax moment....

if they release him... then things look better for them... (ahh how merciful)
if they kill him.... then every catholic will cry for blood.... (mexico, south america, most of europe...
hell, it is bad enough to get the irish to hate them...

It would actually be a good ploy of the CIA if they wanted to make them look bad..
but then they go and do it themselves...
bad bad bad little osamawannabees... bad



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
hell, it is bad enough to get the irish to hate them...

It would actually be a good ploy of the CIA if they wanted to make them look bad..
but then they go and do it themselves...
bad bad bad little osamawannabees... bad


Actually that same though cross my mind I feel that we have to monitor this one very closely so far I will go with terrorist doing the deed, but I will leave my conspiracy mind to other options.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by syntaxer

No doubt your spoon fed explanation is very much acceptable as to what exactly took place, and hey, I'm certainly willing to accept that too
. Now I'm only speculating, but at the time i believe the Bush cabal utilized their strong arm fear tactics on the Spaniards incognito as terror extremists, much like the attacks carried out on America 9/11 to squash our freedoms, invade Iraq/Afgan, shrink the size of government and gain majority on all 3 levels of government. The neo cons plan was to carry out attacks using terrorism in Spain with the hopeful re-election of the favorable political party. Yes that was the intended goal. The Socialist party in Spain were already ahead in the polls to over throw the incumbent at the time, knowing it would spell a pull out of Iraq, our administration needed a solution.


Oh boy....more made up claims?.... First off, what you call spon feeding I had to research in order to find it, because it is not given by any news in the US or by the US government. If anyone is being spoonfed are all the people who believe all the crap that Rense and others like him proclaim as truth.

And once more your ignorance of the events speak volumes for what your claims are....let me give you more news from Spain.

The voters in Spain changed their votes to the socialist party because of the attack in 3/11, not the other way around...

Let me give you more excerpts from Spain's leading expert on terrorism and political violence.


Professor Reinares argued that the assertion of a direct causal link between Iraq and 3/11 is “a great simplification.” Spain may be the first European country where Islamic extremists were successful in conducting a mass-casualty attack, but it is not the first where Al Qaeda planned a massacre (e.g., Al Qaeda’s mega-terrorism plan in France in 2000). Nor has its plans been confined to countries that participated in the Iraq war. The actual decision to target Spain’s trains was made in late 2003, but the 3/11 group formed in late 2001 after the Spanish authorities had dismantled the previous Al Qaeda network in the aftermath of 9/11. The Egyptian ringleader of the 3/11 network was arrested in Italy and confessed that the train bombings had taken two-and-a-half years to organize. Spain’s participation in the Iraq war created a propitious political environment for carrying out bombings that had been long in the works. In short, the war was the occasion not the cause of the bombing.
.......................
Professor Reinares argued that just as there was no causal link between the Iraq war and 3/11, so too is it a simplification to interpret the results of Spain’s 3/14 elections as a sign of softness in the face of terrorism and that they forced the Spanish withdrawal from Iraq. He noted that statements in the international media and by officials in the United States and elsewhere reflected this view. Reinares noted that even though 90% of Spaniards opposed the war, but the swing from the ruling Popular Party to the Socialists after 3/11 was only some 5-7%. He attributed that shift to the government’s disingenuous effort to blame ETA for the bombing prior to the election, even though evidence quickly pointed to Al Qaeda as the likely perpetrator. In addition, the Socialists’ pledge to withdraw the country’s forces from Iraq before 3/11 was motivated, in part, by the heavy-handed conduct of the Aznar government, which had committed Spanish forces to the U.S.-led intervention without putting it to a parliamentary vote. No one in Spain viewed Iraq as a major front in the war on terrorism. On the other hand, even as the Spanish government has withdrawn from Iraq, it has increased its military contingent in Afghanistan from 800 to 1800.


Excerpted from.
wwics.si.edu...

Even though 90% of the people in Spain opposed the war, the attack of 3/11 is what made the swing from "El Partido Popular" (Popular Party) to the Socialist party.

Anyways...we are getting off tangent here, this thread is not about 9/11 or 3/11. If you want to continue discussing this do it in one of the already existing threads in other forums.


---edited for errors---


[edit on 17-1-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
I don't think the Vatican, or the Pope, are going to be behind the war, even after this.


Papa was once a POW when he was younger.

[edit on 17-1-2005 by ancientsailor]



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
but it seems that they are indeed the ancient reminding inhabitants of the northern Iraq. So sad that they are part of the history in the area and that is not many left.


Actually they are the original people of all of Iraq, not just the northern areas, they moved to the northern regions because of the persecutions by extremist muslims and Saddam. Your welcomed btw.


[edit on 17-1-2005 by Muaddib]



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 04:31 PM
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Muaddib, are you like omniscient? You seem to be so sure of everything.

Maybe the ignorant ones are the ones who say "The facts speak for themselves" too easily.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 04:46 PM
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Your claim holds no ground unless you have proof....and obviously you are not even correctly informed as to what happened in Spain.


It was committed by the ETA. The skin colour and country of birth is irrelevant. The ETA is a Christian terrorist group.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by Simulacra
Iraqi insurgents. The most hated people in the world. If their action is to justify the word of God then why would they kidnap a man of god and threaten to kill him?

Because it is not their God. Remember, these are the same people that kidnapped Margaret Hassan.

What beheading in the last four years has not occurred in Iraq?

Daniel Pearl, for one.

from AceofBase
Bush's friends in Saudi Arabia behead people all the time
Why does Bush try to condemn Iran for human rights while he let's his Saudi friends off the hook?

Bush Bush Bush Bush Bush.:shk: Do you think the Saudis would not be beheading people if they had never met Bush? Give it a rest already.


However, will the Vatican negotiate with them? i doubt it and we will see a press release that this is in the hands of god at any rate. Perhaps they may be used as pressure against the United States, but the Roman Catholic churches influence has been dropping in the U.S. since the ongoing priest abuse scandal has come to light.

I agree with you - we can expect an "it is in the hands of God" response. The Vatican has been critical of the US' involvment in Iraq since the beginning. It will be interesting to see if this changes any minds over there.

No good can come from this. Ray Flynn, what do you think?



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by Simulacra
What beheading in the last four years has not occurred in Iraq?


Plenty happen all the time in Saudi Arabia, its part of their legal system there. Hell, even the US is fond of an execution now and then. What is your point?

If iraq is a breeding ground for terror, what makes you think that disbanding the country and stop naming the land Iraq and sending all its people to different nations help anything?

And for the record, I am not entirely condemning the actions taken by iraqi militants. The only criticism I would have is that they are lopping off the heads of civilians, not soldiers. However, if these civilians are aiding the occupation and trying to profit from it (truck drivers for oil companies, etc.) they deserve the same fate. When your country is occupied, you have the right to use ANY AND ALL MEANS to fight back. I wonder how far the patriots of the US would go to restore sovreignty if the US was invaded and occupied.

[edit on 17-1-2005 by General Zapata]



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 07:20 PM
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Bunch of off topic babble in this thread.

Yo who cares they kidnapped some Christian dude? He obviously wasnt sane to begin with, beleiving in Christianity and everything at such an old age.

If god exists he is a screwup, and he isnt going to help this guy.

But I bet most of the people who posted here saying "OMG THE IRAQIS HAVE DONE IT NOW" are no doubt pathetic christians themselves.

What is going to happen? The pope sends the Christian Army to Iraq? Pffff. LoL.

Oh no the Christian terrorists are going to beat up the muslim terrorists?

Hopefully both sides die.

POINTLESS NEWS ALERT!

[edit on 17-1-2005 by Ritual]



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 08:26 PM
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MOSUL/VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - The Iraqi Catholic archbishop of Mosul was kidnapped at gunpoint on Monday and the Vatican demanded his quick release and deplored what it branded an act of terrorism.
Vatican



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by Ritual
Bunch of off topic babble in this thread.

Yo who cares they kidnapped some Christian dude? He obviously wasnt sane to begin with, beleiving in Christianity and everything at such an old age.

If god exists he is a screwup, and he isnt going to help this guy.

But I bet most of the people who posted here saying "OMG THE IRAQIS HAVE DONE IT NOW" are no doubt pathetic christians themselves.

What is going to happen? The pope sends the Christian Army to Iraq? Pffff. LoL.

Oh no the Christian terrorists are going to beat up the muslim terrorists?

Hopefully both sides die.

POINTLESS NEWS ALERT!

[edit on 17-1-2005 by Ritual]


And the most ridiculous quote of the day goes to....drumrole please...


Mods, if your watching, you may wanna get this serious issue back on track. The childish name calling of an Archbishop is ignorrant no matter what your views on christians, catholics, or muslims may be.



posted on Jan, 17 2005 @ 08:45 PM
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It never ceases to amaze me that everything Iraqis do gives more credibility to the war on terror. Nothing they ever do makes Bush's war look bad. hmmm...Nah, it couldnt be...



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