POLITICS: Harrys Swastika Prompts Talk of EU Ban

Coming fresh on the hells of Britain's Prince Harry being seen wearing a Nazi costume at a party, the European Union is considering an outright ban on Nazi symbols. German in the European Parliament began urging for the ban following the release of pictures showing the costume. The banning would be part of EU wide rules to combat fascism and anti-Semitism



The problem with trying to ban these items, it gives the groups that actually worship such things a rally cry and can make the problem worse. The best way to combat this is education period. The better informed people are the better able they are to make informed decisions. While a ban will make those who never would have worn or displayed the stuff in the first place all warm and fuzzy, I doubt it will do anything for those who reeve or believe in the symbol.

That is absolutely ridiculous.

I am kind of baffled. Whether Grattini likes it or not people agree with Nazi ideology and they should have the right to express that. People have the right to believe in fascism and anti-semitism if they want to. The idea of suppressing fascism is no different from the idea of suppressing conservative ideology or socialist ideology or any other political belief system. I mean this would be almost like America banning the confederate flag or something. I hope Frattini doesn't voice the opinions of most of those in power in the EU.

I remember the last time hatrid of the Jews was forced underground in Europe. The world became a far different place about 12 years later. This is why you need freedom of speech -- it keeps the loonies out in the open where they can be observed instead of hiding underground where you have no idea what they're up to.

EDIT: Well, I don't remember it, just heard about it from MANY very sound sources.

[edit on 1-17-2005 by junglejake]

I think that this ban may have teeth. The knee jerk reaction seems to be uniform accross Europe esp given the prominence of the person (Prince Harry) that is the center of it. Its toally the wrong move and it is better faught with education.

More on this here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Oh thats nice! Now whenever Indiana Jones comes on public TV they'll have to blur out the Swastikas. Not to mention the swastika is important in many cultures and religions like Jainism. The Nazis just adopted it and perverted it!

See history1900s.about.com... for an outline of the Swastikas meaning. And here for more in depth www.locksley.com...

Harry Harry Harry this poor dumb kid is going to pay for this the rest of his life, Mark my words this will get very crazy beyond thought by the time it is over. This will get where something as remote as a lightning bolt will offend someone bacause some Nazi used it at one time. Watch the contributions from the royal family to the Simon W center for years to come just so they do not get blackmailed by them. What made him do something this stupid is beyond me. You do not want to even disagree with these groups or you will be called a raceist .

If the ban means that people cannot walk around wearing a swastika as a badge then I think it is a good idea.

I do not think the ban is intended to ban the symbol from books or media such as "movies".

I think they just want people to not be allowed to wear Nazi paraphernalia. I think that is fair enough.

Originally posted by 0951
More on this here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Excellent, just an FYI though, parallel posts can and do exist between ATS and ATSNN.

Originally posted by Kriz_4

I think they just want people to not be allowed to wear Nazi paraphernalia. I think that is fair enough.

It limits their freedom! What's next people wont be able to wear pins of their political parties or dress up as a devil at Halloween because it offends some people. If the prince wants to dress up as a Nazi let him, let anyone for that matter. That way the public can humiliate them like they are doing to Harry now.

If this ban goes ahead and if down the road the ban comes over to the other side of the pond, what is the U.S. House of Representatives going to do ? The place has Nazi symbology front and center:

www.prisonplanet.com...

brill

This whole thing is getting out of hand...yes the holocaust was horrible and shouldnt be forgot...but in the same breath...it was 50 + years ago...and you cant ban a political idealogy...no matter how unpopular....like it was stated earlier...that opens the doors to free speech issues...whats next...banning satanists and inverted crosses?...How bout banning the skull and crossbones because pirates arent nice guys...or donkeys because the democrats lost???....seriously...if we start here...where will it end?

I'm sure today's European Nazis are crossing their fingers on this one.

If they can get the EU to "crack down" on them, they will once again be "major players" instead of the pathetic little street gangs they currently are.

However this goes, fans of the EU should take note that this is the sort of mentality that is coming to your lives.

Just the fact it's even being discussed should serve as fair warning of what to expect in the upcoming "superstate".

just briefly on the Harry thing: who cares? I mean really, who gives a hoot whether Harry wore a nazi uniform to a dress up party? Surely there are worse things we have to worry about than this.

Onto the point: if this is to go through, it would be a sad day for the EU and for the world as a whole. Not only would it cause the Nazis to rally under their common flag and become much more of a threat, but it would violate basic rights of political speech.

Personally I just view this as further proof that the EU is taking political correctness over freedom as its defining charictaristic. The swastika was a positive symbol used by many culture for over three millenia before the nazi's ever existed. Before long all freedoms in the EU will be banned in the name of "diversity"

EEEEGGGGGHHHH!!!

Man, I had a big post about this. Then [poof], it was gone.

Anyway, the europeans, as far as I know, don't have a constitutional protection for their freedom of speech. Their governments can already outlaw whatever symbols they want.

There is some sense in this, since the nazis tried to overthrow the state and take over europe. There is no real reason to allow that political party to exist.

On the fasces, a few things. Mussolini's Fascist Party was not a Nazi party, and the fasces is not a Nazi Symbol. Mussolini choose the word fasces apparently because there is an italian word that sounds like 'worker' or 'peasant' or somesuch that sounds very much like the word fasces.

When the Founders of the US looked for an ancient model of their new government, they didn't look to athenian democracy so much as the Roman Republic. Thus Washington became the american Cinncinatus, and the fasces became a symbol of the american state.

The bundle of rods represent the components of the state, unified. The axe represents the power of the state over peoples lives. Apparently at one point the axe was eliminated, thus meaning that the citizens couldn't be arbitrarily punished. Supposedly and actual fasces could be used to beat with the rods and kill with the axe to. Fasces are carried by Lictors. In one famous story, a group of invaders approached rome, or at least a legionary army. THe lictors assembled a line, carrying their fasces, and the invaders would not cross, because they knew what crossing the line would mean.

Anyway, there are many uses of the fasces in american architecture and symbology and coinage.

this is an etruscan fasces, so the symbol is older than rome itself. The Estruscans were conglomerated into a confederacy of independant city states. Perhaps thats where the symbology originates.


This is a reproduction fasces,


Some would say the bundle of arrows in the eagle claw is a fasces. THe eagle is certainly a roman symbol too.


Here is a lictor carrying the symbol of state and a senator. No accident that the US has a Senate.


The badge of the LAPD has an abstract fasces inspired border


Here is a page on fasces in flags around the world

atlasgeo.span.ch...

Additionally, you'll find the symbol all over france and switzerland, even tho they aren't fascists. Its a symbol, an ancient one, and over all a good one. Similarly, the swatstika is an ancient symbol. Some of the first carvings made by man are birds, with swatstikas adorning the wings. Its very old, and can be used by anyone for their own purposes.

Here is a pin of the american fascist movement

The symbol can be used anyway by anyone.

Thank you very much for that education!

To start, I've been in Italy many times over the years and have some friends and an aunt living there. In Italy Fascism is not dead like in Germany, and the Fasces Symbol can be found in graffity everywhere. So this symbol is still carried proudly. And everyone seems to forget that a strong Nation with the most modern army on earth at that time lost a war and went down in ruins. No matter how you look at it. The Swastika Nazi-Style is the sign of the loser in WW-II.
The Itallians and their Fasces jumped ship before total destruction and by sacrificing their Duce they saved his heritage and symbols rather untainted.

Anyway...

I was looking for a few WW-II photo's with Italian Fascists carrying the Fasces symbol to show it together with a recent photo I came across, to a friend and proof a point I was trying to make that way.

And I came across this discussion, which basically comes down to what I was trying to proof by photo comparisson.

But the focus of your discussion was on coins and small uniform decorations.

Take a look at this photo and the just to make absolutely sure, the blow-up section.
What you think about it is up to you.

This is a newspaper photo of War-President Bush giving his State of the Union speech.



for those who missed the point:



This is not symbols on stamps or coins, this is much worse (I think)

[edit on 7-2-2005 by Darkland]