Oregon standoff: Case of possible misconduct by FBI in LaVoy Finicum shooting now before grand jury

a reply to: Boadicea

In this case, just one small part of it.

The Bundites were arrested and charged based on their actions. Just as any alleged lawbreaker is. They are being held because the courts have determined that they pose a flight risk.

They will be provided due process. It is the responsibility of their counsel to assure that is the case. Just as it is the responsibility of those defending the FBI agents before the Grand Jury.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Boadicea

In this case, just one small part of it.

The Bundites were arrested and charged based on their actions. Just as any alleged lawbreaker is. They are being held because the courts have determined that they pose a flight risk.

They will be provided due process. It is the responsibility of their counsel to assure that is the case. Just as it is the responsibility of those defending the FBI agents before the Grand Jury.

Not sure there council can do anu thing with it. Since the state police had there report as well. That's how they knew the FBI report was wrong. If you have a case you don't try to cop a plea. So doubt anything will change.

a reply to: Phage

They will be provided due process. It is the responsibility of their counsel to assure that is the case.

Wow... really? Seriously??? It is first and foremost the absolute responsibility of GOVERNMENT to ensure all defendants receive due process.

Just as it is the responsibility of those defending the FBI agents before the Grand Jury.

Wrong again. There are no defense attorneys at a grand jury hearing. Only the prosecution.

a reply to: dragonridr

If you have a case you don't try to cop a plea.

Defendants who cannot afford to fight the full power and resources of the government have to cop a plea all the time. And government knows it and takes full advantage of it. It's sometimes called "policing for profit."

Charts: Why You're in Deep Trouble If You Can't Afford a Lawyer

a reply to: Boadicea

It is first and foremost the absolute responsibility of GOVERNMENT to ensure all defendants receive due process.

Yeah. The court specifically. But the attorneys are the ones who really make it happen.

Wrong again. There are no defense attorneys at a grand jury hearing. Only the prosecution.

Yeah. Again, it's the court. And in this case the court allowed the memo to be released to the Bundites. Because their attorneys insisted.

The FBI may have screwed up by altering the story of how the shooting went down, but I do think the Oregon troopers were within their rights to fire upon him. Let the Grand Jury do their duty and see how it shakes out.


As an aside, Finicum wasn't a saint.

The FBI says Finicum accompanied Keebler last October when scouting out the BLM facility in Arizona. Finicum was shot and killed by authorities during a Jan. 26 traffic stop that led to Bundy's arrest.

This Keebler fellow was arrested 2 days ago trying to bomb a BLM cabin in Arizona.
link

a reply to: Olivine

Keebler traveled to the Arizona cabin Tuesday night with militia members and undercover FBI employees. An inactive explosive was placed against the door and Keebler was handed a remote detonation device and pushed it several times, according to the FBI.

Dang it! Wut's wrong with this thing? Where's the kaboom?

a reply to: Phage

And in this case the court allowed the memo to be released to the Bundites. Because their attorneys insisted.

Because it's the law.

Attorneys ask for lots of things they don't get... and attorneys may even insist and still not get what they want.

The got it because it's the law.

a reply to: Olivine

The FBI may have screwed up by altering the story of how the shooting went down, but I do think the Oregon troopers were within their rights to fire upon him.

"Altering the story?" They LIED. They gave FALSE EVIDENCE.

But based upon what we know now, I would agree that the state officers had reasonable cause to believe their lives were in danger (because they were -- thanks to the deadman's roadblock they were manning).

But it may also be shown that unnecessary, unwarranted and illegal actions by the feds created that perception and/or reality, so while the state officers acted within the law and reason, the feds did not. In which case, the feds are liable (criminally and/or civilly) for the wrongful death of LaVoy.

As an aside, Finicum wasn't a saint.

Of course not. He's not even Catholic

This Keebler fellow was arrested 2 days ago trying to bomb a BLM cabin in Arizona.

Hmmm... so if LaVoy is "guilty-by-association" for an act committed after his death by an associate/friend/whatever, will you likewise condemn all FBI agents if even just one is proven to have lied?

And from your link:

Keebler traveled to the Arizona cabin Tuesday night with militia members and undercover FBI employees. An inactive explosive was placed against the door and Keebler was handed a remote detonation device and pushed it several times, according to the FBI.

I'm betting the feds thought this whole thing up, provided the "bomb" and even drove him up there!!!

And guess what? I still have more respect for some guy willing to blow up an empty building to fight govt tyranny than dirty feds that will trap and kill a man in cold blood in our name. The former is a misguided fool; the latter is evil.

originally posted by: Excallibacca
a reply to: Boadicea

Let's just hope it doesn't turn into another Lon Horiuchi, charges dropped situation.

Which time? Randy Weaver's property or the Branch Davidian compound?

Even I would still recognize the difference between a sniper kill and the Finicum ambush.

originally posted by: Phage
The Bundites were arrested and charged based on their actions.

Bundites ... every time I see that in print it cracks me up.

a reply to: Boadicea

The FBI admitted in open court today at Bill Keebler's hearing, that LaVoy was never even there and the day they said he was. He was actually at a rodeo!

The day after the arrest the grand jury convened against the 2 FBI agents in the murder of LaVoy.

They undoubtedly are planning to use that to try to make it okay for the murder.

Also, the FBI created the idea, built the bombs, test detonated, then planted them.

Do you really think Bill Keebler did this?

a reply to: LorPotts

Wow! Thanks for that. I haven't had time to check for new the last few days, so I appreciate the heads up

I figured the Feds set the whole thing up -- pretty much standard procedure these days.

a reply to: Boadicea
You don't care about a source?

originally posted by: Boadicea
unnecessary, unwarranted and illegal actions by the feds

What unnecessary action exactly?
What unwarranted action exactly?
What illegal actions exactly?

originally posted by: LorPotts
in the murder of LaVoy.

What murder are you on about? Lavoy was not murdered!

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Boadicea
You don't care about a source?

A source? If you're talking about the last post I replied to, I'll look for my own source when I have time to check for more news about it. I got the main gist. That's enough for now. I'm not writing a thread about it... I don't need to "prove" anything.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Boadicea
unnecessary, unwarranted and illegal actions by the feds

What unnecessary action exactly?
What unwarranted action exactly?
What illegal actions exactly?

Exactly? You want me to explain "exactly" what we do not know yet? Sorry, I'm not psychic.

But it may also be shown that unnecessary, unwarranted and illegal actions by the feds created that perception and/or reality, so while the state officers acted within the law and reason, the feds did not. In which case, the feds are liable (criminally and/or civilly) for the wrongful death of LaVoy.

We'll have to wait and see.