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What if....Welfare

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posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 09:14 AM
a reply to: DBCowboy

Hitting the lottery is always a first choice option. Barring that selling a million dollar idea, which is more likely.

My proposed idea is more of an arm twisting to get people to work while at the same time giving a helping hand to those that do work and need it.

An increase in minimum wage only makes for a larger tax collection and actually discourages job seeking by those with less marketable skill sets after multiple rejections.

Steady employment with good attendance is marketable. It can lead to bigger and better things. But if level of achievement (house, groceries, utilities) are covered by not working. Then only aspirations for a better house and better food or car are motivators.

posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 09:21 AM
a reply to: Ahabstar

Culturally, work (having a job) is being downplayed.

I'm old enough to remember hen the goal was to work, have a job, succeed. Now?

Work has become a 4-letter word in some circles.

At the same time, welfare was something that used to be seen as something negative. Welfare was something you participated in if you failed.

Now it is seen as a viable career alternative.

So just changing welfare amounts, time limits, etc, will not work unless you also change the social acceptance that welfare is seen as.

posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 09:59 AM
a reply to: DBCowboy

I think it's the mentality that hurts America, not the numbers. We spend a lot, lot more on pointless wars, unjustified corporate welfare, we lose a lot more money to people like Clinton using charities to dodge taxes than we pay out in benefits. Benefits is just one of the symptoms, one faucet to look at.

We have generations of people voting Democrat every year for few other reasons than these benefits. I don't mind which party someone votes for, but when the main reason is to just keep being lazy, I'm not okay with that, and I'm not okay with any party encouraging that.

posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 10:01 AM
a reply to: deadlyhope

Politicians have to create a government-dependent class so they can justify their existence.

So any real reform is, alas, something we'll probably never see.

posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 10:05 AM
a reply to: DBCowboy

There's a reason work is now a four letter word. Now days, it's a job that has a high chance of not paying the bills, or putting enough food on the table. Now days unions exist less than ever - everyone seems so anti union while not realizing the Reagan Era had drastically more unionization.

Not to mention there's just a shift in mentality. Everyone looks out for themselves, not for each other. Modern unions are demonized because they prey on workers and companies for their own benefit, not helping a thing.

This mentality extends further though. Less employers are proud to provide secure, reasonably paying jobs with promotion opportunities, more employers are seeking to pay as little as possible for a convenience niche, rather than a quality one.

McDonald's is not the tastiest food there is - but it's fast, convenient, cheap. Consumers and employers follow this path the furthest they can. Capitalism has turned into conveniencism, has turned into consumers not caring.

A capitalistic society with both unethical consumers and employers is bound to fail.

posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 10:10 AM
a reply to: DBCowboy


What we need is ethical men to replace those in office...

An ethical politician is like saying tasty tar, though.

posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 10:48 AM
I can tell the OP NEVER experience poverty - the may have had a hard time or two but they don't know poverty.

Welfare DOES NOT provide a nice standard of living: you live in crappy housing, eat bad food and usually get the bad doctors.

But it does provide very basic needs.

Here's the key problem......


So what is your plan going to do? Just provide food but make people sleep in the streets?

edit on June 25th 2016 by Daughter2 because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 11:13 AM

originally posted by: Ahabstar
a reply to: Christosterone

I didn't want to address race but I can tell you that the majority of our riders are single white, female, 30-50 age range. On Sundays that number is skewed to 20-40 age range and is mostly to and from methadone clinics for daily matainance fixes. The second most common rider on Sundays are MR/DD to and from work with a 60-40 ratio of females to males.

I just recently became aware of that program. I knew my mother was eligible, as she is missing one hip, but I had no idea how it worked. I recently fractured my foot, as I have mentioned on ATS and was terrified in regard to the amount of doctor's appointments facing me, regarding the foot and regarding health problems I already have. Short of finding thousands to build a ramp and a wheelchair and wheeling myself to the bus stop, or spending hundreds a week on taxis, I was at a loss until I found this program on the internet. My insursnce contracts out to one company who contracts to local cab companies. I applaud you for having this job.

In regard to welfare, cash benefits in most states are cut off after 4 years. Medicaid has been easier to get, though and becomes 'managed' by private insurance companies which apparently saves the state money. The Dental benefits are like living in the middle ages. Many states recently lost a 'waiver' for snap benefits that allowed adults who were out of work to receive snap benefits for more than 3 months out of the year. One must work 80 hours a month or a total of work/training/or in kind work, like an internship or volunteering to receive food benefits and that benefit is reduced by income. Very few states have kept the waiver and a few counties within states kept the waiver due to how bad their ecomomy still is.

From what I have seen, welfare has become less and not more, with restrictions and time limits added over the years.

If one were to reduce the benefit amount to give to more people, you would just have more people barely making ends meet. Employers should be paying workers so they do not qualify for food benefits or cash benefits.

Cash benefits are tiny, too. I once applied, but decided to just not take them. They offered me $116 per month for myself and my child. In return, I would have to apply for every job they sent me to, in a 20 mile radius, no matter how little it paid. I have applied for a job with the county multiple times..every time I have gotten Heating help or recertified snap benefits. My packet comes with an application. I have never been called by them, though I am well qualified.

It is too late now, I applied for disability last August for various reasons. While I await the wheels of the government to turn slowly, I do some computer research jobs from home as an administrative assistant to a few local people.

In regard to the methadone maintenance patients, you may feel there should be less of them receiveing the benefit of a ride, but I would hope for more of them. A lot you don't see are somewhere dying. A close friend of mine died of a heroin overdose. The son of one of my close friends is a functioning heroin addict. Many of us by now kow someone like that. I feel much better knowing someone like you is taking them to get something safer and they are alive. I had no idea rides for them existed.

posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 11:17 AM
The vast majority of recipients are the working poor, the disabled, and the elderly. This notion that people are living high on the hog on welfare, is ridiculous.

Minimum/low wage jobs USED to be for high school kids, but that's not the case anymore. Now we have adults, working two or three minimum/low wage jobs, only to still have too much month, at the end of their money.

The problem I have with this, is that these jobs are just as important as any other. Not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer or a CEO. Someone has to take out the trash, clean up the spill in aisle 4, scrub the toilets in the bathrooms everyone is up in arms about, deliver the pizza you are too lazy to go get yourself, put your money on pump 5, brew the coffee you get everyday on your way to work, stock the store shelves with your favorite items, and wait on you on date night in restaurants they themselves are unable to afford to attend.

These jobs are important to everyone's everyday and should provide a basic living wage.

Did you know that the lowest paid worker in a hospital can bring the entire operation to a halt? No clean rooms, means no movement. If the housekeepers are so important to the operation, why are they among the lowest paid?

I think that before we think of lowering/taking away assistance programs, we need to look at corporate welfare, and take away from that, instead.

posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 11:35 AM
a reply to: Daughter2

Actually I lived for oh about 10 months without electricity and meals were a packet of ramen noodles every two or three days. Stretched $10 that a guy gave because he felt bad about not being able to hire me into one relatively nice meal and two weeks of ramen with a can of peas. Yummy.

What changed? Working two jobs because both were offered within a month of each other. Busted my ass for two years doing that. And what fewer knew was that my "remote locations" during the radios shows was so I could power the equipment and use a public hotspot for access.

First purchase after working was a two pound bag of peanuts in the shell. Yeah it was only $3 but it was luxurious as steak dinner.

As for the roof over my head, cashed in my 401k. Retirement means nothing if you won't live to see it. Grand total taxpayer funded benefits during that time was zero point zero...because I did not qualify for anything and all food banks were 20 miles away.

I got jack and had to like it. Difference being was that I didn't stay there. And four years later, I am up for consideration for a job that pays twice what I am making now. If I get that, I might just buy a modest house outright in 3-4 years if I keep saving my nickels.

Poverty, I know it. I know how fast the rug can be pulled out from under you. I also know about not giving up as well. Guess you thought I was stuck with a flat tire between paychecks or something?

posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 12:30 PM
First you need to figure out what you consider welfare. Benefits are already dispersed by states so all kinds of rules and regulation change from state to state. What we do know is most people who get some type of government assistance have jobs. And we also know that most people who qualify for one kind of assistance then become in eligible for others. So if you get food stamps you longer qualify for housing assistance etc. Ironicly the people I have know that have gotten welfare or public assistance have mostly been active duty military or people with two or three jobs.

posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 12:34 PM
a reply to: Ahabstar

Won't work because there isn't enough available jobs for people to work that pay enough to live on.

The second problem is when you get a job all benefits are cut.

posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 04:40 PM

originally posted by: Ahabstar
a reply to: Daughter2

Actually I lived for oh about 10 months without electricity and meals were a packet of ramen noodles every two or three days. ..............

First purchase after working was a two pound bag of peanuts in the shell. Yeah it was only $3 but it was luxurious as steak dinner.

I'm going to call BS on this one......If you lived 10 months on just Ramen every few days, you would be close to death and certainly not healthy enough to work two jobs...

Plus you mentioned the tidbit about your housing was supplied by your 401K. Ask anyone who dealt with long-term hunger. Shelter is AFTER food. BS about buying the peanuts.... you would have bought a one-way ticket to the food bank by then.

posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 05:28 PM
a reply to: Daughter2

Call it whatever helps you sleep at night. But in every survival situation food is your last concern. You better have shelter and water first if you want to survive.

You can go up to three weeks without food or three days without water. Granted you won't do much other than sit around.

One job was delivering pizzas on the weekend for tips. Instant cash fixed a lot of problems immediately, electricity for example.
edit on 25-6-2016 by Ahabstar because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 10:32 PM

originally posted by: daryllyn

If the housekeepers are so important to the operation, why are they among the lowest paid?


It isn't about importance, it is about supply and demand. In this case, the supply of people that can clean up hospital rooms outweighs the demand meaning that they will get paid less.

posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 10:46 PM
a reply to: Ahabstar

But what if the GOP suggested a major reduction of benefits (say 30%)

1. Gov't does nothing except what is best for the Oligarchs and highest bidders.

2. The GOP and DNC are one in the same and controlled by the same Oligarchs.

3. Welfare is not about helping people but rather consumerism. They take money from those in the middleclass that make enough to save on the side and give it to those who have little and aren’t part of the consumer group. Not because they care for them, but because it makes more consumers.

4. The GOP has had many chances to stop gov't waste and welfare programs and they have done nothing .

5. The welfare system they have now is the solution they wanted and hence hasn't changed and wont change until we control conflict of interest in DC.

posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 03:22 AM
a reply to: Ahabstar

here we go another overly simplistic analogy of why people are not in the workforce.

From what I read, Americas homeless population is about 45 million. Because of the way statistics and the way wealth distribution works, in all countries, this fact means that at least this many and highly likely double that number of people, are one month of less, away from homeless. This means that about one third to one half of the US population is homeless or near homeless.

But hay, lets just ignore all that and take the easy way out and say all those people are just plain lazy. lets take the easy way out and say that none of them want a home and none of them want to work. Lets just ignore that fully half of 25-year old Americans live in their childhood rooms in their parents’ homes, according to Former United States Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy under President Reagan, Paul Craig Roberts.

Funny how the people who make these kinds of statements never talk about corporate welfare. Is that because the man on the TV has not told them about corporate welfare therefore they dont know about corporate welfare?

Does it ever occur to these people who, it would appear, have their views determined for them by the media, that the reason their minds are focused on welfare for individuals, is for the very purpose of supporting the transfer of welfare away from individuals to corporations.

Here is some questions for such people. If you lost your form of income how long could you afford to support yourself using nothing more than your own savings? How long would you last? How long would it take to replace that money through savings from your job or form of income.

Does your income rely, to any extent, on the welfare money spent by those who are on welfare?

How many jobs are dependent on welfare money? How long would your job last if there was no monthly economic stimulus package spent into the economy each month by bouncing it through the bank accounts of those on welfare?

Each time I walk through a shopping centre I ask myself that question and I cant help but think that about a third of the shops would close and about one half of the workforce in that shopping centre would be out of a job within a month if the spending of welfare money in that shopping centre ceased over night.

posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 12:05 PM
a reply to: Ahabstar

Wow, now I know you really don't know what's it's like to be poor.

Being poor in the burbs or the city isn't like a girl scout survival camping trip........

Why do you think you see people live in their cars and sleep on the street? Most of the money is going towards food.

And in your near world record feat of near starvation, as you claim, you let slip two little facts:

1. You had a savings
2. You had a car

Your savings provided your housing and your car lead to a job.

You do realize most WORKING poor today cannot afford to save or buy a car? Pull those two facts from your little "poverty" story and your world would fall apart.

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