Media in full spin mode: "British regret voting BREXIT".

According to the media, the majority of Leave voters were old men who like to shake their fist at clouds and start every sentence with an anecdote about the war, and semi-literate unemployed chavs complaining about "those darkies coming over here and taking our jobs".

Utter nonsense.

Older voters were certainly more likely to vote Leave. The people who are now saying they should have been disenfranchised are (deliberately or not) ignoring one major factor - the older population remember life before the EU. They also remember some of the terrible strife we faced (because life certainly wasn't wine and roses in Britain leading up to the 70s) and can compare it to the evolution of the EU as we now know it. Surely these people are better placed than anyone else to be making an informed decision?

Even if you removed entire swathes of the population, it would not result in a massive swing. The last estimate I saw was that, if you assumed every person over the age of 65 voted, and that they voted in favour of Leave, and you then subtracted that number from the vote count, Leave would still have won. It might be that closer calculations show a narrow Remain victory, but the point stands - the older population were not responsible for the Leave victory. They certainly helped it, but that still left millions of people voting to Leave.

I am very happy to say that I voted to Leave, and I am very happy to say that I am thrilled with the result.

I'm not part of the voter profile that Remain are claiming. I'm in my 30's, very well educated, gainfully employed, and with a foreign national wife and two beautiful daughters.

I didn't vote on the basis of immigration. I actually don't know many people who did. The UK has always been a country of immigration and we will continue to be such a country. The immigration issue really boils down to having final say over who comes across our borders. Even though we currently (tenses here will be tricky as, despite the leave vote, we're still in the EU for the immediate future) have more border control than most, that would inevitably be eroded if we remained.

This actually brings us to the core principle for myself and many of the other people I have discussed this with. Sovereignty and self-determination. I voted to Leave because I believe that our national identity and self-determination far outweighs anything being offered by the EU. I believe that we have the capacity and the ability to grow and prosper economically, and that our independent status gives us far more flexibility and agility in the long term. Even now, a few days later, we see the change in tone from threats and uncertainty, to overtures of trade and cooperation, many of which come from the very countries threatening sanctions and calamity if we left.

Certainly I believe we can do better economically and socially than if we remained chained to Europe. Golden handcuffs are still handcuffs, whichever way to try to sell them.

I also believe (and this is shared by some, though not all) that the EU is a doomed enterprise. What started off as a reasonable idea many decades ago has evolved into something that will implode. The closer we are to that implosion, the more damage we will sustain. I voted to Leave because I believe it will give us the agility to ride the shockwave and minimise the damage.

The next few years may well be very rough. I accept that, because I made my decision on a long-term basis. The EU is a band-aid that must inevitably be ripped off, whether now or when it implodes in the future, and I would rather deal with that pain now while my children are still young enough for me to shield them from the worst of it.

The future is not determined by bureaucrats in Brussels, it is determined by us. The future is what we will make of it, nothing more, nothing less.

"Leave" was the correct choice. No regrets.

a reply to: Phage

I am rarely on the fence.

The splinters get lodged in my butt hair.

Well if another referendum is called and Parliament refuse to accept this one then all I can say is I'm going to start a Petition as well, because last saturday I didn't win the lottery and I think that unfair so I want everyone to sign my petition to Camelot as we can now do that in the UK if we don't get what we want. Isn't that great?

The Leave campaign is wrong to say there'll be a 2nd referendum if we vote to remain in the EU. This is a referendum and not a neverendum.

— David Cameron (@David_Cameron) May 17, 2016

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
Well if another referendum is called and Parliament refuse to accept this one then all I can say is I'm going to start a Petition as well, because last saturday I didn't win the lottery and I think that unfair so I want everyone to sign my petition to Camelot as we can now do that in the UK if we don't get what we want. Isn't that great?

There will be no re referendum and no undoing of resignations, the die has been set.. Sour grapes will hopefully be set aside and we will move onward strongly.. At the moment most of the establishment, Press and media are suffering from delayed bitterness and they must " GTFO it "

a reply to: EvillerBob

Thank you for your honest and reasonable explanation for the way you voted.

I don't think we should be stereotyping people by the way they voted nor judging them on it either, but unfortunately this is the reality.

We should be respecting the fact that democracy has taken place and that this was not a decision made for us by the privileged, Etonian toffs who have no idea what life is like outside the stuffy parliament in which they reside.

a reply to: EvillerBob

Thank you for your honest and reasonable explanation for the way you voted.

I don't think we should be stereotyping people by the way they voted nor judging them on it either, but unfortunately this is the reality.

We should be respecting the fact that democracy has taken place and grateful that this was not a decision made for us by the privileged, Etonian toffs who have no idea what life is like outside the stuffy parliament in which they reside.

I do not regret it, my neighbours , family and friends do not regret it, we are all Scottish. Is it more propaganda being peddled for the population who know no better?

They say Nigel Farage is going back on his word for NHS funding. My understanding is that he said the NHS would get money, only after we left the EU completely and stopped paying them . That is where the money was coming from, what would have been paid to the EU. That will take time.

Democracy has spoken , the same for Scotland (I am Scottish) I do not want another referendum, we have already voted and we were told it would not happen again for a considerable amount of time. I wish the SNP would just leave well alone and get on with the UK.

If they want unrest then they knew how to go about it cause that is what has occured, certainly in the cities.

The same media were the ones that put Nigel Farage in front spot for months and months, maybe years and gave him free reign to say what he wanted. And now they wonder why the population voted to leave. Farage must have been on Question time more times than anyone else and he is not part of the government, he leads a small party with one or two MP's, he even resigned one time and then somehow unresigned.

a reply to: gladtobehere

I know I regret that the British voted for Brexit - if I had known they were serious I would have started whining about this way earlier

But, there's just no fixing stupid I guess. Our shot at winning the political Darwin award is coming right up!

Wonder how we'll do...

:-)

First things first, full disclosure. I am not in favor of the Brexit. I think Britain has taken a terrible pratfall. There is some speculation that it might yet be undone, but that idea seems like wishful thinking to me, even if legal avenues for it exist.

There is a lot of confusion about the Brexit. The how and why of it are being intensively looked at by many commentators, both political and economic.

In each case the potential ramifications of Brexit are extraordinary.

For a good discussion of it go to tarpley.net where it is discussed in this week's episode of World Crisis Radio. Webster Tarpley believes that Brexit is a terrible idea and has a strong feeling that the referendum itself was instigated by leading banksters from the City of London seeking to escape onerous banking regulations in the EU.

tarpley.net...

That may or may not be true, but it is certain that such people would have been consulted, at least, by David Cameron before he made the campaign promise, during the last general election in the UK, to hold a referendum on EU membership.

Cameron obviously wanted to remain, himself, but the referendum exacerbated divisions within the Tory party and produced leaders of the Brexit movement, much to his chagrin, I should think.

Whatever the truth of the matter is, it was believed from the outset that the results of the referendum vote would be very close. This is an indicator that the referendum should never have been held before prominent complaints about membership in the EU, coming from the public, were dealt with and problems solved, by the Cameron government.

Not to proceed in that way was a colossal neglect of due diligence on Cameron's part.

Having said that, it should be pointed out that this very close vote could very easily have gone the other way, but for one glaring issue. Most voters are not interested in, and don't understand macro economic strategy, even when it hits them in the pocketbook.

What they do understand, though, is waves of newcomers who are perceived (rightly or wrongly) to be trouble makers. I think that, but for numerous stories of "sharia neighborhoods" and street confrontations with bothersome and sometimes menacing Muslim immigrants, this vote would definitely have been to remain within the EU. I am convinced that the immigration issue was what got the vote out, and over the top, in favor of Brexit.

This is an issue that Cameron could, with some abrasion certainly, have reduced to manageable size. He didn't and is now paying the price.

In the worst case, Scotland leaves the UK, Northern Ireland leaves the UK, Argentina takes another crack at the Falklands, Spain takes Gibraltar and the UK is left greatly diminished and trying to reinvent itself. Youth, who have started to consider themselves European, are devastated.

I don't think there was any problem that the UK had with the EU that couldn't have been solved by a smart, aggressive government, within the EU. Now the EU is scrambling to reinvent itself. Will they create an organization that the Brexit folks could live with? Will the UK try to get back into the EU? Time will tell.

originally posted by: ipsedixitI am convinced that the immigration issue was what got the vote out, and over the top, in favor of Brexit.

The failure of the Remain campaign to understand this point is probably why they lost.

Immigration is not the issue, just a symptom of an issue. The issue is the gradual erosion of our right to choose for ourselves.

Cameron did have the opportunity to go to Europe and smooth things out. There were much publicised negotiations, in fact. The outcome of those negotiations was, essentially, the EU telling Cameron "tough luck, you'll get what we give you and be glad".

Immigration didn't swing the vote. Every word that was spat from the mouths of people like Juncker, Shulz, and even HRH King Obama, those were the things that swung the vote the most.

“Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?,”
- Jean-Claude Juncker

a reply to: EvillerBob

EU ministers have already met in France and made noises about rolling back that sort of arrogation of power. It is a pity, to me, that it took a Brexit to get them to see reason. The EU should have taken two or three (or more) generations of peace and prosperity to allow the advantages of the EU to really sink in, before even considering an attempt at "nation building".

a reply to: ipsedixit

I think Britain has taken a terrible pratfall.

Having lived most of my life under the EU I disagree , I think we've taken back control of both our destiny and identity.

That may or may not be true, but it is certain that such people would have been consulted, at least, by David Cameron before he made the campaign promise, during the last general election in the UK, to hold a referendum on EU membership.

Cameron announced his plan for a referendum in 2013 as a way to unite his party , backbencers were unhappy with both his leadership and the coalition he'd entered into.

I don't think there was any problem that the UK had with the EU that couldn't have been solved by a smart, aggressive government, within the EU.

We've tried for years but they only throw crumbs , change only comes if it suits Germany.

Will they create an organization that the Brexit folks could live with? Will the UK try to get back into the EU? Time will tell.

Probably not , the calls will grow for democracy in other members states , the disaffected and disillusioned people of Europe have seen what we have done and will want it for themselves.
We are not the only country in the EU who wanted out , given the chance others will follow.

originally posted by: gortex

the disaffected and disillusioned people of Europe have seen what we have done and will want it for themselves.

I acknowledge your point of view on this, of course, but I don't think anyone yet knows how this will settle, a year from now, a decade from now. There are always people who will follow anyone over a cliff. Some might want to wait to hear the sound of the landing before they jump, though.

People who say that Britain was self sufficient for hundreds of years and therefore has no worry would be right on if Brexit were a rollback of the clock of history. That Britain, the self sufficient world beater, essentially vanished by the end of WW1.

After that we had posturing empty shell Britain. Thankfully posturing empty shell Britain is gone, but I think there are still some of those pretensions left. Enough to say, "Surely we can dispense with cooperative team player Britain and fend for ourselves."

We'll see.

a reply to: ipsedixit

We , the people of Europe pay for this nonsense.


The corruption of the EU and over regulation of peoples lives is what has brought us to this point.
It's a club for friends and family of politicians to go off to , earn lots of money and claim unaccountable expenses , a prime example is our EU Commissioner , Lord Hill , is there by appointment of David Cameron , far be it for me to suggest his appointment has anything to do with the fact they're mates and went to school together , ex politicians are also put out to stud there.

We are best out , it won't be painless but I and millions of my fellow Brits think that is a price worth paying for being able to hold our lawmakers to account and taking the future of our country back from the faceless bureaucrats of Brussels.

a reply to: gortex

I don't think there is any doubt anywhere, whether within the EU or outside it, that it has been poorly managed. From this distance, it looked like an example of what happens when political science dweebs are let off the reservation (university) and out into the real world. It was an organization full to the brim with superfluous people doing "busywork".

It should be pared back severely. Some social initiatives that it produced for the UK were worthwhile, like a minimum wage. The immigration stuff has been a disaster. I hope they can fix it and be reasonable and realistic, appropriate to the time we live in.

originally posted by: ipsedixit
a reply to: EvillerBob

EU ministers have already met in France and made noises about rolling back that sort of arrogation of power. It is a pity, to me, that it took a Brexit to get them to see reason. The EU should have taken two or three (or more) generations of peace and prosperity to allow the advantages of the EU to really sink in, before even considering an attempt at "nation building".

Sure, and we could have been a valued member state of the Third Reich as well, which could have seen Europe recreated as a true economic and military superpower in the post-war era, with a strong technical and industrial heart, world-leading innovation, and a pre-made colonial empire ripe for exploitation.

We didn't want it then, and we don't want Merkel's Fourth Reich now. Screw the lot of them.

originally posted by: ipsedixit
a reply to: gortex
...Some social initiatives that it produced for the UK were worthwhile, like a minimum wage...

You offer up the minimum wage as a "worthwhile" initiative? That's an entirely separate and very contentious debate.