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Socialism, Capitalism, Communism - Doesn't matter.

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posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 08:34 PM
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There's been a long term #-storm this election season of people arguing which social/economic system is the very best, and what we should aim for.

It really doesn't matter.

Capitalism is not ever coming back.
Socialism as some desire it will never be implemented.

How do we imagine that our next presidential vote will change things way beyond the control of the president themselves?

We need to go away from fiat currency, central/world banking, the federal reserve.
We need to go away from career politicians.
We need to do away with corporate subsidies, lobbyists.
We need to get government as far away from business as possible in general - Medicine included.
We need to make a far easier tax system and get rid of the IRS - Consumer/Flat tax could easily do this.
We need to re-iterate the constitution.
We need a lot of things....

No one is promising those changes.

Perhaps great minds could get together and figure things out, but I don't think that will happen.

Nope.

You'll just have all men in DC screwing the entire nation while patting themselves on the back.

What do you fellow members think? Can this nation change? Will progress be made?

-Deadlyhope




posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 08:48 PM
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originally posted by: deadlyhope
What do you fellow members think? Can this nation change? Will progress be made?

-Deadlyhope

As long as there are more than one human on Earth world peace beteeen humans will never happen. This is why liberal progressives fail. People have always been about themselves no matter how much they proclaim otherwise (Hillary, Bill, Obama, Bushes, etc...)



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 08:53 PM
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a reply to: Orionx2

Definitely not a partisan thing IMO.

Bush introduced the Patriot Act - An act to strip more rights than almost any other bill ever brought into existence.

Ted Cruz definitely is as slimey as anyone - He pledges allegiance to the same damn investment banking company as Hillary.

But that's just a couple examples - All people on all sides are in it for themselves



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 09:00 PM
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I am not a supporter of socialism, but it is very misunderstood, and I sometime can't help myself from correcting people who speak of all socialist nations as lenin/trotsky models

I am biased as a norwegian american, but they have some great ideas. They have a 60/40 split of ownership of the oil industry and because of that they enjoy a "rainy day fund" the equivalent of $1,000,000 per Norwegian

As an american, I get a share of our debt at $59,787

oops, its up to $59,789



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 09:01 PM
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In my opinion, the only way to make politics honest and fair is to get money out of it. Money incentives it and turns politicians into slaves for the highest bidder.

Better yet, keep money in politics but make the incentive(s) amount to what a politician does to benefit society and not corporations or wealthy individuals.



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 09:02 PM
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originally posted by: Orionx2

originally posted by: deadlyhope
What do you fellow members think? Can this nation change? Will progress be made?

-Deadlyhope

As long as there are more than one human on Earth world peace beteeen humans will never happen. This is why liberal progressives fail. People have always been about themselves no matter how much they proclaim otherwise (Hillary, Bill, Obama, Bushes, etc...)

Humans are not as busy as their ancestors; cutting down trees to build their own homes, clearing brush for roads (homesteading). Hunting game, drilling wells for water, clearing the land of rocks and trees to plant crops. Humans now have nothing to do but wonder who will take out the trash or make the coffee in the morning. One human on Earth? would probably make the wrong call.



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 09:19 PM
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originally posted by: Orionx2

originally posted by: deadlyhope
What do you fellow members think? Can this nation change? Will progress be made?

-Deadlyhope

As long as there are more than one human on Earth world peace beteeen humans will never happen. This is why liberal progressives fail. People have always been about themselves no matter how much they proclaim otherwise (Hillary, Bill, Obama, Bushes, etc...)



In the Isaac Asimov novels, foundation and empire, the intrepid investigator visits a planet with I think it was 3 owners and a load of robots. They still fought for territory. It may be just a novel, but it is a sad testament to the human condition.

Cheers - Dave



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 09:22 PM
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originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Orionx2

Definitely not a partisan thing IMO.

Bush introduced the Patriot Act - An act to strip more rights than almost any other bill ever brought into existence.

Ted Cruz definitely is as slimey as anyone - He pledges allegiance to the same damn investment banking company as Hillary.

But that's just a couple examples - All people on all sides are in it for themselves

I am not saying partisan so much... Even if two people have similar ideology they will not get along over time. This is why the divorce rate is 50/50. Even two hardcore democrats or two hardcore republicans will not get along over time. In my experience Republicans (not so much the religious nutters) understand this. That is why they preach individual rights, personal responsibility, self sufficiency and minimal government. In other words you are responsible for yourself and you should learn to be independent.

Democrats think everyone can get along together and everyone is responsible for everyone's actions and everyone can live in utopia if everyone just conforms to be just like everyone else.. This is why this globalism agenda from the left will never work but they do not want to admit it. Nobody likes to be just like everyone else but that is the only way the democrats/socialists agenda will work.

White people like to be around white people, black people like to be around black people, middle easterners like to be around middle easterners, Mexicans like to be around Mexicans... It is just the way it is, but liberals always go on the racial card. Republicans are not nearly as racist as they are represented by the liberals. They are just realists.

My biggest issue is why is money always this main topic? The liberals are all complaining because Brexit will ruin the economy and destroy the stock market and their retirement..bla bla... Really? Would people rather live in peace and harmony even if they are poor than having to grind their life away in corporate life and have more money?

The world is messed up. Republicans. Democrats. libertarians... Non of their agenda will create harmony or world peace. As long as their are two or more humans on Earth, world peace will never exist. Just a sad fact.

edit on 24-6-2016 by Orionx2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 10:05 PM
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The whole point was that we don't need to work towards anything. Government is meant to be limited, not expanded or meant to "progress" to some ultimate form. All government, by it's nature, progresses toward more control, tyranny, corruption.. that's why it's meant to be limited

So called "progressives" have deluded themselves into thinking the government and society is meant to progress to some "final form", some fantasy world where everyone is homogeneous and perfect, and as a result are attempting to steer civilization off a cliff that they don't see coming.

As for an ideal society? Easy. Anarchy. Will never happen due to human nature. The best we can do is have limited government. Unfortunately, people don't see this or learn from history so we are doomed to repeat the mistakes made many times across the world.



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 10:10 PM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

We're a Corporate-ocrisy.

This presidential election was brought to you by these fine sponsors. . . . . .

Goldman-Sachs
Trump Industries
The Clinton Foundation
Arab Emirates
NAG (Nimrods Against Guns)
NRA
and
Dell Computers, for when you have to lose data fast.



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 10:33 PM
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Socialism, Capitalism, Communism - Doesn't matter.

Oh it matters.





However, contrary to Western usage, these states do not describe themselves as "communist" nor do they claim to have achieved communism; they refer to themselves as Socialist states or Workers' states that are in the process of constructing socialism.[2][3][4][5]


Choose wisely.



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 11:56 PM
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a reply to: syrinx high priest


First of all excellent post.

I want to correct something though.

Over the last few years that we've seen the Socialist Workers Party and the World Socialist Party start to engage in the US and Middle East many people have conflated any government service with socialism.

Americans are most guilty of this association. But it isn't a valid one.

Norway isn't a socialist country and I'm willing to bet they don't consider themselves a socialist nation. They have a market economy, a small and monolithic population, they are educated, and healthy people. People who live in such societies tend to be more prosperous than just about any other people.

Those people can afford to use the state as a proxy for their needs and it is the tax dollars they produce that makes it happen.

Under any real socialism this would not be possible as all production is owned by the state(I know they say the people...but it's really THEIR people).

When Mr. Sanders was singing the praises of "socialist Denmark" officials in Denmark responded with a bit of anger and a forceful rejection of Mr. Sanders assertion.

That got me thinking very hard about what socialism actually means vs. what people like Sanders tells us it means.

The socialist party in Spain has managed to accelerate the collapse of Europe's PIIGs. Greece has also managed to do the same thing, to the detriment of Europe, the Euro, and the world economy.

In contrast most of the EU nations with baskets full of social services don't suffer the same problems...Why is that?

Well the other nations embraced a market economy. The social services aspect of the governments of these nations are far more metered and well managed than those of any nation in PIIGs(a term that still applies for many reasons).

There's a reason why the term PIIGs was used. These nations had and still have massive debt to pay for social services that don't match the reality of the size and scope of the tax paying base. The market economy was thrown out in favor of using government more like a huge credit card company than an apparatus that works for the people.

That's been a standard practice of actual socialists since the Russian Revolution.

Even Marxist-Lenninists say that socialism is a necessary step on the road to communism. We see this play out today in places like Venezuela. This also got me thinking:

If socialism is the road to communism, then why isn't Europe communist?

The fact is Europe is largely not socialist. If that weren't true the place would look like Venezuela. It doesn't.

A government service is not socialism. Whether it is a successful and solvent service based on economic reality is a different thing. It is when natural economic activity is removed from the picture entirely in favor of unsupported government services, that's socialism(remember the state owns the means of production), and that is where you get failures. One single entity exposed to constant economic fluctuations can't possibly be prepared to respond adequately to those natural changes. This is why centrally planned economies fail.



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 11:59 PM
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a reply to: neo96

Refer to cowboys post.

Capitalism turns into corporations owning the people, land, money, government....

It's not much different than communism. It just makes you feel free.



posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 12:03 AM
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a reply to: projectvxn

Agreed, thank you for that explanation. The USA is very guilty of calling way too many things socialism, when it's hardly the correct term.



posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 12:13 AM
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a reply to: deadlyhope

The US government is especially inept at running the services it takes on. The federal government cannot plan economic activity of any sort in all 50 states. Every aspect of the federal government is running in the red and it is only getting worse.

Student loans and tuition is an excellent example of the government trying to plan out economic activity. They took over all student loans. The government goes after the student for the money, and the tax payer is on the hook for the debt. Then the collage continues to raise tuition because it's a free money cash cow. Why do you think schools haven't failed operationally if all their students can't pay their debts?

This is the same crap going on with the insurance industry today. It's an attempt to control natural economics and it is simply costing us more money.

The government takes our money and then gives it to the insurance industry. In return the insurance industry raises premiums, co-pays, and other fees that you are on the hook for out of pocket.

The US has a criminal oligarchy. We did it by assuming we could use the government as a credit card. So now we're back to square one. Genuine Socialists tend to attach themselves to the success of places like Norway, Denmark, and Switzerland while ignoring the basics of what makes those nations prosperous. The people in the US that are causing this problem are long time socialists and communist party operatives. They know what they're doing and they are getting very rich doing it.



edit on 25 6 16 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

edit on 25 6 16 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

edit on 25 6 16 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)




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