The British are frantically Googling what the EU is, hours after voting to leave it

a reply to: Tellurian

England sure is going to be longing for yesterday.
What we will see is a more unified Europe and EU, perhaps with a soon to be independent Scotland and a unified Ireland as part of the EU.

The gbp is going to be pounded even more in the coming months and England will be downgraded soon.

a reply to: earthling42

Or it could be the start of the downfall of the EU.

There's already a couple of countries speaking about possibly having a leave/stay vote.

As for stability? Things will level out after a while. For better or for worse. At least it will be our doing and not a "government" governing our own government.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Very True

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Please stop the insults and name calling and stick to the topic or more serious actions may follow.

Thanks,
Blaine91555
Moderator

a reply to: Willtell

He was, and he showed his ignorance by stating that they got their independence back while in fact Scotland voted to stay in the EU and will likely now want to get a renewed referendum to become independent because England voted out.

a reply to: earthling42

The joys of a democratic voting system. You'll never please 100% of the people, but the vote stands because of the majority. The way it should be. Not dictated by a government in a different country.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Highly unlikely, it is popular to kick against the EU without really knowing what the EU is.
My prediction is that the brexit is going to take away much of the ignorance among people, hence the EU will be more unified.

There is no question of a "government" governing our own government.
There is question of treaties which were developped and agreed upon by all memberstates.
The EU is not just some enity, our prime ministers are the ones who come together and make EU laws which will be voted upon in the european parlement which consists of chosen politicians from our memberstates.

a reply to: earthling42

I'm not so sure. While I dont see why people in any sovereign nation would WANT to hand their sovereignty over to yet another even more untouchable echelon of bureaucracy (and then there's that whole hegemonic Eurobank that surely is bent on screwing everybody like the Federal Reserve screws us "Americans")...

Seeing former empires / superpowers bend the knee to the latest new "superpower" thrust of a "country" just doesn't compute. As anti-imperialist as I am, the irony here the bits of imperial romanticism that surely dwells deep down in many "Britons" (is that the right term here?), that it surely has at least some part in shaping many of the attitudes against the EU Empire... This ultimate irony that it at least in some ways helped bring upon the return to reason over there in "Europe".

a reply to: kosmicjack

Come on Jack. Everything gets spun, all the time. See my reply to Knight above if you like.

Shouldn't the UK's vassal states (Canada, Australia, etc) had some say in the UK voting to get into or out of the EU Empire?

The sovereignty of Canada is a major cultural matter in Canada. Several issues currently define Canadian sovereignty: the Canadian monarchy, telecommunication, the autonomy of provinces, and Canada's Arctic border.

Canada is a Commonwealth realm, meaning that Queen Elizabeth II is the head of state. However, while several powers are the sovereign's alone, most of the royal constitutional and ceremonial duties in Canada are carried out by the Queen's representative, the Governor General, as such, the Governor General is sometimes referred to as the de facto head of state.
en.wikipedia.org...

I've never noticed a peep from anybody from these 'districts' ever making a stink, or a rave, about the whole EU issue.

Likewise, being vassal states of the UK, with the UK in the EU, why wouldn't said vassal states not be on the list of states under the EU federation?

Furthermore, all that considered, for the establishments EU agenda, the UK must surely be the "grand prize" entry into the EU... meaning the propaganda / economic / political war the EU establishment is about to wage against the UK should prove to be breathtaking...

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
it seems many Britons may not even know what they had actually voted for.

Well, now, under contract law, a contract is null and void if it can be shown that the signatories to that contract did not understand what the contract they were signing was.

For any contract to be valid, the signers must be of sound mind, capable of understanding the text, freely enter into the contract, of their own volition.

Coercion makes a contract invalid.

Lack of understanding makes a contract invalid.

If the Brits truly didn't know what they were voting for, then nothing has changed. Britain automatically remains in the EU. Your vote is only a valid recall of the union contract if you have a clear understanding of what that union is.

So, from a point of view of the Law. Britain cannot leave the EU, if it's citizens are unclear of what the EU really is.

originally posted by: AMPTAH
So, from a point of view of the Law. Britain cannot leave the EU, if it's citizens are unclear of what the EU really is.

Your entire post: very well put!

But at the end in describing what that chicken can or cant do you forgot about the egg:
If even to this day they still dont know what the EU is, then how could they have voted for it before and that vote be declared being of a 'sound mind'?

Using the UK as a metric in this context, how could the votes from hardly any (let alone every) EU state prove valid if put to this test?

This never even occurred to me before but, from what you've pointed out it could be argued that a major score of the votes behind most election results, large and small, (at least here in the US) are null & void meaning nearly every held office, and such, were all illegitimate. So many implications... I LOVE IT!

edit on 24-6-2016 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss because: (no reason given)

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
[
But at the end in describing what that chicken can or cant do you forgot about the egg:
If even to this day they still dont know what the EU is, then how could they have voted for it before and that vote be declared being of a 'sound mind'?
?

Ah, but under "common law", that which has been "common practice" for a long time is automatically accepted as the law. So, maybe 30-40 years ago when Britain entered the Union they didn't know what it was then. But, over time they have "by practice" come to accept the status of Britain being in the European Union. So, that union is valid under the current law. It's is just the new contract to break that Union up that can be challenged, on the basis that the Brits didn't understand what they were really voting for or against. It's the change from the standing agreement that can be overturned.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

This never even occurred to me before but, from what you've pointed out it could be argued that a major score of the votes behind most election results, large and small, (at least here in the US) are null & void meaning nearly every held office, and such, were all illegitimate. So many implications... I LOVE IT!

Well, not quite. The Founding Fathers were very smart.

They knew that the vote for President of the United States could be questioned in a true democracy where the people vote for the head office. So, what they did, instead, is make up this thing called the "Electoral College". And it is the Electoral College, with just a few individual representatives of each state, that vote for the president.

So, the claim can't be made that the uneducated public didn't know what they were voting for, because they don't actually vote for the president.

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
it seems many Britons may not even know what they had actually voted for.

Well, now, under contract law, a contract is null and void if it can be shown that the signatories to that contract did not understand what the contract they were signing was.

For any contract to be valid, the signers must be of sound mind, capable of understanding the text, freely enter into the contract, of their own volition.

How is that proven? Also who decides which voters were "of sound mind"? The government? Slippery slope that is...

There are people who voted 'leave' now regretting their decision.



See 3 mins in for an example.



Oh well. Cameron will possilbly go down in history as the Prime Minister who instigated the break up of two unions because unfortunately some people didn't really know what they were doing.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

We also have asked our self this question, there is certainly something to say about losing sovereignty due to EU.
But it is not handing over sovereignty to EU, that is simply a false statement from populists.
Northern Europe including the UK has made the EU to what it is today, the treaties mean that member states are open to all EU citizens.
They can travel through EU, live and work in any EU member state of their choosing.
It is vice versa, so many people from other member states will come to Northern Europe to live and work.
We have had our fair share of problems with this, on national level we had to make it work by implementing new laws.
Member states who implemented the euro gave up their national monetary policy by doing so and enjoy the benefits within the eurozone.
But there is a shared responsibility which hasn't been met by member states and which has led to the eurocrisis in 2009.
It is all about trade, take away the trade barriers, unite and make a powerful fist as a large trading market.
For economies outside the EU it is attractive because a treaty with the EU provides them acces to a large market.
In all honesty, the brits were fooled by their own politicians and it will cost them dearly.
It would only be fair to Scotland to allow them a renewed vote for their independence and freedom in this new reality.
the same with Gibraltar and Northern Ireland.

a reply to: syrinx high priest

Well I voted out, and I did not vote out because I dislike or do not welcome immigrants to these isles. I am actually pro-immigration, anti-fascist, and pro-diversity. I am a raging lefty, but I still insist that if I am going to be ripped off by a government, that the government I get ripped off by be one comprised of citizens of THIS country, not some unaccountable club of pen pushers I have no hope of taking to task, when they fail to carry out my instructions.

You see, that is what it is to live under proper democratic governance. All politicians are in such nations, all their remit is, is to do as they are told by the electorate. They do not have permission to design policy, unless that policy is inline with the needs and stated wishes of the electorate. They do not have permission to act against the national interest. We, the people, decide what that interest is, and when they act outside our interest, it is our job, collectively to throw them out, get better representation in our parliament.

That is very hard to do when whether your MEPs actions are even reported by the media, relies on whether or not someone paid the media to be vocal about it or not. It also becomes difficult for a nation to have its sovereignty in such an organisation, when a vote held outside it can ignore their concerns and wishes.

I believe that the people are the power, and now the only seat of power that we need to keep an eye on, is the one in Westminster. We have rooted out one bunch of misbegotten liars and bastards, and now we must turn our attention to reminding our own parliamentarians that they are not our leaders, they are our servants, and that they had best begin to behave like them toward us.

This is only the beginning.

Depends who it is. Might be people in the US and other countries outside UK finding out what all the headlines mean. Without knowing where they are we cannot really judge.

Edit to add that if you are in the UK to not know what the EU is you must have had your head buried as its been all over the media, including newspapers and general news reports. That said I have seen You Tube videos similar to the example on page 1 that seem show this...