Missouri is about to experiment with power from an unlikely source — its roads

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: lostbook

Yay! Im glad to see this project getting its first highway test. Ive been follwing this from the start. I even donated.

Solar freakin roadways!

SOLAR FREAKIN' ROADWAYS!!

a reply to: Kali74
If successful, I wonder if this could be a charge on the go for electric cars?

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Kali74
If successful, I wonder if this could be a charge on the go for electric cars?

That is one of the things proposed.

Really nifty....but why aren't we leveraging the piezoelectric opportunities from the vibrations on the road way? Its the difference between a trickle and a raging torrent

ABSOLUTELY INDEED. Bears repeating

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Right lets see how this handles a real world test before we poop all over it and if it under performs can it be improved.

a reply to: lostbook

Can't wait to see how this turns out. It does sound awesome.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Kali74
If successful, I wonder if this could be a charge on the go for electric cars?

I wonder the same.

I also wonder if there will be a way to manipulate the heat/light for levitating cars. To use light it could work similar to how solar sails work except the push would be a controlled "push" from underneath thus achieving levitation.....?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Really nifty....but why aren't we leveraging the piezoelectric opportunities from the vibrations on the road way? Its the difference between a trickle and a raging torrent

What would be the desired results-in layman terms?

a reply to: lostbook

well, you use the nanogenerators to generate microcurrents from the ambient energy. Examples of ambient energy we could tap into, and an idea how that would work;

- the road noise creates multiple frequencies that vibrate in a harmonic range/set of ranges. Use piezoelectrics to convert this mechanical energy into elecricity
- areas around roads also can be innovated to capitalize on this mechanical energy. For example, imagine a house with piezoelectrics build into a carbon substrate that IS the building material. Buildings can be built to generate their own electricity just by using the ambient phonon waves produced by all manner of things like cars, trains, people walking around the house, the speakers in your TV, your wall rattling snores....
- Schumann resonance....its everywhere all the time. Piezoelectrics could capitalize on the earths heartbeat, converting the em waves into mechanical energy, one electron at a time

piezoelectric switches are small enough to put 100 on a grain of rice. the challenge currently would be building the circuitry to extract the energy. but im sure that nanofibers can be grown to meet the challenge.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: lostbook

well, you use the nanogenerators to generate microcurrents from the ambient energy. Examples of ambient energy we could tap into, and an idea how that would work;

- the road noise creates multiple frequencies that vibrate in a harmonic range/set of ranges. Use piezoelectrics to convert this mechanical energy into elecricity
- areas around roads also can be innovated to capitalize on this mechanical energy. For example, imagine a house with piezoelectrics build into a carbon substrate that IS the building material. Buildings can be built to generate their own electricity just by using the ambient phonon waves produced by all manner of things like cars, trains, people walking around the house, the speakers in your TV, your wall rattling snores....
- Schumann resonance....its everywhere all the time. Piezoelectrics could capitalize on the earths heartbeat, converting the em waves into mechanical energy, one electron at a time

piezoelectric switches are small enough to put 100 on a grain of rice. the challenge currently would be building the circuitry to extract the energy. but im sure that nanofibers can be grown to meet the challenge.

Wow, that's pretty heavy! You would think something like that can be done and probably should've been done a long time ago.

If Missouri cared on iota about solar, it would mandate net-metering on the utilities, quite the opposite is true. Solar power buy-back from individuals is fought every step of the way.

So, one can only make the assumption this is only being done to enrich cronies. Solar roadway has been done, and shown to be far too expensive to remotely make sense.

Curious as to how these would hold up to a snow plow.

a reply to: lostbook

im sure someone smarter than me has thought of it. I started throwing the idea around back in 2007. For whatever that is worth. i have a thread on the concept, maybe dealing with electric clothing....i can't remember....its been a long while.

It's extremely unlikely that this will in any way be economically viable, given the general low efficiency of solar panels, along with the costs you get adding up manufacturing and placement and maintenance and battery storage and connection and regulation as it goes into the power grid.

Sounds about as efficient as setting up wind generators by the side of the road and having the passing cars and trucks blow air through them to create electricity.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
Really nifty....but why aren't we leveraging the piezoelectric opportunities from the vibrations on the road way? Its the difference between a trickle and a raging torrent

Actually, more like a raging trickle. There's not a lot of energy in the vibrations.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: lostbook

well, you use the nanogenerators to generate microcurrents from the ambient energy. Examples of ambient energy we could tap into, and an idea how that would work;

- the road noise creates multiple frequencies that vibrate in a harmonic range/set of ranges. Use piezoelectrics to convert this mechanical energy into elecricity

The energy in sound is actually quite low, in most cases. Barring a shuttle take off at close range, you won't have much to work with. The energy you have here is the sort of thing you get by applying a force through a distance. Not much force, vanishingly small distance.

- areas around roads also can be innovated to capitalize on this mechanical energy. For example, imagine a house with piezoelectrics build into a carbon substrate that IS the building material. Buildings can be built to generate their own electricity just by using the ambient phonon waves produced by all manner of things like cars, trains, people walking around the house, the speakers in your TV, your wall rattling snores....

Even if you captured it all, you're talking power levels less than a Watt.

- Schumann resonance....its everywhere all the time. Piezoelectrics could capitalize on the earths heartbeat, converting the em waves into mechanical energy, one electron at a time

The Schumann resonance is an EM phenomenon. Piezoelectrics convert mechanical deformation to energy. Therefore, they would be totally unable to do anything with Schumann resonance noise. You'd want an antenna. However, even with an antenna, the signal levels are spectacularly small, the wavelength horribly long. No antenna you could build would efficiently couple to the signal. As a result, the power you'd get would be in the femtoWatts.

a reply to: Bedlam

You're far more of an expert, certainly.

However . . . isn't it reasonable to add up even very tiny increments of accessible power . . . particularly if the design could be devoid of otherwise moving parts; was very durable . . . and enjoyed economies of scale?

If we were talking about 5,000 miles or even 1,000 miles . . . wouldn't even tiny increments of power add up meaningfully?

originally posted by: BO XIAN

If we were talking about 5,000 miles or even 1,000 miles . . . wouldn't even tiny increments of power add up meaningfully?

Not necessarily. If it's more expensive than traditional road, and doesn't last as long, or requires more frequent and more expensive maintenance AND doesn't produce enough power to pay back the extra cost, then no, it's not worth the effort.

It might work better in some areas than others. In Arizona, it might eventually pay for itself. In New York or Alabama, perhaps not. In one case you've got soil that is unstable and will sink over time, wrecking the tiles or the connections (which is why you see chunks cut out of otherwise nice road in the southeast), or there's not enough insolation to begin with and top that off with months of slush and salt. Which will also wreck the tiles and interconnections.

Roadbeds are not a great place for electronics.

a reply to: Bedlam

Thanks.

I assumed that roadbeds were not a great place for electronics . . . uhhhh . . .

without some very serious and solid engineering work-arounds overcoming such hazards.

We have solved worse problems, imho.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Why not put them on the back of road signs?