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12000 year old Maliseet camp site found in New Brunswick

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posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 05:01 AM
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This is a cool find .I didn't think that the edge of the glacier's were this far north at that time .....

Archaeologists say a campsite unearthed just metres from a new highway in Fredericton could be more than 12,000 years old. The campsite held 600 artifacts, most of which were from tool making, as well as a fire pit containing ancient charcoal. "It's very, very rare to find a campfire from 12,000 years ago, intact like this," said Brent Suttie, the provincial archaeologist, who is leading a team of 22 technicians on site. "This would have been the shore of a former glacier lake," said Suttie. "The other shore would have been around where Dundonald Street is. Up north, the lake would have went to Currie Mountain and south all the way to Belleisle. It was a big lake." The lake would have been about 10 times the size of Grand Lake, which is the province's largest lake. "It's such an amazing feeling to have that connection," said Goodall. "These are my ancestors. And just to be able to be the first one to hold things in 13,000 years — I get goosebumps every time." Tyson Wood, also Maliseet, grew up at St. Mary's First Nation just a few kilometres from the site. "Just to stand here, and to see that hearth, and to know that 12,000 years ago that our ancestors were sitting around a fire here, manufacturing their tools — you can see the goosebumps on me. I feel that connection." Suttie said the site and artifacts are "within 500 years of the oldest evidence we have of people being in the area." www.cbc.ca...




posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 06:03 AM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

ANy pictures of the artifacts? I like settlements before the neolithic age.. It must have been a magical place



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 06:06 AM
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a reply to: tikbalang

There is a vid at the bottom of the linked page that has the guy showing some things . I will check for other links and see what I can find ....

eta this link has another vid with more in it as well as one pic www.cbc.ca...
edit on 24-6-2016 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)


This vid in the link has some of the artifacts in the lab www.cbc.ca...
edit on 24-6-2016 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 08:22 AM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

Am I right in thinking that this find will definitely alter the history books and start to give us an insight into our ancestor's pasts and their travels. What a great find, the description sounds wonderful if not a bit cold - do you know what the temperatures would have been like at the base of a glacier?



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 08:58 AM
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a reply to: Shiloh7

I would think that although claimed to be a Maliseet site I am not sure how they could prove that but it is in the right territory where the tribes are today . I am also not sure if reconstructing the weather back then is possible as well . Paleoclimatology is one way of looking into the subject but even that field has some holes or questionable points of reference . Its not too hard to imagine with the oceans being much lower and a blanket of ice covering the north the earth might have been much different then what we see today .

This is a short snap shot of about 4000 years prior to today and might help give you a picture .

The Holocene Thermal Optimum ended at different times in different parts of the world, but it had ended everywhere by 4,000 BP (BP here means the number of years before 2000) and the world began to cool.
wattsupwiththat.com...
edit on 24-6-2016 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 10:46 AM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1
Great stuff, thanks for posting.

So, now comes the hard questions, this site is 500 years younger than the oldest known site New Brunswick, but Ramah chert from Ramah Bay in Newfoundland, shows up on the shores of Chesapeake bay, and the Pennsylvania highlands some 1500 years earlier, hmmmm.
So were early people already in Newfoundland trading the stone to the Clovis people of the mid Atlantic seaboard, or were those Clovis people travelling all the way to Newfoundland, and of so how did they know that very special stone was to found there.



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 11:03 AM
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a reply to: punkinworks10

In this link they said ..

Suttie said they have found some material in the campsite that came from central Maine. "So, already we know there were some connections with central Maine as early as between 10,000 and 11,000 years," he said.
www.cbc.ca...

Now the Newfound Land connection would have to be the

The Beothuk are the aboriginal people of the island of Newfoundland. They were Algonkian-speaking hunter-gatherers who probably numbered less than a thousand people at the time of European contact. The Beothuk are the descendants of a Recent Indian culture called the Little Passage Complex.
www.heritage.nf.ca...

Its hard to imagine but it is well known that the Natives from the Maritimes used to go there .I got sea sick my only time crossing in a large Ferry ...can't imagine doing it in a Canoe ....But the language links are there and they do run down into Maine ...



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 01:19 PM
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while its cool and all....its not "a local tribe".



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 01:27 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

What do you mean not a local tribe ?

To refer to each First Nation community as a First Nation is incorrect, it only serves the best interests of Canada. Canada tried to fortify this usage by ignoring First Nation affiliation by placing them under an Aboriginal label under this now defunct address: www.ainc-inac.gc.ca... All Bands were listed without regard to First Nation affiliation, and the Website header stated "Atlantic Region Aboriginal Communities." One wonders why the header didn't read "Atlantic Region First Nation Communities." The government has now changed this (2009), and it now list each First Nation Community outside the Aboriginal label. I believe the reason for the way they had originally listed First Nations under the Aboriginal heading is that the Canadian government is fundamentally opposed to seeing the country's First Nations reconstituted as they existed prior to it using Section 2 of the Indian Act to fragmentize them. I'll use the Mi'kmaq First Nation fragmentation experience as an example of how the government accomplished the deed.
www.danielnpaul.com...



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1


The Beothuk are the aboriginal people of the island of Newfoundland. They were Algonkian-speaking hunter-gatherers who probably numbered less than a thousand people at the time of European contact. The Beothuk are the descendants of a Recent Indian culture called the Little Passage Complex.
www.heritage.nf.ca...



I hate to be a stickler, but neither the Beothuk or the Maliseet are related to the first peoples of New Brunswick and Newfoundland, they are Algic speakers, and the Algic languages didnt come to be until about 7k years ago, in Washington Oregon and Northern California, thousands of years before they migrated east.

I think that is what bfft alluded to in his post.



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 01:39 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

while the stability of location for many tribes was far greater before European incursion, it would be highly improbable that a people squatted down in the same spot for 12k years, weathering out all manner of climate change and tribal warfare. Maybe genetically they are close. But tribes are loosely aggregated clusters of people based mostly on languages and not genetics.



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 01:42 PM
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a reply to: punkinworks10

I may be mistaken but I thought that the eastern tribes were made up of the Algonquin languages . Its the first I have heard of it being related to Natives on the west coast . Do you have a link to that ...tks .



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

The language would be more of a connection to one another . I am not sure how the Inuit languages work but I think there is some geographic cut off points around Labrador . 12000 years is a long time to be in one spot but there may have been large areas of movement that probably goes further down the eastern seaboard . If the west coast is the link then the migration to the east must have taken a long time . Is there any good papers that address this ? ...tks



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 02:34 PM
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a reply to: the2ofusr1

im hardly an academic. Punkinworks might have some stuff.

I've spent some time searching terms like "prehistory of iriquois" but subbing various indian names. There are some great sites with .edu extensions out there where various professors have warehoused their own research, thoughts, and musings.

the history isn't so great the further back you go, with anything prior to 1500 being more "paleontology" and 'archaeology", and less "history". Although, if you don't discount indigenous stories....there may be some insights that help you tie peoples with events in geology, etc.

The puzzle of the history of the America's is one of my favorite subjects. but im woeful at speaking to anything tangible.



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 05:48 PM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: punkinworks10

I may be mistaken but I thought that the eastern tribes were made up of the Algonquin languages . Its the first I have heard of it being related to Natives on the west coast . Do you have a link to that ...tks .


Yes, you are correct, a great many of the eastern tribes are Algonquin speakers, and Algonquin is one of the three languages in the Algic family that includes Wyot and Yurok, which are only found along a stretch of the northern california coast range moutains. Specifically they were found on the Klammath, Smith and Trinity rivers.

he Algic (also Algonquian–Wiyot–Yurok or Algonquian–Ritwan)[2] languages are an indigenous language family of North America. Most Algic languages belong to the Algonquian family, dispersed over a broad area from the Rocky Mountains to Atlantic Canada. The other Algic languages are the Yurok and Wiyot of northwestern California, which despite their geographic proximity are not closely related. All these languages descend from Proto-Algic, a second-order proto-language estimated to have been spoken about 7,000 years ago and reconstructed using reconstructed Proto-Algonquian and the attested languages Wiyot and Yurok.


and

The original Algic homeland is thought to have been located in the American Northwest somewhere between the suspected homeland of the Algonquian branch (to the west of Lake Superior according to Goddard[4]) and the earliest known location of the Wiyot and Yurok (along the middle Columbia River according to Whistler[5]


Algic Language Family

So, given that Algic appears in the pacific north west around 7000 years ago, and the fact that the algic speakers have a high incidence of MtDna Hg X2a, I believe it is safe to postulate that Kennewick man (8.5kya and MtDna Hg X2a) and his people were the forebearers of the Algic peoples.

BTW star and flag for your OP.



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 07:48 PM
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a reply to: punkinworks10

Same here I looked and Maliseet is in the Algonquian language family. Much further southwest in the eastern maritimes than the Beothunk as well. I could easily be wrong ( Wiki too!) but Beothunk can't be placed firmly into any linguistic family. There simply wasn't enough known to place it before the Nation literally passed away.

Now I know Wiki-ing it is a bit lazy, but hey, whatever. I included the maps to give folks a better geographical image of which Nation is where exactly.

More Beothunk Info:
www.academia.edu... k_c.9_000_Years_Ago_to_AD_1829_

Very cool thread and it's very true Canada's Government has been doing some creative folding of history and word play to minimize Native land territories. Unless it suits them to do otherwise, such as maximizing Inuit settlements to gain a larger footprint in the Arctic, somewhat due to Russia's claiming more of the Arctic shelf.

Edited to add, ROFL! Punkin you posted as I was digging around for info!
I now stand "schooled" as I didn't dig further back in time.
DUH!








The Wolastoqiyik, or Maliseet (English pronunciation: /ˈmæləˌsiːt/,[1] also spelled Malecite), are an Algonquian-speaking First Nation of the Wabanaki Confederacy.


Algonquin Language family.
en.wikipedia.org...

Beothuk Language


Attestation and classification[edit]
Beothuk is known only from four word lists written down in the 18th and 19th centuries. They contain more than 400 words but no examples of connected speech. However, a lack of any systematic or consistent representation of the vocabulary in the wordlists makes it daunting to establish what the sound system of Beothuk was, and words listed separately on the lists may be the same word transcribed in sundry ways. Moreover, the lists are known to have many mistakes. This, along with the lack of connected speech leaves little upon which to build any reconstruction of Beothuk. Claims of links with the neighbouring Algonquian language family date back at least to Robert Latham in 1862; from 1968 onwards John Hewson has put forth evidence of sound correspondences and shared morphology with Proto-Algonquian and other better-documented Algonquian languages, though if valid Beothuk would be an extremely divergent member of the family.[2] Other researchers claimed that proposed similarities are more likely the result of borrowing rather than cognates.[3] The limited and poor nature of the documentation means there is not enough evidence to draw strong conclusions.[4] Owing of this overall lack of meaningful evidence, Ives Goddard and Lyle Campbell claim that any connections between Beothuk and Algonquian are unknown and likely unknowable.[5]



en.wikipedia.org...


edit on 24-6-2016 by Caver78 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 08:49 PM
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a reply to: Caver78
There's some genetic evidence that shows the Algonquin is intrusive into the north east north America. The Algonquin speakers, in the north east share a particular genetic condition, that is not found among the non Algonquin neighbors.
I'll to dig up the blog post I read about it.



posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 02:53 PM
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a reply to: punkinworks10

That would be Fantastic!
Thanks!

I know going back retrieving info can be a real PITA



posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 04:09 PM
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A site that I have read in the past and found very interesting/informative RE: indian history from contact to present:

www.tolatsga.org...

and a related site with loads of information:

www.dickshovel.com...
edit on 6/25/2016 by bigfatfurrytexan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2016 @ 08:24 PM
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a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

OMYGERD!!!

I should have known you read Dick Shovel!!!!! One of the least known under rated websites EVER!
btw I heartily miss Rick's Twinkies 101 as well.

One of my fav's is still elfshotgallery.blogspot.com...
Once you dig into Tim Rast's post's it gets addictive. While napping is not a skill I possess, the history he includes and archeological information is like "my crack".

( it's sad, I need an intervention)


Last year I got the privilege of scraping a fresh a bear skin with a 4 inch flint. Once you get the hand motion right it was shockingly easy! Actually it was difficult not to get overenthusiastic an take off too much. Best afternoon I've had in a LONG time!! The wood scrapers with imbedded shell were more difficult.
edit on 25-6-2016 by Caver78 because: (no reason given)



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