UK Votes to Leave EU

a reply to: crazyewok

Despite not responding to any of the points I made you have posted an internet meme, therefore I am totaly convinced by your point of view....

a reply to: ScepticScot

I understand that many Scots want to use this referendum to further their own agenda of Scottish Independence.

But to be honest I don't understand the reasoning.

Scotland currently has quite a reasonable amount of devolved power.
The UK is heading towards devolved power for ALL the regions.
Yes, Scotland probably should have even more control over its own matters - that will surely come with time, Westminster is losing its grip over people.

People are getting increasingly disillusioned with party politics and that system has outlived its fit for purpose.

The EU is a heavily centralised body that openly states its aim is for 'ever closer union' and future legislation will give Brussels even more legislative power over all national elected assemblies than it has now.

Essentially future Scottish membership of the EU will see Holyrood stripped of all its legislative power.

In addition, you can guarantee that one of the many conditions for continued EU membership would be the introduction of the Euro in Scotland.

So you'd be using a foreign currency and all law making would be made in a legislative body where Scottish representatives would account for less that 1% of the total number of representatives.

So effectively Brussels would be able to implement laws that may be against the Scottish people's interests and wishes yet you'll be powerless to stop it.

Doesn't sound like my definition of independence...but hey, your choice.

I wish Scotland all the best regardless of what path they choose to take.

As a slight aside I've got to say I've been appalled at the complete and utter lack of leadership shown by anyone in the aftermath of the referendum.
No politician has spoke with any level of conviction, confidence and authority, (to be honest, even though I dislike the woman intensely I've got to concede that Nicola Sturgeon has appeared by far the most assertive and authoritative with at least some sort of joined up strategy).

It clearly shows how incompetent the current crop of politicians are.
It also suggests that I may have been right in my thinking that no-one - even those supposedly fronting the Brexit campaign - really thought that the result would have been for OUT.

a reply to: Freeborn

I would agree that the EU is overly centralised, one of the many reasons why was on the fence right up to the last minute is that I do have real issues with the set up and current politics of the EU. However on balance I think the advantages outweighed the disadvantages and it would be better to stay in and be part of making the EU better. I dont support being part of a European super state however if some countries democratically do want that then why not? I see no real problem with a multi tier EU (we already have this of sorts with the Euro Zone)

Sadly I believe the complete opposite about the UK and that with this result the UK is going to become more centralised again and any hope of constitutional reform within the UK is now firmly off the table (however with the apparent implosion of the UK's two main parties who knows).

We live in a country with a hereditary head of state, an un-elected second chamber, a virtually non existent constitution and a voting system that gives an absolute majority to a party with 37% of the vote. And yet people portray leaving the EU as a victory for democracy and freedom!

I doubt very much that any country is going to be forced to use the euro in the near future until there is some fundamental reform within the euro zone. Anyway what I am talking about is not joining the EU but staying in it, either as a independent country or as a devolved area still within the UK.

a reply to: ScepticScot

The whole of the nation is crying out for someone to come to the fore, stand up and say it like it is and get a #ing grip of things.
Currently we're just drifting along completely rudderless with no-one accepting responsibility or assuming control of anything.
Its an utter shambles.

I wish those of us who believe the party political system is past its sell-by date had been organised, we could have been agitating for radical parliamentary and electoral reform now.....for now is the time to strike, whilst the iron is hot and the incompetence, greed and amorality of the current system and all those who strive to maintain and exploit it is out there in the clear for all to see.

There is a clear divide in not just the UK as a whole but in England as well.
People are both angry and dismayed and there is growing support for having more local control on issues that directly concern individual regions.
Whether this develops into increased devolved power only time will tell, but I certainly hope so.

As for Scotland I think you would be foolish to commit to anything yet, there is a lot mileage left in this story.

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: fakedirt

It's far simpler than that.

A company can choose to keep employing someone whose rights and visa etc... are all up in the air for the next few years or they can employ someone who has stability.

All employers with an ounce of common sense are going with the latter option. It has nothing to do with punishing the UK - it's just basic common sense to put resources and training into the more reliable option.

Also we were reliant on the EU human rights and workers rights to protect us from employers doing these things - if the cases ever made it to court we'd already be out the EU as it takes so long.

Sadly this is what we get when we vote to give up laws protecting us and multi-billion contracts in education and science. We've gt to get used to the fact that instead of leading the EU, we're now poodle of both EU and US.

And I don't recall seeing any of this being discussed during the debates or in the run up to the referendum - by either side. Leave was resorting to scare tactics rather than actually telling us whet they would do with a remain vote - i.e. what new negotiations would happen etc. and Brexit forget this too.

Also another point that was forgotten in all the mud-slinging racist rows was the immigration issue and the government getting rid of staff in France.

The whole referendum about the EU was a complicated issue and an in out was probably not the best way to go about it.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
and it would be better to stay in and be part of making the EU better.

And that's the key thing.

Europe KNEW it had to reform. It KNEW it was in a dangerous situation with the UK leaving.

But what did they do? Nothing.


The EU fiddled while Rome burned.

They will NEVER reform.

If they were not going to reform before they wont now.

The people with the power of reform are the same bureaucrats that benefit the most from its wretched state.

That fact Junker hasn't resigned for his failure speaks volumes of the EU desire to reform.

Maybe the best thing to come out of this is a brand new government as the current one is diminishing fast. Perhaps some new faces not from the ranks of Eton and ones who are more in touch with their electorate?

originally posted by: YarlanZey
Maybe the best thing to come out of this is a brand new government as the current one is diminishing fast. Perhaps some new faces not from the ranks of Eton and ones who are more in touch with their electorate?

The most hilarious is Jeremy Hunt. He will be lucky to keep his MP spot let alone become PM!

a reply to: crazyewok

There was a discussion on the radio about who should start the process and negotiate our exit with Brussels now that Cameron has quit. One of the phone-in suggestions was a non-political person like David Attenborough.

a reply to: YarlanZey

I hate Theresa May. I think she it a authoritarian bitch...... But that may be what we need to go up against Merkal.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Still waiting for Scotland to tell me how they would be more independent as a insignificant country in the EU with only 6 MEP's and GDP of less that of Greece, than a part of a independent UK union with 59 MP's and a big impact on the UK economy?

Please tell me how this "Independence" works?

From were I stand Scotland don't seem to know the meaning of the word.

Scotland's GDP per capita
Scotland..14th





UK..Somewhere around here.















Greece..29th.

More BS from the BS brigade.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Bollocks not sure were you got those figure from!

Scotland brings in 216 Billion in total, Greece 236 Billion.

Last I checked (and it might be different in Scotland) 236 billion is a bigger number than 216 billion.

And you never addressed by point? How would Scotland be more independent as a small part of Europe with a hand full of MEPs rather than a large party of the UK with a huge chunk of parliament?

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Bollocks not sure were you got those figure from!

Scotland brings in 216 Billion in total, Greece 236 Billion.

Last I checked (and it might be different in Scotland) 236 billion is a bigger number than 216 billion.

And you never addressed by point? How would Scotland be more independent as a small part of Europe with a hand full of MEPs rather than a large party of the UK with a huge chunk of parliament?

It's in the link Scot.Gov...lol

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Bollocks not sure were you got those figure from!

Scotland brings in 216 Billion in total, Greece 236 Billion.

Last I checked (and it might be different in Scotland) 236 billion is a bigger number than 216 billion.

And you never addressed by point? How would Scotland be more independent as a small part of Europe with a hand full of MEPs rather than a large party of the UK with a huge chunk of parliament?

It's in the link Scot.Gov...lol

We are talking two different figures.

You are talking GDP per Capita.

I'm talking about overall nominal GDP which is the overall economic clout of a country.

IE china GDP per Capita is a lot lower than the UK or Germany but there nominal GDP is far higher.

GDP per Capita is much of a good indicator of economic clout but a better indicator of standard of living and better wealth distribution. Different tools for different jobs.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
It's in the link Scot.Gov...lol

Yeah, I read it, based on 2012 oil prices...lol

I couldn't give a toss either way though, if you lot want to leave the UK then do one, that's democracy.
I'd be glad to see the back of your whinging and # football. #ing traitors anyway...see ya.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Soloprotocol


And you never addressed by point? How would Scotland be more independent as a small part of Europe with a hand full of MEPs rather than a large party of the UK with a huge chunk of parliament?

The lights are on but nobody is home with you. last time i checked Scotland has a maximum of 69 MP's. The Conservative party alone has 300+...Is the penny dropping yet. ?

a reply to: crazyewok

He wouldn't understand such intricacies lol

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: Soloprotocol


And you never addressed by point? How would Scotland be more independent as a small part of Europe with a hand full of MEPs rather than a large party of the UK with a huge chunk of parliament?

The lights are on but nobody is home with you. last time i checked Scotland has a maximum of 69 MP's. The Conservative party alone has 300+...Is the penny dropping yet. ?

And it would have 6 MEPS out of 751........... Um yeah.... OK.

Again 69 here in England is a bigger number than 6.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: crazyewok

He wouldn't understand such intricacies lol

I'm catching on mathematics isn't his strong point

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
It's in the link Scot.Gov...lol

Yeah, I read it, based on 2012 oil prices...lol

I couldn't give a toss either way though, if you lot want to leave the UK then do one, that's democracy.
I'd be glad to see the back of your whinging and # football. #ing traitors anyway...see ya.

On the subject of # football...Two brexits in 4 days.


Have your lot buggered off yet..Hurry up and sign the divorce papers...Sick of listening to your whinging and begging countries you invaded, stole from, murdered it's population then left with your tail between you legs...In the immortal words of Brittany Spears...You're Toxic..