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SOME American Indian views on Homosexuality

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posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 12:00 PM
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I came across an article the other day and found myself to be quite intrigued. Not because it has a happy ending, as the atrocity of it is still going on to this day, but because of SOME of the American Indians views on Homosexuality before the white man came along and destroyed it.

They didn’t have a name like Homosexuality for it. Too them it was simple a matter of a person being the gender of
“Two Spirit.”

They actually had a common core belief that there were five genders rolls:
“Female, male, Two Spirit female, Two Spirit male and Transgendered.”

In fact the people considered to be “Two Spirit,” were viewed as gifted by nature, and therefore, able to see both sides of everything.

A snippet from the article:

“The Two Spirit people in pre-contact Native America were highly revered and families that included them were considered lucky. Indians believed that a person who was able to see the world through the eyes of both genders at the same time was a gift from The Creator.”


Being a gay woman myself, I can understand this. While my thinking is very "male," I still understand a woman's perspective and feelings. I'm guessing the gay men that are female identified can say the same. They may view the world with a woman's feelings, but still understand how men think.

What was best for the survival of the tribe had nothing to do with sexual preference, a person was valued more so on what they contributed to the tribe as a whole. There weren't any set ideas on how a person should love or whom. That was all considered as just being:

simply a natural act that occurred without judgement or hesitation



Without a negative stigma attached to being a Two Spirit, there were no inner-tribal incidents of retaliation or violence toward the chosen people simply due to the fact that individuals identified as the opposite or both genders.


It wasn't until the Europeans showed up with their staunch views that this all began to change.

The “Two Spirit” culture of Native Americans was one of the first things that Europeans worked to destroy and cover up. According to people like American artist George Catlin, the Two Spirit tradition had to be eradicated before it could go into history books. Catlin said the tradition: “..Must be extinguished before it can be more fully recorded.”


It does appear though that it wasn't only the Europeans that had their finger in this destructive pie. Seems the Spanish Catholic Monks were also on a mission as well. They:

destroyed most of the Aztec codices to eradicate traditional Native beliefs and history, including those that told of the Two Spirit tradition.”


Of course this all led to the American Indians have to dress and act like their newly designated gender roles.

The outcome of that?:

Religious influences soon brought serious prejudice against “gender diversity,” and so this forced once openly alternative or androgynous people to one of two choices. They could either live in hiding, and in fear of being found out, or they could end their lives. Many of whom did just that.


Anyhow I just wanted to present this as food for thought. Gay people arent just something that popped up over night. We have been around a long time. Seems there was a whole country without a name at one time that never really gave it a second thought and considered it just another natural occurrence of nature. At least until some boats showed up on the eastern shores....

LINK TO ARTICLE





edit on 6/23/16 by onehuman because: added link

edit on 6/23/16 by onehuman because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/23/16 by onehuman because: edit for peoples hang up on semantics




posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 12:03 PM
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a reply to: onehuman

I read this article yesterday - the theory and history both make a lot of sense. Especially when it comes to European settlers essentially "blacking out" this information, because it would topple any patriarchal system, especially that of the cath church..


+26 more 
posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 12:11 PM
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I like how "American Indian" is wrapped up as if its all one homogeneous religion.

The only specifics I saw was "Aztec"

Meanwhile active tribes that draw from their own tribal culture: Tribes that prohibit gay marriage



The Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma and the Navajo Nation, with about 300,000 members each, maintain decade-old laws that don't recognize same-sex marriage. Neither tribe has shown much sign of shifting.


I hope you don't respond imposing your white progressive lifestyle beliefs on these tribes.

I am Native American, and I live and work within the tribe and its boundaries.


+7 more 
posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 12:19 PM
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a reply to: Butterfinger

Just white progressive liberals pushing an agenda.

Interesting but ignorant saying native Americans all believed this considering the hundress of tribes all being unique in culture



posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 12:29 PM
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I will leave the last words to the late Lakota actor, Native rights activist and American Indian Movement co-founder Russell Means: “In my culture we have people who dress half-man, half-woman. Winkte, we call them in our language. If you are Winkte, that is an honorable term and you are a special human being and among my nation and all Plains people, we consider you a teacher of our children and are proud of what and who you are.”
a reply to: onehuman

I read this yesterday as well, the above was one of the things I found most interesting.



posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 12:31 PM
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a reply to: onehuman

Very sophisticated way of looking at this issue. Its a shame this view wasn't better known in the West as it might have saved a lot of lives and humiliations.



posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 12:32 PM
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a reply to: onehuman

I read this wonderful explanation years ago and thought, "What wonderful and HUMAN perception!" So much more of a civilized concept and way of acceptance the Natives had/have of gay people. Like you said, gays have been among and accepted in all our diverse cultures for thousands of years, going back to and beyond the fierce Roman soldiers. Alexander the Great was gay for cryin' out loud! But the explanation and acceptance by the Native Americans, I think, is the most wonderful and makes the most sense when you look at it logically. And they were touted as "savages"....

Ain't religion GREAT?!! .😋



posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 12:34 PM
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a reply to: unphased

It wasn't only the catholic church which only wanted breeder couples it started with the Jews who believe everyone should marry.

The reasons are the same for both lots of religious zealots though i.e. being one to snatch the woman 's property and two to get more people bred to keep the priesthood to the manner it had become accustomed to.

Once islam came along, it is exactly the same motive to crete breeders and spread the good word, so everyone must marry.



posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 12:34 PM
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Let's all worry about what other people might be doing in their own homes eh?

I've always preferred to concentrate on my own sex life and improving both the quantity and quality I get than waste my time over whether two strangers fancy each other.


It's nice to hear a different cultural viewpoint like the op has shown, but it's sad that there is still so much rubbish going on that things like sexuality still require justification.



posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 12:36 PM
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a reply to: onehuman

A thoughtful OP. One that accepted that there is a difference, but didn't ostracize the person for the difference.

But when I saw the title of this thread, I must admit that the first thing that came to my mind was, "Dances With Glitter".






posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 12:37 PM
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a reply to: Butterfinger

Well then your ignorant to some of your own heritage including the example you gave.

Hence why they say decades old and not traditional.

Yes all tribes were not the same.

However it's very common throughout egalitarian tribes to have varied gender roles and sexuality. Very very common.

It's also not liberal because when you read early colonial anthropology they describe how these "savages" enjoyed blasphemous sexual practices.

Marriage has not always or ever been only between a man and a woman.

So under religious freedom alone it was a constitutional problem. Never mind denying contracts to selected groups of people


+11 more 
posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 12:38 PM
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Are we going to start up the old notion of Native Americans being an Earth tuned magic elf culture again?

You know, we also allowed some limited Pedophilia(as muslims do), black slaves(Confederacy had more indian tribes that the union), honor killings, and even some cannibalism. Each of these things had thier own words too, just like "Winkte" (which is a contested translation use of the word BTW)

Can we legitimize these things as well just because your cigar statue notion of us is convenient?

White people... SMH



posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 12:38 PM
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a reply to: Butterfinger

I was wondering. Do you think that it is possible, that they feel that way today, because that is what they were "taught" by the white man, way back?
Or have they always believed this?

I really am just curious. I know not all tribes have the same beliefs.



posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 12:40 PM
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a reply to: chiefsmom

Some are straight up christian of course, "officially". But aside from the lords prayer before events, thats where it ends. Legends and spirits and even creation myths persist more so.

Why would this one stance stick where other middle eastern beliefs dont if its was a style of brainwashing and cultural whitewashing that is to blame?



posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 12:42 PM
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originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: onehuman

A thoughtful OP. One that accepted that there is a difference, but didn't ostracize the person for the difference.

But when I saw the title of this thread, I must admit that the first thing that came to my mind was, "Dances With Glitter".





Thanks DBC, I just spit water on my computer.

This article was linked within the OP's link, and provides a deeper explanation.

Linky Thing



posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 12:42 PM
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a reply to: luthier

I figured someone white would tell me how to culture myself and trade for just another white originated belief.

Son, you dont even know what tribe I am.



posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 12:47 PM
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a reply to: Shiloh7

You really think the church and Islam is the only culture belief that pushed that type of thinking?



posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 12:47 PM
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a reply to: Butterfinger


T'is the internet, for all we know you might actually be a white teenaged girl from Tumblr appropriating Native traditions in order to make a defence on the behalf of others.



posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 12:49 PM
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Well if Native America Indians say it, it must be the 100% truth.



posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 12:50 PM
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a reply to: Painterz

Thats true, but it doesnt stop what I said being true.

White washing over natives for your agenda.

You thought you guys had us "domesticated" didnt you?



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