BREAKING: Van Driver In Freddie Gray Case Found Not Guilty On All Counts

a reply to: butcherguy

Why do you seriously doubt that? I know a guy (not a friend, just a person I know), who accidentally knocked out a molar hitting himself in the face to make it look like the police had roughed him up. (This was back in the 90's).

If Fred was hand cuffed and trying to beat himself up he totally could have slammed himself into the side of the vehicle and fallen (in a moving vehicle mind you) in such a way that he broke his own neck.

Oh, you mean that is the exact testimony provided by the other prisoner in the van??

Source

a reply to: Greven

That is incorrect. If the police tell you to stop and you run, you just broke the law. How are you not aware of that basic fact? You MUST comply with a lawful order.

Edit: If almost 100% of cases if you flee after a lawful order, the officers will arrest you just for fleeing in order to process you. The processing will determine if their were warrants or some other reason the person may have fled. Sometimes the officers will use discretion and determine that the person is no threat and SOMETIMES let them go. If they are minors, they will release them without processing to their parents.

a reply to: JdSmith

That is only half right. If an officer tells you to stop, even in a safe neighborhood, you have to comply. You can ask the officer if he is detaining you and if he is not THEN you can walk away.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: JdSmith

That is only half right. If an officer tells you to stop, even in a safe neighborhood, you have to comply. You can ask the officer if he is detaining you and if he is not THEN you can walk away.

QFT

a reply to: Greven

He ran away unprovoked at the sight of officers, that is cause for suspicion, suspicion is all required to detain, to resist the lawful detention escalates into probable cause for arrest. Why run if you have nothing to hide?

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: hounddoghowlie

I am torn over this whole thing.

Freddie Gray went into that van without a broken neck and he came out with a broken neck.

I really doubt that he broke his own neck.

Someone, at least one person in the police department is responsible for that man's death.

I am totally against the property destruction that went on as people rioted because of what happened.

Exactly

Poilce have a duty of care of those in custody.

a reply to: Greven

How often does that happen?

It is quite tragic, but is it common? Not really.

Depends on location.

Well the fact that we have 20 officers killed in 2016...and we are only 6 months in that is high.

www.odmp.org...

And honestly it shouldn't happen at all. And that is both sides.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Greven
Fleeing from the police is not a crime, if the police have not detained you or issued an order to you.

Incorrect...

Had it been a voluntary contact by police he could have told them to kick rocks and walked away with no problem. However in this instance he was known to the officers, including his criminal history. He was in a high crime/drug area where law enforcement was conducting saturation patrols. Upon seeing the police he fled. The purpose of contact was his criminal history known to the officers, his presence in a high crime area. Finally Gray was a convicted Felon and at the time was on probation, which changes the manner in which police can deal with a person. He was in possession of a spring-assisted knife, which is in fact illegal under Maryland law (contrary to what Mosby stated).

It would be a lawful investigative detention which he fled.


Criminal History - Freddie Grey

March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance
March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault
January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing
January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute
December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute
December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance
August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing
January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana
September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape
April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation
July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute
March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute
February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance
August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation
August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana
August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)

You may want to brush up on the facts and laws yourself since you dont seem to be familiar with them.

Do people not understand English?

As mentioned before that is a list of arrests not convictions. There is an important distinction, just like the distinction between crime and detention.

FLEEING FROM POLICE WITHOUT PROVOCATION IS NOT A CRIME

If it is, you live in a police state - and do not live in the United States of America.

POP QUIZ: What convictions did Freddie Gray have against him? Not arrests - convictions.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: Greven

That is incorrect. If the police tell you to stop and you run, you just broke the law. How are you not aware of that basic fact? You MUST comply with a lawful order.

Edit: If almost 100% of cases if you flee after a lawful order, the officers will arrest you just for fleeing in order to process you. The processing will determine if their were warrants or some other reason the person may have fled. Sometimes the officers will use discretion and determine that the person is no threat and SOMETIMES let them go. If they are minors, they will release them without processing to their parents.

The police did not tell him to stop.

He saw them, and fled without provocation, ergo there was no order to stop.

Further, if there was an order to stop, the police would have charged him with evading arrest. Did they or did they not?

originally posted by: sycomix
a reply to: Greven

He ran away unprovoked at the sight of officers, that is cause for suspicion, suspicion is all required to detain, to resist the lawful detention escalates into probable cause for arrest. Why run if you have nothing to hide?

Yes.

Again, this is still not a crime. It is not a crime to run away from the cops until you disobey a lawful order or under arrest.

What charges did Freddie Gray have against him relating to this incident, again?

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Greven

How often does that happen?

It is quite tragic, but is it common? Not really.

Depends on location.

Well the fact that we have 20 officers killed in 2016...and we are only 6 months in that is high.

www.odmp.org...

And honestly it shouldn't happen at all. And that is both sides.

I agree that it should not happen, and it is a higher than average. Given the size of the police force at around 800,000 - it's still not very common; auto accidents typically kill more officers. Although, a number of these are from police chases.

Some 556 people have been killed by the police during that same time frame.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie


not guilty

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

The cops wont get heavy handed if the dumbass doesn't try to kill people. I love how its put back on the police while the NTAC is the one trying to kill.

No need to be so aloof, the police are not as innocent as you would like to have us all believe....reality is there is a percentage of police that are criminals hiding behind a badge......

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

and trying to suggest police become heavy handed when someone is trying to kill them is a bit ridiculous.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: hounddoghowlie

I am torn over this whole thing.

Freddie Gray went into that van without a broken neck and he came out with a broken neck.

I really doubt that he broke his own neck.

Someone, at least one person in the police department is responsible for that man's death.

I am totally against the property destruction that went on as people rioted because of what happened.

I can somewhat agree with you, but this is what happens when you have prosecutorial over reach. Mosby went in and charged them all with 1st degree murder.

When you charge people with that, you have to prove they meant to kill, that they went out into the neighborhood and picked up Grey with the intent to kill him. And you have to prove all five of them did that.

I simply don't see how you can.

What she should have done was bring up lesser charges like manslaughter, maybe police brutality or negligence or something. Manslaughter at least would have said that they didn't intend for him to die but it happened and things they did or did not do were the direct cause of that. And manslaughter still sends you to jail for a good amount of time, but the mob wouldn't hear of that. So they made political charges and now they're losing.

a reply to: ketsuko

Only one person, the van driver, was charged with murder and it was only 2nd degree murder. 1st degree murder requires forethought and planning IE the driver knew he was going to kill him and planned on doing so with the van ride.

However you are correct with the overreach since no charges have been substantiated yet. The fact she pushed like she did, and by not allowing the IA investigation to occur first, I would go with prosecutorial misconduct. Even more so since the last PA for this case was sanctioned for a brady violation.

a reply to: Greven

Incorrect, when he started running he was chased and told to stop. You are out of your league.

a reply to: Greven

Running as soon as he police arrive will get you detained, especially if they are involved in an investigation or working to pacify a high crime area.

Injustice in Baltimore? Blame the Bungling Prosecutor

It now looks likely that no one will be held criminally responsible for the death of Freddie Gray in police custody. If so, blame Maryland State’s Attorney Marilyn Mosby.

In a bid to score political points, she rushed in to overcharge six cops even as mobs rioted and looted in Baltimore’s streets.

On Thursday she lost the third and most critical trial in the racially charged case as Circuit Court Judge Barry Williams acquitted Officer Caesar Goodson of all charges, including second-degree murder.

From the start, legal experts warned the facts didn’t back up the charges — and the judge, an African-American who previously prosecuted police misconduct, agreed.

Goodson’s case was the most critical, since he was driving the van in which Gray suffered a fatal spinal injury after his arrest and faced the most serious charges.

Mosby’s office accused Goodson of deliberately giving Gray a “rough ride” that caused his injury. But the judge found “insufficient evidence” that Goodson “gave or intended to give Mr. Gray a rough ride.”

“The State was required to present evidence that the defendant corruptly failed to follow his duty, not that he made a mistake and not that he committed an error in judgment,” Williams ruled, adding: “The state failed to meet its burden.”

Click link for article...

a reply to: Greven

I will take my law enforcement training, background and 10+ years in 2 states over your lack of knowledge and understanding of how the law works.