Guess how many welfare recipients tested positive in Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder’s drug test?

a reply to: neutronflux

They do? Every flight? Alcohol leaves your body at a drink per hour basically. Some drugs stay in your system as metabolites. Which don't get you high but are the markets for the test.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Excellent wisdom in there.

a reply to: luthier

And how many times have they pioleted a jet with 300 people aboard. I'm pretty sure not all would pass a piolet's physical either. Should they fly jets?

a reply to: neutronflux

Yes. If they are good pilots and not high at work they should fly jets.

One of those folks by the way is an astronaut.

3 are billionaires

1 is a brilliant physicist.

a reply to: luthier

Like I said, all my drug tests have been at work or on duty.

a reply to: neutronflux

Sure but like I said pot stays in your fat cells for up to 45 days from 1 toke.

And back to those people you kick off benefits do you keep the on the streets hustling or pit them in jail for failing the test. Or so you wait until they commit a crime out of survival drug induced desperation?

What about their kids?

How much would this cost the state in addition to benefits already given?

If it's about getting people help for addiction I am right there with you but that's an expense not a savings unless they have really thought about the solution and are working with the private sector exchanging say tax breaks.

a reply to: luthier

If I was more worried about what drugs I could do, I would have stayed with restaurants. I was more concerned with a good job, providing for a family, and working less the 50 hours a week. Blesses is a child that never sees a parent high or drunk.....

a reply to: luthier

Child services steps in all the time to protect kids from addicted patents. And that is without drug testing. Unless drug testing is part of getting custody of their children back.

a reply to: Aazadan

You are right on both counts. I made mistakes, and I learned from them.

I will make more mistakes before I die. So will you, and everyone else who survives past mignight tonight. The point is not about not making mistakes, but about how someone can recover from a devastating mistake. No one is perfect, and it sort of raises my hackles when I hear someone being so dismissal about those in need.

The phrase, "There, but for the Grace of God, go I," comes to mind.

I have also lost a lot of money in my life helping out those I thought were indigent but turned out to be con men. I didn't put that in the story because I refuse to see it as a mistake. The ones I helped that did need it made it all worthwhile.

One evening when I was driving, I was approached by a young woman in a truck stop begging for money. She said she was stuck, out of gas, and broke. Remembering all the cons I had seen recently, I turned her down. Soon after, I watched her approach another driver. After a moment she leaped off the truck and ran to a car. She pulled it to a gas pump, ran inside, came back and pumped her gas, then left, happily waving at the driver who helped her.

I felt like a heel.

Helping others is never a mistake. Refusing to help others always is.

TheRedneck

a reply to: neutronflux

Unless the dad is a raging ass who can't adapt to reality.

People are nasty with or without drugs.


I guess that doesn't make as good a catch phrase.

Sorry but stats show dry counties and such have plenty of domestic violence.

But yeah you shouldn't be messed up in front of your kids. However I'll take a peaceful person high over an abusive strait person.

Elon Musk created pay pal and was a millionaire by 21. He created his own car company, space exploration company and is going to have ships on Mars in less than 5 years.

Steve Jobs well you probably know him...

Bill Gates?

Carl Sagan ever seen his show or read what he was in astrophysics?

Dis those people never leave the restraunt seen?

I mean there are millions of these people.

Maybe everyone doesn't need to be just like you to be a good person

In the capital of Michigan, you can buy pee for employment drug test for $20. I have friends who do this.

Did the pilot study keep people from doing drugs or were they not doing drugs to begin with? or did they buy pee?

a reply to: neutronflux

How about you answer my question?

Do you take the kids for failing a test? 3 tests? Or 1? 5? At what point does a drug test diagnose addiction? Or so you hire Dr's to interpret this? Who diagnosis addiction?

What do you do with a failed drug test? Does the person go the street or jail?

The kids become wards of the state? For which drugs?

originally posted by: jellyrev
In the capital of Michigan, you can buy pee for employment drug test for $20. I have friends who do this.

Did the pilot study keep people from doing drugs or were they not doing drugs to begin with? or did they buy pee?

Anyway you scrub it it's a failure.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: luthier

So, ambulance driver's should not be drug free? How about welders for structural steel or nuclear pipping? Commercial pilots. Its often just part of the job. Like pilots have to pass a physical, have no heart issues or issues with diabetes.

That's a reason to be of sound mind while on the clock. If a pilot gets high on his day off, why does it matter?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: luthier

If I was more worried about what drugs I could do, I would have stayed with restaurants. I was more concerned with a good job, providing for a family, and working less the 50 hours a week. Blesses is a child that never sees a parent high or drunk.....

My parents were divorced, stepmom was an alcoholic, step sisters were alcoholics, dad liked a drink or two. On the other side my stepdad liked to get blackout drunk each night.

Still, despite that they mostly waited to get hammered until I had gone to bed. I can't really say I saw any of my family drunk until I was age 20 or so, and never high.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I try to avoid making the same mistake over and over, better yet I identify a mistake and don't make it at all. Some of them take a long time to recover from though.

In my case, the biggest mistake I found is doing things to excess. I don't drink or do drugs so it's not doing those things to excess but rather just not moderating life. Working long stints to get something done, and then doing nothing due to burnout. Eating to excess, and so on. It's something I try to work on a lot, with a little bit of patience and moderation one can try to do anything. But it all means not over indulging in the present because you can.

That's a tough one for me to master. I actually keep a little journal much like Ben Franklin did, with various things I consider to be vices on it with a rotation where I focus harder on avoiding a specific one each day. I mark myself when I screw up, but it does help me to screw up less.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I have a coworker who by his on doing (got into trouble) has to take a piss test regularly. When he does it they watch him. Hard to fake.

To add to the actual subject as you bring up welfare recipients, I really see no reason other than funding, why we can't test them. Their "job" is to look for a job right? Well in that sense they work for the govt.

I don't really care too much about average people doing drugs, what I do care about is people doing them on the govt dime, our money.

originally posted by: GraffikPleasure
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I have a coworker who by his on doing (got into trouble) has to take a piss test regularly. When he does it they watch him. Hard to fake.

Yea my buddy was on probation for a while too. He faked a few of those tests as well, but keep in mind that most tests aren't done like that.

To add to the actual subject as you bring up welfare recipients, I really see no reason other than funding, why we can't test them. Their "job" is to look for a job right? Well in that sense they work for the govt.

Well funding is a rather large issue now isn't it? These tests aren't cheap. Plus they are rather ineffective.

To be honest, drug testing is a stupid idea in general and shouldn't be done.
Why Do Employers Still Routinely Drug-Test Workers?

That might make sense if testing yielded clear benefits to the companies that deploy it or to society at large. But here’s the most distressing fact about drug testing in the workplace: As was the case 30 years ago, testing has no solid base of evidence, no proof that it succeeds. We don’t know if screening workers for recent drug use makes them more productive, lowers their risk of getting into accidents, or otherwise helps maintain the social order. And what positive effects we do understand—there are indeed a few—seem almost accidental. They may not be worth the time and money and intrusion.

In other words, the drug testing of employees isn’t so much a thoughtful labor policy as a compulsive habit. It’s something that we do because we’ve always done it, and we don’t know how to stop. Testing has become a national addiction, and it may be time to taper off.

I don't really care too much about average people doing drugs, what I do care about is people doing them on the govt dime, our money.

Why? They are allowed to buy alcohol. We don't test for that. Alcohol is one of the most dangerous drugs you can buy.

Can you name one good reason why we should be wasting taxpayer money on drug testing welfare recipients? Please take into consideration the given evidence that drug testing welfare recipients results in near 0% positive results. Take into consideration that drug testing is a gross invasion of privacy. Take into consideration that being on or off drugs is no baring on if you are seriously looking for a job or not.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Because being on the publuc dole mesns you pay by the government rules. Show a study that proves your statements. One, long term testing is not a deterrent. Two, wide spread cheating. We should not test becsuse people will cheat? What kind of people do you think are on welfare? People cheating the system and engaging in criminal behavior are the people that waste the time and money for the families who truly need welfare. If testing saves one addicts life by getting them treatment, then tesing is not worth the money?

a reply to: Aazadan

Probably more with how bad the habit, how expensive the habit is, willing to engage in criminal activity, and what they are willing to do to pay for the habit. What is the cause of most crime and vehicular accidents? There are reasons why drug / alcohol useage will keep a person from getting or keeping a security clearance. There are better candidates with out the liability. Just life.