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Why We Should Not Be Transitioning Children.....

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posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 12:31 AM
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a reply to: Freija



Parroting your words somewhat, as a woman, I find it "offensive" that you reduce being a woman to just having a vagina. I know I'm a helluva lot more than mine and think who I am as a person to be a little more complex and multi-dimensional than that.


I am talking about sex. There are two of them. Wearing a dress doesn't make you a woman. Being born as the female sex does.

I read everything and I truly feel sorry for people with this disorder. It would be much easier to accept the operations if they actually could change someones sex but for now they cannot. I don't think they should give up looking for successful ways to treat this. Just because they haven't found one at this time doesn't mean it is not possible.

This is something a bit new to me and I have learned a few things here and there.




posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 12:32 AM
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originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Teikiatsu




I would still like for any person who claims to be transgender to tell me now they know what the gender they claim to be feels/thinks/behaves/acts like.
You haven't been paying much attention. Confirmation bias is funny that way.


Really, when did anyone describe it? I missed it. Please provide a link.


Also Phage, I'm still waiting for that link to a person who claims to be transgender to tell me now they know what the gender they claim to be feels/thinks/behaves/acts like. You implied that such a description exists. I would not want to think you just took a cheap shot to presume I have 'confirmation bias'. For all that we disagree on some things, you almost always have information to back up your assertions.



posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 12:33 AM
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a reply to: Teikiatsu

First response: Bite me!

Second response:

Perhaps you should tell me and all the other women reading how you think a woman is "supposed to think/feel/behave. I'm not sure we all got the same memo? While you're at it, why don't you share how a man thinks/feels and behaves. Excuse me if I am making an assumption that you think you are a man.

I'm here to educate and inform and help people become aware of and understand these things. Why are you here? It sure seems to me just to spread your opinions and negativity and other ignorant anti-trans bullcrap.



posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 12:37 AM
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a reply to: Phage

Ah I see. I think i'm starting to understand this more. They should work on the surgery to be able to replicate it perfectly. I think maybe something like this would be possible www.bbc.com...



posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 12:56 AM
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originally posted by: Freija
a reply to: Teikiatsu

First response: Bite me!


No.


Second response:

Perhaps you should tell me and all the other women reading how you think a woman is "supposed to think/feel/behave. I'm not sure we all got the same memo?


How would I know that? I'm a man. EDIT: Also see my next response.


While you're at it, why don't you share how a man thinks/feels and behaves. Excuse me if I am making an assumption that you think you are a man.


Thanks for asking!

I am indeed a man, but I don't think there is any answer to your question. I don't believe we are internal genders. I have said before that I believe we are all genderless consciousnesses wrapped in meat shells. (Not very romantic, I know.) I am aware of my 'maleness' because of my anatomy and hormonal responses. Beyond that, I am an individual. My compiled life schemas are totally different from any other man on this planet, and I am comfortable with that. I do not believe any man on the planet can summarize how a man thinks/feels/behaves. So I do not believe a woman who thinks she is a man is able to describe how she knows what a man thinks/feels/behaves. I'd be very interested to hear her description, though. My guess is that no two people would provide the same answers. This is why I believe it all boils down to confusion and body image issues. Anyone who thinks they are the wrong gender in their body is overthinking the issue and giving themselves a complex.

This is why I am so interested to know how transgenders are so *sure* they are what they think they are. What is their foundation? How are they so certain? What is their frame of reference?

That is why I am interested to know how you are so sure you are a woman. You must obviously know how a woman thinks/feels/behaves in order to have convinced yourself. Based on the life story you have shared, you knew as early as 5 years old(?)


I'm here to educate and inform and help people become aware of and understand these things. Why are you here?


See above. Educate me, instead of insulting.


It sure seems to me just to spread your opinions and negativity and other ignorant anti-trans bullcrap.


And I think you are misguided and confused. Takes all kinds.
edit on 26-6-2016 by Teikiatsu because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 01:13 AM
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a reply to: jasminnne

The details really are no concern of mine.



posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 01:39 AM
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a reply to: Phage

I would think the details would be important. It's the difference between having a man made hole that you have to treat and hold open for a while each day to keep from healing and an actual vagina. I thought they wanted to be as close to a biological female as possible. Still it's not possible to become one.



posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 01:40 AM
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a reply to: jasminnne




I would think the details would be important.

Not to me. Like I said.
I don't really care about the details of boob jobs either.


edit on 6/26/2016 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 01:49 AM
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a reply to: Phage
A female that knows she is female and wants bigger breasts is not the same as a person whose brain tells them they are the wrong sex so they take hormones and get their penis turned inside out and demand to be called male when they are not female.



posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 01:53 AM
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a reply to: jasminnne
Both are uncomfortable with their bodies and both undergo surgery to remedy that.



posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 02:55 AM
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originally posted by: Teikiatsu
And I think you are misguided and confused.

Then why would you be interested in or listen to anything I had to say? I've been misguided and confused for sixty-one and a half years. Certainly saying more is not worth your bother or my time. Amiright?


How would I know that? I'm a man.

And obviously one that lacks insight and awareness of the world and people around them. I'm sure you have some idea of how you think women think and feel. At least for Ketusko's sake anyway I would hope so.


--While you're at it, why don't you share how a man thinks/feels and behaves. Excuse me if I am making an assumption that you think you are a man.

Thanks for asking! I am indeed a man, but I don't think there is any answer to your question.

Wait. This was your question turned around and you don't think there is an answer? Why ask such a stupid thing then?


I don't believe we are internal genders. I have said before that I believe we are all genderless consciousnesses wrapped in meat shells. (Not very romantic, I know.) I am aware of my 'maleness' because of my anatomy and hormonal responses. Beyond that, I am an individual. My compiled life schemas are totally different from any other man on this planet, and I am comfortable with that.

I do not believe any man on the planet can summarize how a man thinks/feels/behaves.

And again, why do you think anyone else could?


So I do not believe a woman who thinks she is a man is able to describe how she knows what a man thinks/feels/behaves.

He wouldn't have to know what a man thinks, he knows how he thinks.


Anyone who thinks they are the wrong gender in their body is overthinking the issue and giving themselves a complex.

Well thank you for your professional diagnosis, Doctor. I'm sure everyone will go home happy knowing that gender dysphoria comes from "thinking too much".


That is why I am interested to know how you are so sure you are a woman. You must obviously know how a woman thinks/feels/behaves in order to have convinced yourself.

I feel absolutely no need to play your silly game or to justify or defend myself to you whatsoever. I know how I think and feel and I know how others perceive and react to me.


Based on the life story you have shared, you knew as early as 5 years old(?)

And your point is? I have no memories whatsoever of ever thinking of myself as a boy and this is far from an internal perception as my early years made quite clear. I have never been confused about my gender or who I am. After a young lifetime of bullying, ridicule and abuse because according to others I didn't look/think or act like a boy, it took until I was a sophomore in high school when I was 14 or 15 and I was savagely beaten and hospitalized after a homophobic attack by a gang of boys that my parents finally began to let go of their "son". At 16 and 17, most people outside of the school environment, like at shops and cafes thought I was a girl and not from what I was wearing or how I looked but because of my personality and who I am. After my "incident", I never left home unescorted except to go to school as the threat of more violence scared my folks to death and they even got me a car because it was safer than walking alone to school. Broken bones and stitches and having to deal with the cops was good for something, right?

Having a car at 16 also gave me the opportunity to go home at lunch and use the bathroom. There was not one on campus where I didn't feel threatened or one that I wasn't going to get in trouble for using. My last year of high school, with long blond hair almost to my waist that had been growing since the 3rd grade and a kind of feminine leaning androgynous style was not so bad and most people had kind of gotten over the fact of my existence. After graduation at 18 (1973), I changed my name, upgraded my presentation a bit and began HRT. I was not a different person than I ever had been. I didn't even look much different but the world suddenly became a much safer place that I fit into much better.

My parents, that I once thought were terrible monsters for making me dress like a boy and constantly pointing out I wasn't really coming across as one became surprisingly supportive because they knew this was the only path for me and nothing else made sense. They were ahead of the times and for their affirming love and care, I am eternally grateful. Had I been born within the last 20 years, I could have transitioned as a child, grown up more "normal" and avoided a hella ton of crap I had to go through that it kills me to see kids still go through today. Had I been born with a vagina I would have had none of these childhood problems nor had to do hormones and surgeries and all that crap to have the right body that matches who I am.

From that time on, I've lived my life as a young woman that is now an old woman and life has been good, great and amazing in fact. I don't have to think about what I am or if I'm thinking/feeling and acting according to prescribed notion that all women think, feel and act a certain way. All I can say is I know how I do all those things. I cant speak for what's in other people's minds.

a reply to: jasminnne
I'm sorry. I'm giving up on you. I'm sure you'll find plenty of like minded folks equally as willfully ignorant around here.

Cheers!


edit on 6/26/2016 by Freija because: typing past my bedtime



posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 03:34 AM
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a reply to: jasminnne


A female that knows she is female


Is what's the same in a trans female and a non trans female.
Their brain does not tells them they are the wrong sex any more then a non trans female brain tells them they are the wrong sex.
Its the body that their brain tells them are the wrong sex.
If its a trans male , his brain tells him that his body is not body that a male supposed to have.



I wonder if the person were to grow up without people , not knowing that diffrent genders have diffrent bodies or even know that there are genders , if they will notice a problem.



posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 04:01 PM
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a reply to: dude1




If its a trans male , his brain tells him that his body is not body that a male supposed to have.


So the brain IS telling them they are the wrong sex. Ok. That is what I said.



posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 04:04 PM
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a reply to: Phage

They are not just uncomfortable with their bodies they want to become a different sex and be treated as that sex even though they are not and can never be.
Females that get breasts surgery are not uncomfortable with their entire bodies and sex. They just want different breasts. Women have breasts. Small or big.



posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 04:30 PM
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a reply to: Freija


And obviously one that lacks insight and awareness of the world and people around them. I'm sure you have some idea of how you think women think and feel. At least for Ketusko's sake anyway I would hope so.


Point of order: He knows how I think and feel, but I am not a stereotypical woman. If he treated me like one, I would never have married him because I would not have been interested.

He treats me like myself, and anyone who wants a deep, interpersonal relationship with another person is best served to do the same: treat them like who they are and not what you perceive them to be.

And when I say that, I am not referring to issues related to being a transperson. I am talking about issues related to being who you are as a person. If you are not satisfied and comfortable with that, trying to force other people to be comfortable with something you aren't happy with isn't going to solve things.

So who are you? I sure can't say what "woman" is because from what I've experienced in life, I am not what most people typically think of as one, but at the same time, I sure haven't conned myself into thinking that makes me a man, either.



posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 04:47 PM
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originally posted by: Freija
Then why would you be interested in or listen to anything I had to say? I've been misguided and confused for sixty-one and a half years. Certainly saying more is not worth your bother or my time. Amiright?


Actually, that is where you are wrong. I am very interested on your perspective and especially in how you are so certain you know how a woman should think/feel/behave.


And obviously one that lacks insight and awareness of the world and people around them.


I am very aware of the individuals in my life. Friends, family, co-workers. Gay or straight, male or female, child or adult. They are all their own person and it is great to know them all and watch them individually develop. The same goes here on ATS. Even for you.


I'm sure you have some idea of how you think women think and feel. At least for Ketusko's sake anyway I would hope so.


Why? How am I supposed to treat her? Again, she is an individual, not a fem-clone.




And again, why do you think anyone else could (summarize how a man thinks/feels/behaves.)?


Because they are the ones who are so dang sure they are a man. Remember, that is what I am questioning. Not what it means to be a man, but how women who think they are men trapped in women's bodies are so certain of their opinion. What is their point of reference?


(S)He wouldn't have to know what a man thinks, (s)he knows how he thinks.


But that does not explain how she knows she is a man. It only says she has convinced herself of something. In this case, that she is a man.


Well thank you for your professional diagnosis, Doctor. I'm sure everyone will go home happy knowing that gender dysphoria comes from "thinking too much".


Happy to help!



I feel absolutely no need to play your silly game or to justify or defend myself to you whatsoever. I know how I think and feel and I know how others perceive and react to me.


So I've lost count... I think this is at least my third try to get you to describe how you know. And I come back with the assumption that you cannot describe how a woman thinks/feels/behaves. As you say, you have been believing it for 61 years so I figure you should be able to share your knowledge.



I have no memories whatsoever of ever thinking of myself as a boy


Oddly, neither do I.


I have never been confused about my gender or who I am.


A point we will continue to differ on.

Again, I am sorry to hear about the violence in your life. No one should have to go through that.


At 16 and 17, most people outside of the school environment, like at shops and cafes thought I was a girl and not from what I was wearing or how I looked but because of my personality and who I am.


Did they tell you that?


Broken bones and stitches and having to deal with the cops was good for something, right?


Were those assholes at least expelled and/or sent to juvie?


My last year of high school, with long blond hair almost to my waist that had been growing since the 3rd grade


Kids naturally pick on the outsider based on visual cues. Something like a guy with long hair is going to be noticed, especially in the 60's. Not even most women grow their hair that long. It doesn't excuse violence, of course.


I didn't even look much different but the world suddenly became a much safer place that I fit into much better.


Getting out of high school is usually a beneficial turning point for the ostracized outsiders. I hated high school too. I got beat up a few times as well, but nothing to what you described.


compress the rest


Still not seeing anything that says you knew you were a woman, just that you are more comfortable with your current body image. I know you think that makes me sound like an asshole, but I figure honesty is better than a facade.

There is nothing wrong with finding our comfort zones.

There is something wrong with forcing other people to accept our comforts zone under penalty of government force.
edit on 26-6-2016 by Teikiatsu because: added last two lines



posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 05:20 PM
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originally posted by: jasminnne
a reply to: dude1




If its a trans male , his brain tells him that his body is not body that a male supposed to have.


So the brain IS telling them they are the wrong sex. Ok. That is what I said.


First understand the difference between Gender and Sex.

Sex is the physical body.

Gender is who you are.

Your brain tells you you are female , but your sex (physical body) is male. (or male/female)

That would be Gender Dysphoria. Not a disorder. A natural occurring physical difference from majority.



posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 05:29 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
I am talking about issues related to being who you are as a person. If you are not satisfied and comfortable with that, trying to force other people to be comfortable with something you aren't happy with isn't going to solve things.



Who's the one obsessed with this subject?

Who's the one who keeps trying to force his ignorant opinion on people?

Then who's the one who provides legitimate articles and links from professionals in this field - - so people can learn?



posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 07:45 PM
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a reply to: Annee

So the brain is telling them their body is the wrong sex. Correct. They feel the body is not matching the brain. Sounds like a disorder.

"The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) categorizes specific dysphoria in the obsessive–compulsive spectrum."



posted on Jun, 26 2016 @ 08:43 PM
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originally posted by: jasminnne
a reply to: Annee

So the brain is telling them their body is the wrong sex. Correct.


NO.

Try reading words exactly as posted.



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