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Dems stage sit-in on House floor to push for gun vote

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posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 10:33 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Well I think the focus on guns is disengenius.

I think it's a rally cry with no substance.

Mentally ill still get bad care, schools still become more like prisons and critical thinking still is abandoned, the poor still are forgotten, drug addiction still has no relief, organized crime still controls sections of cities, law enforcement corruption still stands, law enforcement investigation will still suck, etc.

The proposals most likely will literally do statistically nothing to gun violence.




posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 10:38 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Gryphon66

Well I think the focus on guns is disengenius.

I think it's a rally cry with no substance.

Mentally ill still get bad care, schools still become more like prisons and critical thinking still is abandoned, the poor still are forgotten, drug addiction still has no relief, organized crime still controls sections of cities, law enforcement corruption still stands, law enforcement investigation will still suck, etc.

The proposals most likely will literally do statistically nothing to gun violence.


Nope, sorry, we completely agree.

Now is an absolutely stupid time politically for the Democrats to blow up on gun control. There are hundreds of issues facing us that are thousands of times more important. Job creation would be my top interest.



posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 10:50 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Ok.

I think I just caught you pointing out fallacy and not promoting an idea.

I have been so pissed off about this lately.

Literally the same weekend nice looking night club goers were killed proportionately the same number within three days of poor people were killed. Though I saw nothing about it. No vigils no back stories or time magazine articles.

I understand the gay community being upset. If Italians were targeted they would be too. It's just come on. Let's be real here people are not dying by the thousands from rifles with scary handles. They are dying fighting for scraps with concealable weapons in most cases.

I am an avid shooter by the way. I enjoy marksmanship. Occasionally do some really silly macho things like three gun races. Which leads me to hand guns. I have a ccl. The test is bull st if you think that prepares somebody to draw a weapon say in a library at UT or even just a crowded street. Tactical sidearm training is actual work and there are far too many chest thumpers talking about saving the day with their 3" concealed carry .380 (as a metaphore)
So I would be willing to consider some marksmanship training expansion if you want a ccl and possibly have a national discussion about having a ccl like marksmanship training and safety course for handguns in general. Will be skewered for saying this but I know a lot of target and gun enthusiasts who say the same. If you actually fire hand guns regularly you know how hard it really is. Especially a low profile site cc gun.

Maybe that's a way to find illegal guns? Probably not acceptable to many and thats why I said a discussion should be had.
edit on 23-6-2016 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 10:58 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

On the job front.

Currently 6.8 million open jobs.

Most conservative estimate of unemployment I can find is 8.3 million. Higher end 30 million

109 million on welfare.
I don't know do the math see if people are really just simply lazy.

Those 6.8 are not career jobs. That is total. Like Walmart and MC D



posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 11:49 PM
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originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Gryphon66

I think I just caught you pointing out fallacy and not promoting an idea.


Yeah, I do that a lot, sadly.

Here's the closest thing to my real take on it. We are a gun culture in this country. It's a part of our cultural identity.

Some but not all of what these guys maintain is true. The ability to own and carry a firearm in this country is one of our fundamental rights. Rights come with limitations and more importantly responsibilities. I would argue that the real meaning of the 2nd in the modern world is not just that you have whatever toys you want but that one is, as one was intended to be, a "well-regulated" part of the safety of our communities as surely as our personal defense or sport.

I like your phrase "chest thumpers" ... I've met a few of those. Too many.



posted on Jun, 23 2016 @ 11:58 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Nah I do it too.


You know your supposed to have a gay agenda and be a leftist I can put in a box but it seems like your just a person with individual thought.

I am confused as to how I am supposed to make fun of you.



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 01:26 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Wolfenz

Are you aware that the fasces is an ancient symbol of unity and strength that the Italian Fascists co-opted?

Are you aware that possible puns in regard to the US Congress with the Latin word feces is purely coincidental?


Of course im aware

The American Government system is bides of a system of Roman Law. same as the British

and its not Only Strictly Fascism, it represents, Empire , Imperialism, Divide and Conquer
the unity is from Conquered Nations built to a Puppet state to become as One to Strengthen the Empire.
that's what it come down too ..

So Your Point is ?




All Roads lead to Rome

are you AWARE of the Term?

are you Aware .. what the Eagle Symbols Originally came from ?



We are Part of the Team and it shows !


Do i have a Problem with it ??

Not the Slightest......





we can play this charade all day


edit on 52016FridayfAmerica/Chicago6175 by Wolfenz because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 01:41 AM
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a reply to: luthier

The real reason we will not have a Constitutional Convention on guns is the same reason why SCOTUS has bypassed and refused to hear any cases.

Both sides are scared of the outcome.

SCOTUS
If the Liberals win that could strip people of more guns. (Or worst case start an armed revolt. )
If the Conservatives win then then the Liberals lose and chance at a "ban"

Convention:
If the Liberals win then at worst case ALL gun could be banned. (Armed revolt would almost defiantly happen then.)
If the Conservatives win then more then likely all the current gun laws would be revoked.

SO both sides are scared of the outcome or ether of these.

OK a moderate outcome COULD be reached, but with the tension on this issue the likely hood of that is not good.



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 01:51 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: xuenchen
Good article showing the 25 hour timeline ....

Democrats End Sit-In Demanding A Gun Control Vote After More Than 25 Hours

They want the GUNS





Prove it. Where's the Gun Seizure Act of 2016?


yeah I Agree ... where is it ?

Well Folks of ATS .. DO NOT Forget what Happend in the Beginning of Nazi Germany...

after the Reichstag's Fire ..... A Law Act that came to Pass forcefully ..

and Act that Restricted Communications Phones and Firearms and more Less Privacy
and everyone was consider a Suspect,
if they refused to go by the Rules and Regulations of the Act

and the Act was Called the Enabling Act of 1933

American had a somewhat Similar Act during the Cold war ( the RED SCARE )

That Act was called the The International Security Act of 1950 and when McCarthyism came
it became the McCarran Act

For those that Dont Know I would consider you's to Research it

The Patriot Act as we all Know is Partially derived from those 2 Acts

The Names just had Changed from Communist to Terrorist

Gun Restriction will lead us into the Slaughter Cart

its all planned its all rigged

One High ranking Member of the Pentagon Exposed this a Decade and a half ago..
on national Television...

General Wesley Clark: Wars Were Planned - Seven Countries In Five Years
www.youtube.com...




General Wesley Clark:

Because I had been through the Pentagon right after 9/11. About ten days after 9/11, I went through the Pentagon and I saw Secretary Rumsfeld and Deputy Secretary Wolfowitz.

I went downstairs just to say hello to some of the people on the Joint Staff who used to work for me, and one of the generals called me in. He said, "Sir, you've got to come in and talk to me a second." I said, "Well, you're too busy." He said, "No, no."

He says, "We've made the decision we're going to war with Iraq." This was on or about the 20th of September. I said, "We're going to war with Iraq? Why?" He said, "I don't know." He said, "I guess they don't know what else to do." So I said, "Well, did they find some information connecting Saddam to al-Qaeda?" He said, "No, no." He says, "There's nothing new that way. They just made the decision to go to war with Iraq." He said, "I guess it's like we don't know what to do about terrorists, but we've got a good military and we can take down governments." And he said, "I guess if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem has to look like a nail."

So I came back to see him a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, "Are we still going to war with Iraq?" And he said, "Oh, it's worse than that." He reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. And he said, "I just got this down from upstairs" -- meaning the Secretary of Defense's office -- "today." And he said, "

This is a memo that describes how we're going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran." I said, "Is it classified?" He said, "Yes, sir." I said, "Well, don't show it to me." And I saw him a year or so ago, and I said, "You remember that?" He said, "Sir, I didn't show you that memo! I didn't show it to you!"



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 02:06 AM
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Wheres officer John Pike from UC Davis when you need him?

UC Davis pepper spray incedent
edit on 24-6-2016 by Alchemst7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 02:30 AM
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edit on 24-6-2016 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 06:55 AM
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originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: butcherguy

I'm not a gungrabber.

Speaking of simple: You say that guns make us safer. I asked for the statistic that proves that. The statistic I gave does not.

It's not a matter of my "not being able to grasp it" ... drop the silly attempts to insult. Makes your case look weak.

Did I say that guns make us safer?


Did I say that they don't?

That answer is not relevant.
You blamed me for saying that guns make us safer.


Free free to quote your complaint to me.

Or feel free drop it; this is not the topic of this thread ... and sounds ... personal.

I did quote it to you in this post:
My ATS Post
Not really complaining.
Just calling you a liar.
Here is the post.... the reason that I asked for proof of me making such a statement:



Speaking of simple: You say that guns make us safer. I asked for the statistic that proves that. The statistic I gave does not.

I highlighted the important part in red.
Here is a link to what you posted: Your ATS Post

And you are one to tell people about being off topic... You have been off topic for a lot of the thread.


edit on b000000302016-06-24T06:56:33-05:0006America/ChicagoFri, 24 Jun 2016 06:56:33 -0500600000016 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 07:32 AM
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a reply to: butcherguy

You have a point. You didn't say "guns make us safer" you said "if guns don't make us safer."

I see that I was technically mistaken. I am corrected and justly so. That's why it's handy to quote something directly.

I'm off-topic in your opinion? Are you on topic by pointing that out?



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 08:24 AM
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I think this thread points to a very important focus for our Congress to take up when they get back from their "summer break."

The Terrorism Watchlist (or to be more precise, the Terrorist Screening Database) process needs to be fixed immediately.

For any American to be deprived of their Constitutional rights must be one of our greatest concerns as a nation, and deserves our constant vigilance.

That said, in my opinion, there is nothing in the idea that a) all gun sales in this country be subject to a background check and b) all gun sales be recorded in a national database takes away from the Second Amendment.

Further, if someone is a terror suspect under a revised Terrorist Screening Database, there is absolutely no reason their purchase of firearms should not be impeded or restricted.



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 08:57 AM
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a reply to: Gryphon66



For any American to be deprived of their Constitutional rights must be one of our greatest concerns as a nation, and deserves our constant vigilance.

I agree with you.

Especially when we have a that Supreme Court rules in support of racism. Things could get very scary.



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 11:45 AM
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I have not read the whole OP but I feel one point is being missed here. When a group plans and executes an effort to interfere or stop the function of government it is sedition! Sedition is a very serious charge that comes with long prison sentences. The elected leaders of the congress were barred from performing governmental duties by Democrats who forcibly took over. They illegally held control of the congress for 21 hours and vow to continue these activities when they return after summer break.

Their behavior has overshadowed the whole and sole reason of the congressional session. They choose to solicit campaign funds to keep their sorry asses in office.

The whole event makes me feel dirty and ashamed of our government.



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 11:47 AM
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originally posted by: buddah6
I have not read the whole OP but I feel one point is being missed here. When a group plans and executes an effort to interfere or stop the function of government it is sedition! Sedition is a very serious charge that comes with long prison sentences. The elected leaders of the congress were barred from performing governmental duties by Democrats who forcibly took over. They illegally held control of the congress for 21 hours and vow to continue these activities when they return after summer break.

Their behavior has overshadowed the whole and sole reason of the congressional session. They choose to solicit campaign funds to keep their sorry asses in office.

The whole event makes me feel dirty and ashamed of our government.


Were you also upset about the Republican government shut-downs?



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 03:52 PM
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a reply to: Gryphon66

Are you referring to the budget problems causing Obama to close things like the WW2 memorial? The Republicans were not huddled around the podium and blocking business.



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 04:08 PM
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Many people are being completely brainwashed by the media to a point thats sickening. Everyone is talking about the Brexit Referendum, but very few is speaking on substance. It is being stated that the UK has moved away from the European Union because of the immigrants crisis, and the destruction of Europe as overseered by President Obama and Hillary Clinton! Both of these politicians are responsible for the ongoing destruction in Europe, and hope to do the same thing to America. Has the Rothschilds loss their battle for their New World Order, or is this a checkmate move alarming that a world-wide pandemic is not far from occurring, which plays into their plans? Whatever is going on, American states like Pennsylvania, Connecticut, and others, is using this time to remove guns from Americans. They claim that Americans should not be equipped with automatic AR-15 weapons, but many many foreign muslims and hispanics own these guns in America. If Americans take a look at what occurred in Ferguson, Missouri, during the riots, CNN showed a hispanic male standing in front a store that was looted, holding a AR-15. Several friends have been invited in homes that were owned by foreign muslims, and they witrnessed arsenals containing both machine guns and AR-15's.
But for some reason, African Americans are being targeted for guns as small as 22 pistols. The U.S. Government is making saure that African Americans aren't capable of protecting themselves when the civil war, if you want to call it that, starts. Euro-Americans are also being targeted for their many guns. Yet, noone is messing with hispanics or foreigners who have a stockpile of arsenals. Britain's move from the EU can either be a blow against the New World Order, or a prediction for whats about to happen. CNN reported that very few immigrants were inside Britain, right? So whats the real 411? Why is Euro-Americans and African Americans being targeted so intensely in Philadelphia, Wilkes Barre, and in Kingston, Pennsylvania? Why is police targeting Americans in North Carolina, but isn't bothering those who has real arsenals to cause major chaos within the U.S.? Unfortunately, the people of this country have now succumbed to the programming of divisive philosophies that have undermined our ability to live with one another. It is also disconcerting to realize that even in the face of our dysfunctional attitudes in the United States, there are those who still believe that we as a people are healthy enough to take in refugees that could become a potential problem country wide.
Take for an instance, tne mass shooting in Orlado, Florida. This event is the worst mass murder event in the United States since the September 11th attacks in 2001. The questions of course range from was it a hate crime, to was it an act of terrorism. We know that everyone wants to jump on the terrorism idea because it appears that Mateen was Muslim. However, it is unclear as to whether or not he was under the direction of ISIS, or some other terrorist outfit, even though it is alleged that he called 911, and told the dispatchers that he pledged allegiance to the terrorist organization. When events like this happen, there are a lot words that are thrown around without forethought and that is Lone Wolf, False Flag, and Terrorism. Also keep in mind that many Euro-Americans and African Americans have been charged with terroristic threat charges alot in 2016. It is like a programmed response which means the media has done their job in creating buzz words that are used as trigger phrases in their Newspeak. There are knee-jerk responses on the internet the government does not acknowledge terrorism enough. That they call it something else or that Obama avoids the issue because he is secretly Muslim or some other reason.
Well, there are classic models of terrorism that do not have to include Muslim extremism. In the case of the Orlando shootings, we have an example of extremism, but is it directly intended to be terrorism in the classic sense. In the classical model of terrorism, the objective is to instill fear along with causing death and injury. Terrorists want the survivors fear converted into action aimed at changing government policy. Terrorism is used to create fear in the civilian population of the state in the hope it will demand a change in foreign or domestic policy. Terrorism has been strategically redefined by the United States and its allies in such a way that it can apply only to their enemies, even when there are domestic terrorists that commit crimes here in this country. Omar Mateen was an American citizen who happens to be Muslim. It is said that we are not at war with Islam, that Islam is not our enemy, does this mean Mateen was just a mass murderer, a homegrown terrorist, or just a man who committed a massive hate crime against the LGBT community? This crime creates a massive strategy of tension because it appears to be that a person in a so-called protective class attacks a bar where many of the patrons are part of a protective class. It is a multi-layered event that augments the perfect political storm. It’s a gay issue, it’s a gun issue, it’s a Muslim issue, it’s a political issue, it’s hate, it’s terror, it’s internet; it’s a false flag.
It is all of the above, and it is created an opportunity to discuss the issue of blocking information on the internet, and gun control. These were the two issues we explored last week with the Bill H.R.5181 and the Ninth Circuit Court ruling that the general public does not have the constitutional right to carry a concealed weapon. Now the timing couldn’t be better to have these issues approved by the American people. The media is always clever enough to bring up questions about how Mateen was radicalized and that the internet played an intricate role. They also exploit the gun issue and now that we have achieved the biggest death toll from a lone wolf, who was both Bipolar and Muslim. We are sure medical records will be required to be cross-reference during a gun purchase. The media now does a great job of grooming people in order to prepare them for the stripping of rights. They also appear to be self-censoring everything in order to not offend Muslims and not offend the LGBT community, another reason why this is a perfect storm. Homosexuals, in general, are not loved by extreme Christians; something they share with militant Muslims. In fact, an imam speaking in Orlando last April said that killing gays, according to Islamic law, should be done out of compassion.
In 2014, Musab Masmari admitted to starting a fire inside Neighbors Nightclub during the first minutes of 2014 at a New Year’s Eve party. Masmari was caught on camera setting fire to a rear stairwell at Neighbors, a large, gay nightclub. It is also interesting to note that another would be shooter and bomber was apprehended at the Gay Pride parade in Los Angeles on Sunday. He wasn’t Muslim, but would he have been another terrorist? It is obvious he was a copycat, something that the media creates. When the media leads their stories with announcements that the Pulse shooting is America’s deadliest mass shooting, they are reaching out to other wannabe attackers to try and out do the death toll they report. It is obvious that arguments that are narrowed down to disarming American citizens and basically associating terrorism with one religion are becoming tedious. Can we realize that prejudices can kill and suspicion can destroy, and



posted on Jun, 24 2016 @ 04:09 PM
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When dealing with killers or murder stories, many people describe the suspect as friendly, or a quiet guy. There would always be the one who would say, he or she was a great neighbor, or I just can’t believe he had it in him. In the case of the Orlando shooter, Omar Mateen, the situation is different. People who knew him say he was unhinged. He was a racist and a misogynist, and was most definitely, not religious. Daniel Gilroy, who had worked with Mateen for the firm G4S Security, said that he complained several times that he was dangerous. Mateen made racist, anti-Semitic, sexist, and anti-gay comments. He was always angry, sweating, just angry at the world, he told the Los Angeles Times in a separate interview. Gilroy added that Mateen once openly said he wished “he could kill all black people” after seeing a black man drive past him. He would lose his temper for no reason. He would kick walls and slap desks. Mateen’s ex-wife, Sitora Yusifiy, told reporters he was a very violent person, saying she filed for divorce from him. He would beat her for no reason.
The FBI launched an investigation against him, one in 2013, and another in 2014, but authorities eventually cleared him for a concealed weapons carry permit in Florida as he worked for a security guard for G4S. That is convenient considering the recent Ninth Circuit Court decision. The media has attempted to draw attention to the FBI connections only to be sidetracked by reports that he was radicalized be visiting sites on the internet. Once again, a convenient grooming for the ratifying H.R. 5181 The Countering Foreign Propaganda and Disinformation Act of 2016, two issues that were covered just days before this traggic event. In her political speech, Hillary Clinton stressed the idea of shutting down the internet, while Trump was saying that we shouldn’t let Muslim refugees through our borders. The U.S. has a little over 3 million Muslims within its borders, most of them citizens. Not only was Mateen a citizen, the San Bernardino shooter was also an American citizen, born and raised here. It is obvious that no one can tell who a Muslim extremist is by just looking at them, and the events in San Bernardino, the events in Orlando, the events in Brussels, and the recent events in Germany shows that the surveillance state is not working, and that it appears the FBI and other alphabet agencies let a few extremists slip through the cracks in order to create a tension strategy to push political agendas, we all lose. It is all so convenient.
Mateen was on the radar of law enforcement for some time which suggests a situation similar to the pre-9/11 warnings of an impending terrorist attack, which were downplayed by the authorities for reasons that are being derided as plain conspiracy theory. Police say that he was well-organized and well-prepared, which raises the unproven possibility that he either had help from international interests, or help from inside the country to carry out his murderous rampage. Witness testimony seems to play into that suggestion. According to heavily censored eyewitness reports, conveniently excised from the mainstream, there were likely several other radicalized perpetrators involved with the shooting. Witnesses suggest that he had help. One eyewitness to the attack, who was inside the nightclub when it happened, was giving his testimony to the attack, after being trapped inside the club, live on-air, to a mainstream news source when he was abruptly cut off after providing a crucial detail. The eyewitness said that during the attack there was a guy there that was trying to hold the door closed so that we couldn’t exit.
Another eyewitness that was inside the Pulse Nightclub when the attack occurred told reporters, I’m pretty sure it was more than one person, you know, like I said, I heard two guns going at the same time. The eyewitness said that the event lasted like eight minutes. Another crucial detail that the press is leaving out is that the shooter or shooters were initiating rapid fire; which means the weapons used were likely fully automatic. The witness said that he could smell the gun smoke in the air, and that the attackers were working together. It was not one shot at a time, but rather from a machine gun, another witness said, who eventually made it out of the club into the alleyway. Americans like instant answers, and they inevitably turn to government for quick fix solutions. We have to learn the harsh reality now and that is there are none. There are no solutions, only difficult realities and America is now like every other country and is no longer safe. Even if we were to get rid of the guns, the terrorists would use bombs, if they banned bombs; they would burn things down using matches and gasoline, and so on, and so on. The United States is a multi-national, multi-cultural entity. It has been growing since World War II, and with expansion of empire, comes those who don’t want us in their affairs. (The Saudis is paying multi-billions of dollars for Arabs in this country. One federal agents says that other foreigners are tied into massive amounts of money as well)
What this means is that we are going to have to live with these horrible acts happening all the time, everywhere. In the future, there will be countless horrific attacks equal to, if not worse than, what happened in Orlando. Why? Because they are effective for exploitation, and used for tension strategy in government operations. Make whatever emotional argument you want, but the truth is that the government takes power from these events. They tell us that the measures they want to take, gun control and internet control, will benefit the people. Here is a clue it benefits no one; only them. The government has allowed this to become the new normal and the majority of people have given their consent because the majority doesn’t want to implicate their government in matters such as these. So the answer will be declared by the people to level to the ground, all Muslim countries, and build huge walls, but no matter what we do terrorism, hate crime and murder will not stop. We need to stop living in the fantasy the government is making plans to protect us, and realize that all of the new laws made for our safety are there to control us.



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