Dems stage sit-in on House floor to push for gun vote

a reply to: Gryphon66

Yawn.

You really crack me up

Here, I want to watch your virtual head explode ...

You're off in the Land of Absurdity again from my perspective. When you come back, let me know

Your partisan obsessions are well-noted.

That trollish baiting has been noted as well.

Seems to be a pattern.

a reply to: neo96

May I suggest that if you find anything I post to be in violation of the T&C you merely exercise your rights as a member and ALERT! it for the mods? I'm sure they are more than capable.

There's no reason to spam the forum with such obvious attempts to censor and control the flow of conversation.

a reply to: Krakatoa

See I know though that the democratic gun control is not only unconstitutional it actually won't work. Which is the area I am choosing to deal with so that I can try and inspire debate as to how to address the problems which are serious and embarrassing.

To me the level of organized crime in the us is rediculous. Somehow because they mostly effect the poor we don't seem to think of these gangs as organized. Well when you read up on the portfolios of these guys they have the holdings of some small countries.

Blatant corruption and abuse of the poor by both parties.

A failure to give the families that don't take part in gang violence any relief is a major philosophical problem.

One of the only clear roles of government is to protect the bill of rights and property. Total failure for millions of poor everyday. (Everyone really but the poor it's actually deadly at much higher rate)

Now the terrorist crap we need to debate foreign policy and what it means to associate with declared foreign "entities".

I mean if a corperations can be a person a terrorist organization should be able to be treated as a soveriegn nation same with gangs. (I know different areas of law)

The process of declaring groups to be a sovereign terrorist group would also need due process.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Wolfenz

All that is well and good...but I remember standing up with modern day liberals against the warrant less wiretapping, terror watch lists, and the violation of not just constitutional rights, but governmental procedure outlined in the constitution itself.

Back then the cause of that crap was republican neocons.

Now liberals are screaming to use that very same apparatus to violate due process and strip the second amendment from law abiding citizens.


Quite frankly whatever good liberals did they are working pretty hard to undo it.

I Agree ... it seem like the Rolls have been Switched !

Commie Democrats or Nazi Republicans

yet There is two Fasce's on the Back Wall of the House of Representatives
and Both Democrats and Republicans Speakers were in front of it at the podiums ( rostrum )
with a ironic twist of decorations of hand-carved wreaths and inscriptions reading “Union,” “Justice,” “Tolerance,” “Liberty,” and “Peace” on its front.

Fasces At The U.S. House Of Representatives
ireport.cnn.com...


history.house.gov...

no one seems to bother, no one seem to care
at all about that..

a reply to: Wolfenz

Are you aware that the fasces is an ancient symbol of unity and strength that the Italian Fascists co-opted?

Are you aware that possible puns in regard to the US Congress with the Latin word feces is purely coincidental?

a reply to: luthier

I can understand where you are trying to go with this idea. However, if you are familiar with the group known as "Anonymous" you will understand more how ISIS (and a growing number of terror groups) are organized. They are intentionally decentralized. And, like Anonymous, have no outright membership list or roster. Anyone, at anytime can simply claim "I am with ISIS", and they are affiliated. Then, later, say, no, I am not with ISIS. There is no formal membership or other level of organization other than loose affiliations. Now, trying to declare war on a loose affiliation was attempted in America the 1950's with communism. Led by senator McCarthy, it was one of the darkest periods in recent history for freedom and justice. It affected not only those that openly declared ties to communism but those that merely sympathized with the idea. Then, it morphed further into merely knowing someone who was accused of sympathizing with a suspected communist was enough to completely ruin ones career or even life.

It was a modern witch hunt based upon lies, suspicion, and back-stabbing politics. People that were accused included your business competitors or others that you simply wanted to get revenge upon for example. No, I do not think we need to go down that path again. I highly recommend you read up on that era, and the damage and shame it wrought like a virus throughout families and decent Americans.

Let us learn form history, not repeat it just because we are afraid. We need to face the fear, not let political correctness cloud our vision either. Think about who benefits most from us being afraid to speak out for fear of being labeled a racist? The terrorists do. I truly believe there and has been a concerted effort to push the PC agenda by those who sympathize with terror groups. But, with no hard evidence, I would never call for their imprisonment or investigations. That would be repeating that which I have spoken against.

Education is the solution. Education of the young about firearms, their use, and teaching a healthy respect for them. That is where we should be laser focused IMO.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: projectvxn

Quite frankly whatever good liberals did they are working pretty hard to undo it.

I see liberals in this thread and on other social media disagreeing with the Dem Party on gun control and methodologies... blanket statements won't do well to encourage standing together again.

I fully realize that there are liberals who not only oppose what the dems are doing today, but some are staunch gun rights supporters. I know a few. It's the people who want universal healthcare AND AR15s with 30 round mags.

They are NOT the majority of liberals.

There's a few republicans who support marriage equality as well. S.E Cupp comes to mind.

But that isn't the status quo for the party.

a reply to: projectvxn

Then why the blanket statement? I'm not trying to pick on you or single you out... I just really liked your post until that last line.

Sit-in is already over. What happened to them vowing to stay until something was done?

Did anyone else notice how staged all this was? Professionally printed signs, posters, podium placers, ect with the hastags and slogans...

Media moving around and covering the end of the sit-in like a prepared broadcast with a script.


Disgusting.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Your really just making a straw man here.

I am well aware of the communist whitch hunt.

Communism as far as America was concerned was a philosophical threat not a physical one.

The us was concerned with people trading information and inspiring Communist rebellion through thought for the most part.

Isis however has declared aand created physical war and has the sole intention of doing so. They don't want to come convert us to vote them into power they want to convert a few of us to kill as many Americans as possible.

This is where you are correct eduction is needed because people need to understand the differences of intent and how the law interprets intent.

Decentralization has nothing to do with it.

What about the nazi's or any other war criminals? We just stopped looking for them once they left area?

You get caught associating or giving relief to the Islamic state you are a criminal if it can be proven. We are currently fighting the Islamic state. That is a fact. We are targeting and bombing the Islamic state. That is war.

We either need to stop targeting and killing the Islamic state members or treat anyone with a proveable connection as treasonous.

Otherwise your in bizzaro land where you re allowing recruits to live in the us and give relief to the people we are fighting.

So in any case we have a lot to talk about and debate. But it ain't happening. We seem to be staying the course as we go over the cliff.

a reply to: BIGPoJo
Well that was pathetic.

I agree with it being staged.

originally posted by: luthier
a reply to: Krakatoa

Your really just making a straw man here.

Perhaps you misunderstood. I was using it as an example of how something like declaring war on an idea or set of ideals can spiral out of control....that is all. My post was not meant to degrade or demean you in any way. I too want to do something to avoid another massacre. But, like you, I want it to be constitutional in its execution. This is not the time to rush into creating an even worse state of affairs that we are already in here.

So, considering the Islamic State is not really a sovereign nation (yet), we would need to address it on an individual basis, based upon actions and behaviors. Having an empathy for them would not be enough n its own. However, like pieces to a puzzle, if enough data and behaviors are documented, then perhaps the court system could provide a time-sensitive warrant (i.e. a reasonable time frame not to exceed XX days) that allows a more in-depth collection of communications (cellphone tap, ISP tap, etc...) with the goal of attempting to collect more puzzle pieces for THAT person. While this warrant is in effect, they will continue to have their rights in full, but with alert triggers in place to inform the investigators of any attempts to purchase a firearm or related items. This would provide the opportunity to increase direct surveillance as the risk has now increased. Local LEO's could be informed to be more vigilant on small infractions of the law to provide the ability to stop and search if another law hes been violated (a driving infraction is one such example here).

Thoughts?

originally posted by: BIGPoJo
Sit-in is already over. What happened to them vowing to stay until something was done?

Did anyone else notice how staged all this was? Professionally printed signs, posters, podium placers, ect with the hastags and slogans...

Media moving around and covering the end of the sit-in like a prepared broadcast with a script.


Disgusting.

and yet the republicans did the same thing in 2008 over expanded oil and gas drilling......using your word...disgusting.

a reply to: jimmyx

No Republicans did not do the 'same' thing.

That sit in was the LEFT trying to negate the entire BILL OF RIGHTS.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Well I think we have tried that. It doesn't work and things abroad are not getting better.

At some point your weighing out allowing this group to embed themselves so deeply that they can actually destroy the country. Especially just by knocking out say part of the grid and making people absolutely panic.

Now I am with you that fear can not be used to just throw dumb ideas out to throw something out. However there is a time when things re not getting better we need to really consider the danger.

The real work and tuning however I admit is in the actual intelligence gathering and analysis.

However you can't be essentially at war abroad with an ideology (that calls themselves a state again do they need official territory ?) And then harbour sympathizers who fit the definition of treason. It's just a logical paradox.

So we also need to stop bombing them if that's your take. It's not even out country over there. In your scenario just use drones to take out specific people who have targeted us soldiers or our allies.

If you have given money I think it's clear. You should be charged for being an accomplice to the crime. Like blowing up a 1500 year old historic site or murdering people and treason.

Hey maybe that's fascist but I don't think so if the practices has review and open debate.

I think requiring thousands and thousands of "detectives" to investigate the foreign fighters is silly but I understand why here for Americans.

House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) on Thursday dismissed the sit-in as "a political stunt" and "a fundraising scheme" designed to churn up campaign cash for Democrats during a high-stakes election year.

"If this is not a political stunt, then why are they trying to raise money off of this — off of a tragedy?" he asked reporters during a press briefing in the Capitol.

Fund rasing SCHEME.

Democrats in general used the Orlando shooting to push their perspective on gun control. Within hours after the shooting, President Barrack Obama announced that the problem was that too many people had easy access to weapons.

Dems Are Aggressively Fundraising Off The Orlando Terror Attack From The House Floor

California Democrat Fundraises Off of Orlando Shooting


17 Facts About The Orlando Shooter That Every American Should Know

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: BIGPoJo
Sit-in is already over. What happened to them vowing to stay until something was done?

Did anyone else notice how staged all this was? Professionally printed signs, posters, podium placers, ect with the hastags and slogans...

Media moving around and covering the end of the sit-in like a prepared broadcast with a script.


Disgusting.

and yet the republicans did the same thing in 2008 over expanded oil and gas drilling......using your word...disgusting.

But that was in favor of a program that was Constitutional and legal.

The gun laws are not.

originally posted by: neo96

House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) on Thursday dismissed the sit-in as "a political stunt" and "a fundraising scheme" designed to churn up campaign cash for Democrats during a high-stakes election year.

Let's compare that with ...

Washington Post -Charity president unhappy about Paul Ryan soup kitchen ‘photo op’

The head of a northeast Ohio charity says that the Romney campaign last week “ramrodded their way” into the group’s Youngstown soup kitchen so that GOP vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan could get his picture taken washing dishes in the dining hall.

He added: “The photo-op they did wasn't even accurate. He did nothing. He just came in here to get his picture taken at the dining hall.” Antal later told NBC News that Ryan had cleaned some dirty dishes; his original comment was based on secondhand information from a volunteer.

Hypocrisy, thy name is REPUBLICAN.

a reply to: neo96

I wonder if Republicans have ever used tragedy to push an agenda or fund raise. Hmmm.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Try again.

Armed guards protect Senate Democrats as they demand new gun-control laws

Hypocrisy.

DEMOCRATS.